Suggestions for proposed layout

What is the desired size? It looks like you are off of the desired table? 17' x 12'?

It really depends on what you see with your mind's eye as the final result.

You have plenty of room for scenery now. Do you have lots of Dept 56 buildings and accessories and the like? Adding more track will cut some of that out.

A small elevated section will add the prerequisite tunnel/mountain.

Multiple trains running look nice on a holiday layout. I can see five smaller loops in this space with a twice around in the center around a tree or center piece item.

thanks "moonman" - yes, the grand kids when younger loved to give snow-village at christmas - we have 35-40 pieces most with accessories - many accessories and trees

you noted the track hanging off table - this can be easily adjusted

thank so much for your suggestions - -

rdeal

I love the ski hill.

Which track are you using? I have an idea.

If you will run "tinplate" will they be std or O?

rdeal'

You have a lot of room for a great Christmas layout that you and your family will love.

I had a similar situation (with a lot less room) in that I had 60 Department 56 buildings with no place to really display them, and a Lionel Christmas train and New York Central train running on two independent loops of track on the floor around our Christmas tree.

The attached file shows the permanent corner layout that I developed.

A few pointers from my efforts:

• The reversing loop is a "must" with Grandkids as they really like to watch a train change directions.
• To Moonman's point....a tunnel is also a great addition to the layout.  I used the top of mine to feature most of my "North Pole" items.  Make sure that the trains in the tunnel are accessible (I cut an access opening in the side of mine.)
• Change out the light bulbs in any houses that you cannot easily reach to LED bulbs.
• Add some operating accessories if you can.  My layout does not have any "moving" accessories at this time and is "nice" to look at but needs more action for my Grandchildren.
• Take your time and search these forums for suggestions as you plan and build your layout.

Howard

What track are you using? Controls are conventional (needs blocks) or a command set up?

Level- If you add turnouts, and divide the dog bone into two power blocks, with each block able to be switched to the inner loop power controller, you could move trains between tracks, and reverse direction on them "no hands". 4 turnouts & 2 toggle switches are all you would need.   

Remember- The smallest loop of a dog bone, or crossing(x) is your train length limiter.

Level Elevation- On the dog bone could give two villages, mountain(s) and a bridge along the back. Adding dimension to a flat world is more fun.

A trolley? No matter what, yes, yes, and yes. I love them.

As a kid, my Grandfather set his up straight, and along the front edge so kids could easily work the bump and go by a hand across the track. But visually I wanted to see it travel between towns (Hint, hint).

For visual, I would do another elevated line, open track(no wood under) on trestles with a timed stop at a walk down trolley station near your lower, inner loop "town" and bump stops at the other two 'towns" on the ends. A trolley is light and wont need extra support. The open rails wont be as bad of a visual block either, but will be one. So playing with that idea later, may be a better idea.

Or

Flat about the same thing, across the front edge, and/or crossing tracks with a stop and wait set up, where the trolley stops and waits for any trains. That can be done with block control, and/or simple Lionel under track contactors.

 A siding? Why not?

Especially if kids may run this it allows some switching/delivering, but a parked engine is cool too. Again, some block control would let you do this in conventional, or command on that track.

Look no hands! 

"h morgan" thank you - i do not have operating accessories - except a beacon that turns, two flashing signs, 3 different lionel christmas gateman - thanks for the tip on using led in the snowvillage houses - thanks so much for your help

"moonman" - all trains are O gauge - two christmas trains from MTH, steam engins and passenger and freight, and two lionel steam engines, one will pull five snow village christmas cars and one will pull seven lionel tank cars + two on order

At the prsent i am planning to use all fastrack - waiting to hear your idea -

guys, thank so much - rdeal

thanks so much - this is great

"adriatic" - thanks - at the present plans include - village to the right "homes" and town center and to left - ending on left - - - i was thinking of elevated trolley - but really like the idea of "crossing tracks with a stop and wait set up, where the trolley stops and waits for any trains"

again thanks - rdeal

Power controls. What do you use?

quick and dirty in scarm. Moonman what you think

"adriatic" - i have three MTH proto3 engines - planning to use fastrack with MTH DCS

thanks for you help

"jhainer" - tunnels look so cool -

thanks - rdeal

Thank you rdeal, more than likely that becomes relevant at some point for options like the stop & go, accessories etc..

