Suggestions for Club Tabletop Layout Track, because Fastrack isn't working out...

Two questions to start:

1) When you say this layout is modular, do you mean A) there are modular sections where the track and scenery remain secured to the tables between shows only seperating the track where one module abuts the next, or B) that the track is completely removed from the tables each time?

2) Wiring improvement suggestions would depend on the type of Control system(s) in use.  Does the layout use DCS?

It looks like you take all the track off each time you tear down.  That really isn't going to work well with any track system, and I can't imagine anything better than Fastrack in that scenario.

I'd make the track permanently mounted and solder jumpers between each of the tracks if you need to for maximum reliability.  Between the sections, use a short "jumper" track so that pins don't get damaged hanging off the edge.  When you put the sections together, slide in the small jumper track and clamp the tables together.

@SteveH - our Modular Layout has sections with permanently affixed track and such, it is (mostly) super reliable.  We have a second layout we call our "tabletop" which is the problem.  The tabletop is really tables that we lay Fastrack on,  and yes, taken completely down each time.  Powered by either one Z4K or two MTH Z-750s, with DCS.

@gunrunnerjohn - yeah, completely disassembled each time and I was afraid of an answer like this.  Making the "tabletop" a "modular", which I think isn't going to be an option for the club.  The "tabletop" layout gets stored in a small trailer, tables on the bottom and boxes of track and decorations and such on top.  I was thinking Tubular might be more reliable than Fastrack, but probably not.

Thank you guys for your response.

Taking apart any type of track repeatedly and then assembling it again isn't going to be a recipe for reliability.  FWIW, I don't see why the tables can't be stored with the track on them, that would be my solution.

Thank you @gunrunnerjohn - I agree about the repeated assembly/dis-assembly causing issues, clearly well experienced here.    

For the tables to have permanently affixed track I'm guessing we'd have to construct some sort of "spacer" sheets of plywood with styrofoam or similar to lay on top of each table for storage/transit in the trailer, to be used between each table (wish I took pic of trailer loaded up now to show).   That could probably be done with 1/4" plywood and a thin sheet of styrofoam glued on it, something to consider.  Note we do the "jumper" track trick for our main modular layout, couldn't agree more that it helps with the pin issue.

Definitely something to consider, thank you...Rich

Well, if the tables only have the track on them, just the structure below could space them when you stack them.  As long as they had the jumpers for the edges, they'd just stack right together, you could even put some small "legs" to align them as they stack.

I literally think that a different box would solve a significant part of your problem.  With tables and a trailer, the track could be removed each time and packed into a long, skinny box in decent-sized chunks that don't ever get taken apart.  You could even jumper/glue/screw to plywood/whatever these together if you wanted to.

As a general principle, don't ever take Fastrack apart more than necessary, because there is always a danger of breaking it.

Good luck Rich.

I have no knowledge of Fastrack, but all your advise given to you seems great. If using the same tables over and over is part of your solution, with the track permanently affixed, maybe numbering the tables to make them easier to put back together may be helpful.

Tom

A very thin layer of solder helps secure pins in place:

For broken tabs, a small binder clip does wonders for holding Fastrack together:

Hope this helps! 

Mitch

Hi Rich- How about making track bed out of 1/2 plywood and fastening each table's track to it? Not full pieces, just the width of the track. This would reduce the amount of track to assemble/ disassemble and would reduce pin failures. This would still be lightweight and easily stored.
I'm sure you could make the various sections necessary for each track plan.
Spend a little time on the plywood, run a router on the edges to round them off. Then sand and paint, and it should last for a long time.
I've been threatening to do the same for my Christmas tree loops. I've had the track for about 10 years now and the plastic pins are starting to get weak.

Good luck.

Bob

@Long Hair posted:

I literally think that a different box would solve a significant part of your problem.  With tables and a trailer, the track could be removed each time and packed into a long, skinny box in decent-sized chunks that don't ever get taken apart.  You could even jumper/glue/screw to plywood/whatever these together if you wanted to.

As a general principle, don't ever take Fastrack apart more than necessary, because there is always a danger of breaking it.

I was thinking the same thing, use 30" straights where ever possible, keep curve sections together. I use normal totes for some track and those under the bed flip top plastic storage boxes for the straights. I like the idea of the underneath clips to keep larger pieces together may use that myself soon!

Tom's (Gilly@N&W) vision and expertise lead us in the creation of a 12x15 portable FasTrack layout in 2018. He is helping his son move today, so I suspect he may miss this thread.

1st are pictures of the layout going up...... FasTrack connectors connect the modules and then we clamp the tables together.

Then, are pictures of the traveling cart we built (another Gilly@N&W creation) to bring it around.  I wish Tom were around today......he would be much better at explaining the concept.....But, Rich, you can email him if you have any questions.....

Peter

Like everyone else says for a layout to be completely dismantled every time it’s put up is hard on it. Our club has a similar layout where we use Fastrack. It’s probably well over 10 years old that being said it hasn’t been put up near as much as it use too in the past couple of years. I think the biggest key to keep working as long as possible is keeping the track straight and level when connecting or removing sections. We so far have never had a wide spread problem with Fastrack but that’s not to say we won’t next time 😉

Just my take, tubular track would probably handle the taking apart/put together, but it has its own problems. Having worked with fasttrack on a christmas layout, I agree with others that maybe if you can swing it instead of breaking down each individual section of track, find a way to have them stay joined and take apart larger sections. You could do things like solder the permanent sections together, so a series of lets say 4 curves, 2 switches and the straight track(s) that connect them, etc. It can be a bit more unwieldy, having to deal with larger sections, but having to connect relatively few connections should make it more reliable. Soldering in 1 side of the pins where you take it apart would help, too, then you are really only connecting 1 side. The electrical connection in the roadbed is another problem, one thought if you have less sections you are taking apart, have a jumper wire from each of the sections across the gap with some kind of plug and socket that would connect the middle and out rail. You might have to drill a small hole to allow the wire to go between the sections (there is the 'wall" where they connect I recall), but would guarantee the electrical connection and would be hidden.

