Someone said in one of the other forums that they believed a particular type of Hudson was converted from a Mikado. This to me seems a little unlikely, though it could be possible. More likely it was suggested that a Pacific would have been converted. We know that the T1's(Reading's) had come from converting Consolidation's, anyone have any idea on any of these or other steam that was converted?
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From http://www.steamlocomotive.com :
"The Wabash Railroad, in need of passenger locomotives during World War II, coverted five of its older Class K-5 "Mikados" into 4-6-4s. These new locomotives, designated Class P-1 (road numbers 700 through 704), were rebuilt in the Decatur Shops during 1943 and 1944.
The five K-5s used to build these "Hudsons" were bought from the American Locomotive Company in 1925 and were the only three-cylinder 2-8-2s on the Wabash.
Later, in 1946 and 1947, a pair of the two cylinder Class K-5s were also converted into "Hudsons" and were assigned road numbers 705 and 706.
All seven of the Class P-1 "Hudsons" were scrapped in 1956."
Also:
The C&O "yellowbelly" Hudsons were converted from Pacifics.
The Illinois Central rebuilt 2-10-2's into 4-8-2's. The IC also rebuilt a 2-8-4 into a 4-6-4.
B&O converted some 2-8-0's into 0-8-0's.
The Frisco rebuilt seven 2-8-0's into 2-8-2's.
The "Thomas A Edison" 4-4-0 at Greenfield Village was rebuilt from an 0-4-0 by Ford's plant railroad's shop forces
Railroad shops: Their wonders to behold...
Rusty
N&W converted a W1 2-8-0 to a W5-W6 saddle tank 0-8-0 shop shifter.
I was about to bring up the Illinois Central Mountains, but Rusty beat me to it. For IC at least, this upgrading from a 2-10-2 to a 4-8-2 was not just a small batch or test bed. According to Steamlocomotive.com, this modification was made to 55 ~ 60 locos.
None of the major manufactures have done a scale, mainline, steam Illinois Central engine. Not sure what the interest would be, but I for one would purchase IC mountain.
Charlie
Don't forget the famous Reading T-1 4-8-4s, which were rebuilt from I-10sa class 2-8-0s.
From this:
To that:
Fascinating. When I get home(since I am at work) I will post this thread's link in the other forum just to show the person that thought correctly about the Mikado conversion to a Hudson.
Rather amazing, I really didn't think it would be possible to do so. Sort of wonder how they did it, put a whole new chassis underneath, do some modifications to the boiler, rework the valves, etc., etc. Be interesting to see.
I managed to actually see the special PBS ran on Sierra #3 a few years ago, and that really had me hooked, suppose watching something on converting one engine to another would be much the same.
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:
Rather amazing, I really didn't think it would be possible to do so. Sort of wonder how they did it, put a whole new chassis underneath, do some modifications to the boiler, rework the valves, etc., etc. Be interesting to see.
And they did it all without "Apps..."
Brain power, heavy machinery, skill, muscle and sweat.
Rusty
Remember that virtually all of the "conversions", as you referred to them, generally required a complete new cast steel frame, and a completely remanufactured boiler .
The B&O T-3 Mountains were rebuilt from older power, Mikes I think. To do this, the RR had to lengthen the boilers, which gave the T-3's a somewhat lean look between the stack and the sand dome (or is it a sand box?). I remember an old Trains article where Dave Morgan advised that not much else from the original engines was reused........
Much older, but the NYC rebuilt some 2-6-2's into Pacifics. The 2-6-2's were very fast but somewhat unstable (if you believe the various narratives) and this was attributed to the two wheel lead truck. The resultant Pacifics were not deemed successful.......
The MoPac rebuilt some older engines, 2-10-2's I think, into high speed Mountains. These were very successful.
SP converted Atlantics with 81" drivers into 0-8-0 switchers. I don't think they changed the boiler/cab.
I think the frame determines whether the rebuild is the "same" locomotive. The frame is kept, "same" loco. Different frame, different loco.
Ships, at least ones under sail, have a like tradition. Same keel and hull, same vessel even if the stuff above it changes. ELISSA in Galveston when through several changes, but she still has the same hull. She is as built condition, except for a radio room, and a diesel powered screw.
The ultimate conversions:
1. CF7
2. The Mexican kitbash in the RS11 body.
Conversions were not that uncommon, and often not just simple ones like converting 2-8-0s into 0-8-0 switchers, which was very common 100+ years back.
For example, Great Northern found their P-1 class 4-8-2 engines were too slow for passenger service, so they converted them to Q-2 class 2-10-2 freight engines. GN also converted their M-2 2-6-8-0 Mallets into O-7 class 2-8-2s; many were later converted into the O-8 class.
Also, let us not forget the Santa Fe 2-10-10-2's being rebuilt into 2-10-2's and the D&RGW standard gauge 2-8-0's being rebuilt into the 3' gauge K37 Mikado's.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:Also, let us not forget the Santa Fe 2-10-10-2's being rebuilt into 2-10-2's and the D&RGW standard gauge 2-8-0's being rebuilt into the 3' gauge K37 Mikado's.
Rusty
Rusty,
The Santa Fe 2-10-10-2's started as ten 2-10-2's, with new front engines supplied by Baldwin. After proving to be failures they were converted into twenty 2-10-2's.
Stuart
Stuart posted:Rusty Traque posted:Also, let us not forget the Santa Fe 2-10-10-2's being rebuilt into 2-10-2's and the D&RGW standard gauge 2-8-0's being rebuilt into the 3' gauge K37 Mikado's.
Rusty
Rusty,
The Santa Fe 2-10-10-2's started as ten 2-10-2's, with new front engines supplied by Baldwin. After proving to be failures they were converted into twenty 2-10-2's.
Stuart
The circle of life...
Rusty
Hot Water posted:Remember that virtually all of the "conversions", as you referred to them, generally required a complete new cast steel frame, and a completely remanufactured boiler .
Some of these "conversions" remind me of a story about an ax that had once been owned by Abraham Lincoln. The handle had only been replaced three times and the head twice.
Hot Water posted:Remember that virtually all of the "conversions", as you referred to them, generally required a complete new cast steel frame, and a completely remanufactured boiler .
I was once told that to call taking a steam engine boiler and replacing everything else a rebuild is akin to lifting the ladder off an old fire truck, placing it on a brand new chassis and saying it's a rebuilt one. Any old time CPA's on here that can tell us if they were called rebuilds for tax purposes?
Locomotive rebuilds have a long history. An 0-4-0 built in 1832 for the B&S was rebuilt into a 4-2-0 and later to an 0-6-0 before being scrapped in the 1850s. The rosters of the 19th century B&O and Pennsy had a number of rebuilds.
In the case of Santa Fe, nearly all steam yard switchers in use after 1920 were rebuilt from road engines.
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