And I'm getting some questions out that normally cause some delay, done and over for a bit

Are you using a transformer now? Which type, and will that stay, and is there more new power coming too?

On the inner section, is that a crossing(X), or an over under? Does it matter?

Do you own anything already?(track)

"adriatic" - transformers? i have the two mth that came with the two train packages from Mth - more power will be coming as needed - via - help from this fourm

inner section - is crossing (X) and does it matter - nothing is written in stone - but i would like to use an elevated trolley -

track - i have two small ovals of mth realtrack and one enlarged figure 8 fastrack

i was hoping to began a moderate elevation from the outer point to point track and use the mth steel bridge in the top middle -

again - thanks so much for your help

rdeal

Ok,

Here's what came out...

12' sides 4' wide  with a 8' center 5' wide  for a 12' x 16' U or C. I tried to keep the sheets of ply even , but needed 5' wide in the center for the twice around. So, it's 4 sheets of ply and a 1' x 8' strip or 5 sheets of ply. The rest could be used for the tunnel/mountain.

4 trains and a trolley, one loop in the center elevated in the front tunnel\mountain to the rear and right.

The depressed figure 8 on the left is 048 except for two center curves that are 036.(This can be modified to eliminate switches for cost and to 036 as it is right on the edges of the table)

The rest is all 036, except trolley has 2 072's.

The bridge could be incorporated into the elevated line in the center.

4 locations for a tree. (I forgot one at the low right)

If you like it and want to work on it, I'll do it in RRT. The 3D is much nicer in SCARM.

 I'll play some more tomorrow. Maybe lower the "island towns some" and work on a raised trolley.

  This one would activate the FT-31 switch at the center city stop, each time it reaches that point. I was going to suggest going with streets for the trolley in the city. For turn size and interest by changing the rails. 

  My main beef with myself is reaching any tunnel derailments. Mainly to the right side. 

  Will there be walk around room? What's your reach like?(access hatches!?, or are you a climber?) Access hatches would let that cut out area we did up front, be filled. 

A parts list, would help us use what you have vs useing your wallet.

Curve size & brand, straights each size, etc. 

Moonman's offers more train action, but I really like yours too.

Well, my thought was simple build, reliable operation and high scenery to track ratio with lots of train action, lights, lighted buildings and such.

Here's SantaFe158's Redford Theater Holiday Display

Here's the thread: Redford Theater Display-2014

I was going to mention the holiday reliability of what you had switched too.

I just like to play with the program.

I'd be amazed if he actually copied everything that was there, Or anything really.

 I also have had some outside the forum contact with rdeal, and though not specifically mentioned, I think he has some additional design decisions he may make. But that may be scenery based...I'm just guessing around.  

That theater isn't that far from me. 20min maybe.

Adriatic,

SantaFe158 and Mark Bee had a real nice display. It's set up so the theater operators can turn it on from the movie and light control booth. Check it out this year.

thanks "moonman" for showing me the snipped tool in windows - this is my first attempt a redrawing the original layout - but i really like the trolley tracks that "adriatic" suggested

thanks for all the help - rdeal

Moonman

I went by there years ago, and saw someone carrying a loco then noticed a sign with hours for an upcoming open house. When I returned the dates or hours or something had changed, but the same guy saw me, and came out to talk for a moment or two with an explaination and new times. I had tried to make it back, but it didn't ever happen.

  Now, I'd have to find a ride. There are only two left from my old group of friends. I lost my 6 best, all within 5 years, all under 45 years old.

 With a diaphragm injury, driving isn't my favorite task any more. Nor is it truly safe in daytime traffic, and I'm actually selling off the last of my "drivable toys" this weekend.

So chances are actually rather slim.

But.... A clear garage means more room for another layout here!

