STM2 and DZ1000 compatability?

The fastrack switch puts out -5 vdc for OUT and +5 vdc for THRU position. I believe the STM2 determines the switch position when it sees 0 volts or less for the OUT position and + 5 vdc or a maybe +2.5 to +5 vdc voltage for THRU. If your DZ puts out anything like that or you can use a relay to output something like that, you're good with the DZs.

I have an S gauge layout that is operated entirely from the LCS app on an iPad, Cab 2's and iCab apps on iPhones. The layout LCS system has 38 devices operating 50 turnouts, 20 uncouplers, 4 operating tracks, 25 switchable track blocks and about 10 miscellaneous structure lighting controllers. Eight of the turnouts are operated by a DZ2500. The STM2 reports their position but it requires a relay and a separate 5V power supply to perform that function. Lionel has posted the wiring for this here on the forum about 2 months ago. The Tortoise machines can be connected directly to the STM2. I do not know about using a DZ1000. 

Do not underestimate the time it takes to create the layout mimics in LCS along with all the operating devices and routes. I have six separate screens on the iPad to show all the track loops, yards and interchange tracks. When it is all done and working it is wonderful to have, there is no going back to manual controls. 

CJACK, mine uses a relay and a +5V power supply, so they see either 0 or 5V. I did not create this application, some very talented professionals got this all working. -5V appears to not be required. 

Yes I do remember that zero was good for OUT. I just meant if the DZ setup put out down to -5, that would be ok.

The DZ1000 should work easily, give me a few days to double check and draw up a connection diagram. 

SantaFeFan posted:

The DZ1000 should work easily, give me a few days to double check and draw up a connection diagram. 

In another topic, it was mentioned there was a wiring diagram posted for a STM2/DZ-2500 setup.  Just spent 1/2 hour looking for and could not find it.  Can someone re-post it or post a link to that topic?  Thanks.

CAPPilot posted:

SantaFeFan posted:

The DZ1000 should work easily, give me a few days to double check and draw up a connection diagram. 

In another topic, it was mentioned there was a wiring diagram posted for a STM2/DZ-2500 setup.  Just spent 1/2 hour looking for and could not find it.  Can someone re-post it or post a link to that topic?  Thanks.

I think I got this right...back in March I looked into this.

AmFlyer posted:

......The STM2 reports their position but it requires a relay and a separate 5V power supply to perform that function. Lionel has posted the wiring for this here on the forum about 2 months ago....

cjack posted:

CAPPilot posted:

SantaFeFan posted:

The DZ1000 should work easily, give me a few days to double check and draw up a connection diagram. 

In another topic, it was mentioned there was a wiring diagram posted for a STM2/DZ-2500 setup.  Just spent 1/2 hour looking for and could not find it.  Can someone re-post it or post a link to that topic?  Thanks.

I think I got this right...back in March I looked into this.

Chuck,

I have your drawing but have not tried it yet because I just got my STM2.

I was trying to understand Tom's comment.  Is the relay he is talking about the same as the DZ-1008 in your diagram?  Where is the separate 5v power supply come into play?  And lastly, did Lionel post a diagram a couple months ago, or is he talking about your diagram above?  Like the sensor track with TMCC engines, this sounds like a good idea when using LCS but it is getting too complicated.

Wonder how ERR's new DZ-2500 board fits into all of this?

CAPPilot posted:

AmFlyer posted:

......The STM2 reports their position but it requires a relay and a separate 5V power supply to perform that function. Lionel has posted the wiring for this here on the forum about 2 months ago....

cjack posted:

CAPPilot posted:

SantaFeFan posted:

The DZ1000 should work easily, give me a few days to double check and draw up a connection diagram. 

In another topic, it was mentioned there was a wiring diagram posted for a STM2/DZ-2500 setup.  Just spent 1/2 hour looking for and could not find it.  Can someone re-post it or post a link to that topic?  Thanks.