@bigkid posted:

Just my take, tubular track would probably handle the taking apart/put together, but it has its own problems.

When I started doing shows back around 2004, I went the tubular route as well...

The main problems with tubular are a) sharp edges and b) reverse curves are a pain, as you have to yank the pins from one end of the curve and put them in the other end...

I started switching to Fastrack when Lionel released the Hogwarts Express in 2007, and now use Fastrack at all my show displays. 

Mitch

Peter:

Please show close up pictures with description of the leg pockets on your modules

Thanks in advance !!!

@Murnane  I would suggest tubular if you are going to take the track off each time.  Wiring can be landed with lock-ons to make life easier. 

Although I also don't really see a reason to take the track off.  Install a lip around the edges of the table just slightly higher than the track.  When the tables stack up they rest on the lip instead of the track. 

On my  portable train show modules I used two different set ups.

One consisted of 1 1/2" tall blocks in each corner to stack equal modules directly on top of one another.

The other system was a series of 1/2" X 4' X 8' OSB shelves  supported and separated by 2" X 6" X 8' lumber mounted in my truck.  Just had to slide out each modules as needed for set up.

For leg sockets I used drilled blocks for dowels.

I wonder if Lionel will bring their magnetic track from their HO line to the O gauge line. I think that would be absolutely perfect for those who constantly reassemble track.

@Murnane posted:

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I see the one problem and it's not insurmountable. You need to add two things:

• Inter-table/module wiring. This will feed each table and not rely on the FasTrack pins to carry the current. Every modular group I can think of runs a buss. You can put in multiple feeds on each table.
• Clamp points on the table ends to lock them in place and maintain alignment with or without the pins.

@Tom Tee posted:

On my  portable train show modules I used two different set ups.

One consisted of 1 1/2" tall blocks in each corner to stack equal modules directly on top of one another.

The other system was a series of 1/2" X 4' X 8' OSB shelves  supported and separated by 2" X 6" X 8' lumber mounted in my truck.  Just had to slide out each modules as needed for set up.

For leg sockets I used drilled blocks for dowels.

What's up with this pvc?  Am I looking at a vacuum assist system to suck up the drilling as you go?

Yes,  The 4" rain drain piping connects the drill press pick up to the dust collector just to the right of the drill press.

There is a 4" manifold  which  runs under the table with blast gates to pick up chips at a few different stations.

There is also a 1 1/2" vacuum line connected to shop vacs for each of the table power tools.  The small hose  attaches directy to the factory dust port.

Additionally there is a friable dust collector mounted above the table to catch air born dust.

Large cupped plastic collector to guide debris.

4" inlet to left rear, Shop Vac hose on chop saw.  No real problem with saw dust.

The routers, table saw, 12" disk sander and other nasty dirty tools are in the garage.

two pair of sockets

You could use 4 pin trailer connectors between your modular sections for jumper wires. Connect them all the same way and you could swap panels around if you wanted to and one set of connectors would handle two tracks, definitely heavy duty enough to handle track power.

Thank you all for the responses.  If I could summarize I think it seems like we're all in agreement that frequent setup/teardown of a simple "Fastrack on some tables" layout is tough to keep reliable, and we should consider a more permanent small layout with more of the normal features of a real modular layout.

If the club doesn't want to do a complete "do-over", I think there are a few really good points here too, such as:

• better storage / box to keep pieces together, and permanently affix some pieces together to make longer sections (if I worded that right)
• binder clips to the rescue!
• clamping tables together, no idea why we never do that, we do that with our modular layout
• better bus/power connectivity
• Tubular! @jhz563  :-)
• permanently fixing the track to the tables (or to plywood), using "jumper" tracks, and figuring out HOWTO reliably store them in our small trailer/etc.

I probably missed a few, but again there is a lot here and I wanted to thank you all for your comments.

I second the benefits of mixing matching trailer connectors in different combinations.

I did this successfully to run my kids' small fleet of Powerwheels on 20v lithium power tool batteries in addition to the OEM batteries 12v batteries.  The connectors in my case got the job done, but they did get hot to the touch.

I'd use something like Anderson PowerPole connectors, they're far more reliable than the cheap trailer connectors.  They also come in colors and can be stacked in any configuration.  They're good for many thousands of connect/disconnect cycles.

You can do cool things like color code the individual wire connections as well...

I have used trailer connections for a module and I don't like them.  They can be very stiff and need to be pushed all the way together.   Definitely not friendly to young or arthritic hands.

Also, I like the quick bar clamps over c-clamps.  The quick clamps are much easier to use and don't weigh as much to carry around.

Or bolts and wing nuts for a tiny fraction of the weight and price

@Long Hair posted:

I literally think that a different box would solve a significant part of your problem.  With tables and a trailer, the track could be removed each time and packed into a long, skinny box in decent-sized chunks that don't ever get taken apart.  You could even jumper/glue/screw to plywood/whatever these together if you wanted to.

As a general principle, don't ever take Fastrack apart more than necessary, because there is always a danger of breaking it.

This idea, which is a great one, is essentially re-inventing Kittworks.  I wish he were still in business.

IMO, taking the track off the platform each time is the absolute wrong way to go.  It's not hard to use edging on the platform so you can stack the sections and just leave the track on the platform.