Rdeal,

I am getting a lot out of this topic!  As a former N and HO modeler, O gauge hi rail modeling appeals to me.  I had never been one for having several loops of track with trains going round and round.  However, as I enter my second childhood, or so it seems, a lot of yours and the contributer's ideas are starting to appeal to me, especially as our daughters are now grown, one is married, and I am starting to think of what would appeal to grandchildren.  We didn't have children until I was in my mid 30s, and I had a well established N scale layout.  Our girls never seemed interested, but they sure liked Thomas on TV.  I liked him too.  I am starting to pick up some post war and MPC trains and accessories with the thought of building something like you folks are writing about here once we know there is a grandchild on the way.  In the meantime, I will keep working on my hi rail ideas with newer MTH and Lionel trains, realistic scenery, et cetera.  Thanks for all the great ideas everyone.

"mark" - your points are well made - my thinking (for me) and my interest moves more to running the trains - less to switching - but, i must admit i am impressed with the layouts with large yards and many switches and sidetracks - i love passenger trains - and with the permanent christmas layout - looking forward to adding the house and accessories - and trying to recreate some memories from my childhood -  i am now creating a (personal) christmas train!- more about this later

rdeal

Rdeal,

Thanks.  Your comment reminded me of one more thing that has me broadening my interests.  That is the Christmas layout.  Since one daughter was married last October, my wife suggested we solve our problem of where to run the Polar Express and use the numerous Dickens Village porceline buildings that her grandmother had collected before her passing.  Quite frankly, with a small living room and no other place to put the Christmas tree, we used them infrequently.  My wife proposed we set up a Christmas layout in our daughter's old room.  It worked out great!  I now converted that table to a temporary layout with the idea that I will pick up the buildings and vehicles come christmas, but down a snow blanket and place the Dickens Village buildings down again.  Once our other daughter moves out, I will have another room to work with in future plans.

Also, I like the idea of memories from childhood.  Around 1990, I scratchbuilt the home I grew up in, in fact my elderly parents still live there.  I would like to do something like that in O someday.

Christmas layout, 2014

Temporary layout - May 2015

Scratchbuilt Boyce Homestead N scale - ~1990

Mike,

Here are some more photos!  I will post them, and then write the description.  I'm doing this on my iPad, and I was interupted and lost them.  That is why I'll post the photos so they don't go away before I get the typing done.  ;-)

Mike,

The Christmas layout was about 5' x 7'.  It was on two folding tables that were covered with a white paper.  The raised level was on a 2" thick piece of Styrofoam painted with acrylic white.  I then put a snow blanket down over that which I purchased from Forum sponsor, Harrison Trains and Scenes.  Randy Harrison suggested putting the blanket over a white surface, so no darkness shines through.  We thought it was very effective.

I then put a loop of 036 FasTrack on the raised area and 048 on the tables.  It worked out nicely.  I ran a 2012 Polar Express set with a couple additional cars and a MTH PS1 upgraded to PS2 Hudson pulling MTH Madison cars.  I didn't run any freights over Christmas.  I put the Dickens Village buildings in place, and left the white power cords on top of the snow blanket, instead of cutting a bunch of holes in it.  I'm somewhat of a perfectionist, but the cords weren't really noticeable.  My wife and single grown daughter had fun placing the buildings and people.  Our married daughter and her husband liked it a lot too.

After Christmas, I wanted to not rely on the two tables, but bought a 2 inch thick piece of 4x8 Styrofoam and placed it on a single table. I also built out the front a bit with some wood, to make room for the 048 track that takes up about 50 inches.  This is all supported by 2x4s on top of the table.  You can see the ends under the long 2x4 in the last photo.  The photo shows a Woodland Scenics grass mat, but i replaced it last week with a green indoor outdoor carpet that deadens the sound of the FasTrack.

My idea for next Christmas is to remove buildings, vehicles et cetera off this temporary layout, place the white Styrofoam oval back down, and cover this with Randy's blanket.  Then we will place the Dickens Village back on.

I call this a temporary layout, because I am waiting for our single daughter to move out,  Then I will gain her room for my permanent layout.