I think I got this right...back in March I looked into this.

Chuck,

I have your drawing but have not tried it yet because I just got my STM2.

I was trying to understand Tom's comment.  Is the relay he is talking about the same as the DZ-1008 in your diagram?  Where is the separate 5v power supply come into play?  And lastly, did Lionel post a diagram a couple months ago, or is he talking about your diagram above?  Like the sensor track with TMCC engines, this sounds like a good idea when using LCS but it is getting too complicated.

Wonder how ERR's new DZ-2500 board fits into all of this?

I think I posted this before, but I don't know if it is the one that was referred to in an above post. The relay shown in my drawing is the DZ1008 which I figured was compatible with the DZ stuff as far as if the DZ switch controllers would drive it or not. The 5 vdc supply is something you will have to come up with so you can drive the STM-2. You could even use 3 AAA cells since the drain from them is so low by the STM-2 which has a high impedance input. Also there are many AC to DC supplies that you can use off ebay these days and here is a link to one that I use routinely connected to my track 18 VAC. Make sure you set the output to around 4.5 vdc (a little less than 5 vdc for safety sake...we don't know what the limits of the Lionel stuff is) or so before you hook it up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-DC-...7:g:uEQAAOSwEeFU~UZH

I use these for Miller signs also along with a voltmeter ammeter module from ebay so I know what the voltage is staying at and the current of what I have connected.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162237...e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Here is a link to the original thread back in March.

https://ogrforum.com/t...84#55912195645486184

Sorry for the slow response, I have been on another business trip. This is the sketch I recall, CJACK is the man! The DZ1008 is the same relay I have. When at home I will look up the 5VDC supply we used. 

I apologize to the OP, this is becoming a DZ-2500 topic.

I've added Chuck's diagram to my switch DZ-2500 switch diagram and came up with this:

Is this correct?

I'll do the same for my DZ-1000 diagram.

Here is a copy of the wiring diagram for my layout. The three different power supplies are picked up on the 25 position accessory buss.

You may also want to see this wiring diagram as well For the LCS controls.

If you ever get into 2 rail AC (American Flyer) here is the wiring on the other side of the relay to control the frog "polarity."

Let us get back on topic (says the guy who took us off) - STM2 and DZ1000 compatibility?

I just reviewed the STM manual and it shows a wiring diagram for the Atlas switch plus ACS2.  Since the Atlas switch and the DZ-1000 are both 2-wire switches, shouldn't the same wiring setup work for the DZ-1000? 

AmFlyer posted:

Here is a copy of the wiring diagram for my layout. The three different power supplies are picked up on the 25 position accessory buss.

Tom,

Why do you have another relay besides the DZ-1008? Can the STM2 be directly connected to the DZ-1008? 

For Tortoise powered turnouts the second relay connects the turnout frog to the correct power terminal and also illuminates the red or green switch stand indicator lights. The DZ2500 turnouts have the red and green indicator lights built in but the frog still has to be powered in a 2 rail layout. The easiest way to do this is with both relays. I have not tried this in 3 rail, just the DZ1008 should work. The STM2 is looking for the presence or absence of the +5VDC to report back the position of the points.

AmFlyer posted:

For Tortoise powered turnouts the second relay connects the turnout frog to the correct power terminal and also illuminates the red or green switch stand indicator lights. The DZ2500 turnouts have the red and green indicator lights built in but the frog still has to be powered in a 2 rail layout. The easiest way to do this is with both relays. I have not tried this in 3 rail, just the DZ1008 should work. The STM2 is looking for the presence or absence of the +5VDC to report back the position of the points.

Tom,

That makes sense now why there are two relays. I think in 3-rail only the DZ-1008 would needed.

Boy, if Phoenixx101 (the OP) wants an answer to his DZ-1000 question he needs to start another topic; this has become a DZ-2500 topic.  I still think the wiring diagram in the STM2 manual for the Atlas switch plus ACS2 will work for the DZ-1000 wired through the ACS2.  Someone needs to give it a try.