If you have any questions, please let me know.  I'm not saying it is the greatest idea, but it has served the purpose.

i have modified the layout - 48 degree turns on loop to loop - added a circle for a hand car - got carried away a bit with the 27 tubular trolley track - as this layout is drawn, three trains can run at once

what do you think - what do i need to do before the next "re-draw"

rdeal - thanks so much

If the trolley switch is non-derail and will change routes automatically, you have not over done the trolley. Very whimsical and entertaining.

Have you left enough space for your buildings? Create some rectangles to size of a couple of similar footprints and move them around. That may tell you if a track change is needed.

4 trains and  a trolley running, correct?

i think it is 3 trains - one handcar - and one trolley running at the same time

building - i can do that - work on that later in the day -

do you think we are making progress

thanks so much for your help - rdeal

Yes I think so.

Sometimes upon laying track, everything changes some.

 I cant see the track types or elevation or anything, and I mention crossings & switches below, but if use different track types, keep in mind how you might have to connect them.

 Tubular use opens design up. Its easy to cut to length and more forgiving on lining up close calls as far as fit goes. 

 We haven't talked much about the "tech" involved with the "stop and wait" for the street car. Not to go too deep, but a few points.

Check the trolley operation on the switches once both are available right off too.

 If I remember right some critters can be buggers, others no problem.

I didn't try to squeeze in a crossing(X) in place of the two main line/trolley shared switches. A crossing would simplify that portion, by eliminating the shared mainline. It would still stop if it has to.

 The auto derail, if equipped will make this a little simpler at the center station, but some detection and relaying of power will be needed for the "stop & go" power blocks.

 A small "under bench" or hidden relay, and isolated rail, on the center trolley station leg of the turnout, will be needed for three continuous bump stops. A two position e-unit and capacitor would be ideal. But there are other relay choices too.

A small power source dedicated to this would ne nice.

 Don't forget loco & stock overhang checks. And any over under crossing, height needs to take rail code(height), road bed height, and/or foam & even blanket thickness, into account.

you sure are making progress. The separate loops makes wiring and control simple and reliable. You already know that I like multiple trains running at once for display layouts like this.

I forgot about the handcar. Santa and the Mrs handcar?

I do have another thought...which is the handcar track? The circle? I have always liked the effect of placing the bumpers (if it is that type) behind a building or in a tunnel.

Then the car appears and disappears like a busy worker doing something.

The circle is cool if it is not the bumper type.

what are some fun and creative ways a handcar (bumpers) can be hidden - while running or at the end (return)

thanks - rdeal

my latest effort at working on the layout - i can make track adjustment later, i do not have the computer skills to do this with the drawing program

"A" this area to be discussed later

"B" interesting, four tracks closely laid - 1)top loop to loop, elevated - 2) hand car point to point and 3)&4) two single loops with the trains running in opposite directions

"C" trolley - changing direction - looking for ways to hid ends of track

"D" hand car track - could be shortened

"E" suggestion was made - larger curves - the outside point to point is 48 - all other curves are 36 - my christmas train are all tinplate - i think i will be okay

if you have suggestions or criticisms or the name of a good english ale - please chime in

thanks so much for your help - rdeal

 Have you the room for the "special, rectangular, focal point"?

The new track plan helped with area A- a Santa's supply building to cover both bumpers- shipping on one end receiving on the other.

Rotate the bumpers to the parallel to the front of the layout. Then an observer can catch the joke.

Theme the building according to the handcar. You can mod warehouse type building or make a foamcore building and print the exterior.

The joke could vary, too. You may be more clever than me on that part.

Track plan thought...

Elevate the horizontal loop around switch, trolley C.

Keep loop to loop E all at 0 elevation. The switches for E can be manual switches. They will automatically reverse the route. less wiring. If you have remotes, just power them with no controller needed. Power assisted non-derail will do the same.

Easier build, more eye appeal.

Here's my take

048 FasTrack outside loop to loop

036 FasTrack bump to bump handcar run

036 FasTrack run around (next track inside)

Lionel O tubular on Lionel O elevated trestles 5 3/4"

Lionel O whimsical trolley run in center

031 FasTrack almost circle (A) with earthen bumpers in building.

This turned your tables into 60" or 5' wide tables. Outside is 156"(13') legs and 204"(17') across the top wide.

here's pics of the track plan