As for the DZ-2500, below is how I think it should work  with the STM2.  I need to set this up and see what happens.  (NOTE: ignore the DZ-1008 used for closure rail power.)

The STM2 is looking for either a positive voltage (5 VDC) or zero voltage (or -).  For this, I have the STM2 wired to the DZ-1008 common (blue wire), and the DC power supply wired to N/O (white wire).  No input to N/C (gray wire).  Either green or yellow wire from the DZ-2500 can be attached to the green or yellow wire of the DZ-1008; use which ever combination gives the correct input on the LCS screen. 

Hopefully someone smarter than me will either say this is correct or not.

Hello Gentlemen, 

As I previously mentioned. I'm working on a project for my future layout. In the last week I have purchased a DZ-2500, DZ-1008A, Data Wire Driver, STM2, and SER2. This evening I set-up everything on my "bench" and tried to get the STM2 working with the DZ-2500 with DZ-1008A. Unfortunately, I was unable to get it to work. 

I followed CJack's diagram below. I connected the Common (blue wire) to position 1 of the STM2. My 5+ VDC was connected to the NC on DZ-1008A and  then the 5- VDC to NO on DZ-1008A went to the Switch Sense on the STM2 and was also connected to 5- VDC ground from the wall wart. I tried both the green or yellow wire from the DZ-1008A to the green wire on the DZ-2500. I also tried it with both the green and yellow both connected from the DC-1008A to the DZ-2500. The DZ-2500 works perfectly when thrown from the cab-2, iPad, or push button. I did program the STM2 as indicated in the manual and got no errors. The SW (green) light doesn't light-up at all when I throw the switch, but the STM2 is getting PDI commands (red light). 

Does anyone have an idea what might be the problem? This what I really need for this project is the STM2 properly working and sensing when the switch changes. 

Also, please note that the 5 VDC is coming from a 5V 2.5A wall wart. 

Thanks in advance for any help. 

Not sure why I drew only one green coming out of the DZ1008, but there is a green and a yellow and they go to the green and the yellow respectively on the DZ2500 and also to the antiderailing track rails on the switch. Is that what you have?

I have had both the green and yellow wires hooked up to the switch, but no luck. Now I have NO hooked to the com on the STM2, but where does the gnd from the 5v DC supply get tied to the circuit? 

crood58 posted:

Now I have NO hooked to the com on the STM2, but where does the gnd from the 5v DC supply get tied to the circuit? 

This was one of the questions I hoped would be answered in my diagram (2nd one) above.  I think the ground goes to the STM2 sense return but nobody has commented on that yet.  Hopefully we can get this to work because I really like the concept.

CAPPilot posted:

crood58 posted:

Now I have NO hooked to the com on the STM2, but where does the gnd from the 5v DC supply get tied to the circuit? 

This was one of the questions I hoped would be answered in my diagram (2nd one) above.  I think the ground goes to the STM2 sense return but nobody has commented on that yet.  Hopefully we can get this to work because I really like the concept.

From what I understand the STM2 is basically seeing if there are 0 to 5v. I originally hooked up the NO to position 1 on the STM2 then com on the DZ-1008A to 5v, and 5v gnd to com on STM2, but no go. That is with both green and yellow wires hooked up to DZ-2500

cjack posted:

Not sure why I drew only one green coming out of the DZ1008, but there is a green and a yellow and they go to the green and the yellow respectively on the DZ2500 and also to the antiderailing track rails on the switch. Is that what you have?

I see now why I used the green into the DZ1008 to switch the relay. Green is the wire that will toggle the DZ1008 on or off. The yellow wire in the DZ1008 is just passed thru to the fixed terminals.

The schematic of the DZ1008 is:

As you can see, Red is power to the relay coil and Green is the signal to the transistor that turns the relay on and off. So the extra 5 vdc supply should have it's positive +5 vdc connected to the NO contact on the DZ1008 and the minus side of the 5 vdc supply should be connected to the Com contact of the DZ1008 AND also connected to the SENSE RETURN of the STM-2.

My drawing shows either Green or Yellow coming from the original DZ Switch Circuit (which has it's own switch machine and DZ1008 as shown in CAPPilot's drawing) going to the Green on the EXTRA DZ1008 relay THAT we are adding to use the STM-2. The Green or Yellow from the Switch is decided as CAPPilot says in his diagram by which ever gives the correct result on the STM-2.

I didn't check the original DZ Switch Circuit in CAPPilot's drawing but assume it is a correct copy of the drawing for wiring up a DZ switch on the Z Stuff site.

In CAPPilots drawing my only correction would be to connect the 5 vdc Com wire that goes to our extra DZ1008 NO contact  also to the Sense Return on the STM-2.

My original drawing:

I should have drawn a wire from the DZ1008 NO contact to the STM-2 Sense Return. The STM-2 needs to see +5 or Com at it's Switch Sense terminal for the two conditions of the switch...and that comes from Com on the DZ1008 depending on whether the DZ1008 is energized or not from it's Green wire.

I think this all we can conjure from the information given by the various manufacturers of the components. I find the lack of schematics from both Lionel and Z Stuff to be very troublesome.

The STM-2 should show some result depending on the +5 or Gnd connected to it's Switch Sense terminal. If it doesn't change with the changing of the switch, then it is the fault of the Yellow or Green wires coming from the original DZ Switch Circuit not turning on our extra DZ1008 relay.

Chuck, 

I wired up the STM2 and the DZ-1008A as you indicated in your last post, but still no luck. Here is how I connected it. 

• NO: +5 VDC
• COM: -5 VDC & STM2 Sense Return 
• NC:  Position 1 on STM2 Switch Sense Terminal 

I'm unsure where I was suppose to connect the Switch Sense to. 

Chris 

crood58 posted:

Chuck, 

I wired up the STM2 and the DZ-1008A as you indicated in your last post, but still no luck. Here is how I connected it. 

• NO: +5 VDC
• COM: -5 VDC & STM2 Sense Return 
• NC:  Position 1 on STM2 Switch Sense Terminal 

I'm unsure where I was suppose to connect the Switch Sense to. 

Chris 

 

That's not what I diagrammed...

The Com on the relay gets connected to the Switch #1 Sense Terminal.

The NC on the relay gets the -5VDC and STM2 connection to Sense Return.

and what is correct is that the NO on the relay gets the +5 VDC

Looking at the hand drawn sketch above the DC(-) connection to the STM2 Sense return seems to be missing. It is the blue wire on the STM2 wiring diagram I posted about 10 posts above. Chris, this connection is listed as the second bullet item as (-)5V in your post but not on the wiring diagram if that is what you followed. The Sense return should be zero volts, not (-)5V, referenced to the (+)5V.

The Sense 1 position should see either an open circuit or (+)5V depending on which way the turnout is thrown. Trust that the STM2 ID is set and single wire mode is selected during the setup. 

I hope this is of some help. Mine are working reliably but I am using ASC2's to throw the turnouts. The iPad readout is always correct, matching the turnout position.

Chuck, just saw your post after I posted. Your description and the right hand drawing with the turnout shown should for sure work.

cjack posted:

crood58 posted:

Chuck, 

I wired up the STM2 and the DZ-1008A as you indicated in your last post, but still no luck. Here is how I connected it. 

• NO: +5 VDC
• COM: -5 VDC & STM2 Sense Return 
• NC:  Position 1 on STM2 Switch Sense Terminal 

I'm unsure where I was suppose to connect the Switch Sense to. 

Chris 

 

That's not what I diagrammed...

The Com on the relay gets connected to the Switch #1 Sense Terminal.

The NC on the relay gets the -5VDC and STM2 connection to Sense Return.

and what is correct is that the NO on the relay gets the +5 VDC

I still can't seem to get this to work. I have connected as Chuck suggested with the following:

• Comm (blue):  Switch #1 Sense Terminal 
• NC (gray) : -5 VDC & connects to sense return 
• NO (white): +5 VDC

I have tried connecting the green and yellow (one at time and both connected at the same time). I have the data wire driver connected, should I remove and try without it? 

I'm starting to think there something wrong with the relay. I wish there was a light on the relay to give an indication to what it is doing. 

What do you get so far? The STM2 showing a "Thru" switch without changing when you switch to "Out"? That would mean the relay is not switching. Anyway to connect a voltmeter? Looking at CAPPliot's diagram, connecting a voltmeter between the green lead into the extra relay and the black lead from the 14 vac power supply. Note in my diagram, that the Com to the black lead on the relay is the black lead of the 14 vac supply. And the Com on the output leads of the relay is the Com of the 5 vdc supply. Two different Com's.

CAPPilot's diagram is a better overall diagram...just add connecting the Com of the 5 vdc supply to the Sense Return.

cjack posted:

What do you get so far? The STM2 showing a "Thru" switch without changing when you switch to "Out"? That would mean the relay is not switching. Anyway to connect a voltmeter? Looking at CAPPliot's diagram, connecting a voltmeter between the green lead into the extra relay and the black lead from the 14 vac power supply. Note in my diagram, that the Com to the black lead on the relay is the black lead of the 14 vac supply. And the Com on the output leads of the relay is the Com of the 5 vdc supply. Two different Com's.

CAPPilot's diagram is a better overall diagram...just add connecting the Com of the 5 vdc supply to the Sense Return.

This diagram...

cjack posted:

cjack posted:

What do you get so far? The STM2 showing a "Thru" switch without changing when you switch to "Out"? That would mean the relay is not switching. Anyway to connect a voltmeter? Looking at CAPPliot's diagram, connecting a voltmeter between the green lead into the extra relay and the black lead from the 14 vac power supply. Note in my diagram, that the Com to the black lead on the relay is the black lead of the 14 vac supply. And the Com on the output leads of the relay is the Com of the 5 vdc supply. Two different Com's.

CAPPilot's diagram is a better overall diagram...just add connecting the Com of the 5 vdc supply to the Sense Return.

This diagram...

Chuck, 

First of all I want to thank you so far for your help. I greatly appreciate it. 

Thus far I have the switch machine hooked up and working properly by the Cab-2, iPad, and pushbutton. When I throw the switch from the pushbutton the iPad LCS app doesn't update the switch position at all. Please note that I only have one relay hooked-up in this test. I don't have two relays indicated in the diagram above. When I build my layout there will be two. One for non-derail and the other for the STM2. 

Now on my setup I connected the voltmeter on the green wire from the relay to the comm (black) from the relay and got a reading above 14 VAC. Currently powering the switch machine with track power (18 VAC). I also connected the voltmeter on the output of the DZ-1008A to see when the switch is thrown thru or out if I lose voltage. I connected the positive side of my meter to the COMM (blue, relay) to N/C and got 5 VDC no matter if the switch was thru or out. 

I think this confirms my theory that there is something going on with the relay. 

Chris 

Yes, does sound like it. I need to look at a DZ1000 switch diagram with the DZ1000 and the extra one to see if we are missing something.

Chuck,

Do you want me to order another relay to see? I don't mind. I'm curious to get this tested. I know others have done this but want to make sure it works.

Don't know. I need to look at this for the DZ1000 and see what it looks like. I don't have any Z Stuff, interesting stuff though.

I can't find any DZ1000-DZ1008 schematic that is complete. Just one for the 2500 and some words about the DZ1000. Juse need to see how the relay is switched and by what from the DZ1000. Wonder if someone could draw one for us, or maybe you draw what you have.

Patriots won...