Sunset 3rd Rail - SP AC-9? Any interest?

I am definitely interested in a brass AC-9. I have the Lionel one, but the bottom of the boiler is missing and has a U-shaped opening. I don't know why they did this on some models, including the N&W Class A. The Precision is too expensive, and the Max Gray is too hard to find. I will take an AC-9 with oil or coal tender!

 

I would buy a 3rd rail AC9 in a heartbeat!

 

Ricky

I would definitely purchase an AC9 if offered.

Well, that's four.

 

I am a true SP modeler, and have just about every steamer the SP. ever had in my O Scale roster,including six totally different versions of Cab Forwards.  I will not be adding the AC-9.

 

The Max Gray version was well done, and if I was a 3-railer, I would get one and have Joe put big flanges on it.  The used prices of these things went to four grand about a decade ago, but they are down quite a bit now.

Here are some photos of Hot Water's Lionel AC-9, complete with mods;  four chuffs per revolution, relettered tender, modified coal load, and great lettering courtesy of Gene Kutina. 

 

 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

Bob2, thanks for your thoughts.  I am actually a collector of Sunset 3rd Rail models, but started out as a strict SP guy.  I assume you are a 2 rail modeler, in which case you have a few options already.  I have more projects now than I can get to so modifying an old model isn't an appealing option for me at this time.  I'm just thinking it's good timing for 3rd rail at some point in the very near future as they need a new articulated project and they have always been strong with SP models anyway.

 

GNNPNUT - great pictures!  Thank you!  That thing is a world apart from mine.  I was hoping to get Hot Water to chime in on this post, but I guess we all know he has been pushing for one longer than me.

Those are really good photos.  I enjoyed them the first time.

 

Yes, I am a 2-railer.  I have options to 2-rail anything that looks as good as that, and I can easily fill in the boier belly.  I just don't care for the way the cab looks.  I may be the only SP nut in the whole world who does not want one of these, but so far it does not look good - Scott will never import four of anything.

 

If you can get twenty by next week, I think you will have a better chance at convincing him.

 

Opinion.

Bob2, how would you fill in the boiler belly on one of these? This model looks great except for that.

Depending on the final cost, I am interested in a oil version of the AC-9 for 3 rail.

 

Frank 

I wouldn't be that quick to count it out Bob2.  The Forum participants are only a very small fraction of the the market as a whole.  Several members join but never participate in discussions of any kind because as one guy just put it in an email to me this morning "I don't want to deal with the arrogance of others that feel the need to spew negativity towards every topic.". That said, I did get 3 more as direct emails and one in support from someone that did get a model built starting out this same way.  I'm not looking for enough to justify building it at this point.  I'm just looking to show interest in hopes that Scott would proceed with putting it out as a reserve option to get the full customer base interest.  If nothing happens then so be it.  At least I tried.  

 

Robert Bradley jr., boomer, ecd15 and fgroza, thank your for your show of support.

Scott and I have gone back and forth already.  I just don't want to sit on my hands and do nothing as then it would be my own fault if it truly never even gets considered.  I have found in this hobby that there are a few that speak for many and I thought it was time to speak for myself.  I am one that respects everyone's opinion, but haven't done much to give my own.  This just happens to be my personal favorite SP engine so naturally I want to see it produced far better than Lionel did it.  Like I said at the beginning, it may just be me being selfish but there are definitely others that feel the same.

 

If nothing comes of this bob2 then I hope you'll teach me your methods for modifying Lionel's version.  Until then, I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

I would be happy to.  But you might be just as happy 3-railing a Max Gray model.  Often closing in the belly entails a different drive train and gearbox, and sometimes that means a new main frame.

I have 2 and 3 rail models. I stopped buying my favorite models (giant articulateds, especially cab-forwards) in 3 rail due to the problems of circuit boards, traction tires, and smoke units. My last 2 big purchases, a N&W Y6b, and a DM&IR Yellowstone are 2 rail. They run beautifully.  All I want them to do is run and pull long trains. If I had a Max Gray AC-9, it would stay 2-rail!  Thanks Bob 2 for the tips and problems of adding a complete boiler. I probably won't attempt to change my Lionel version, might get in trouble and be without any AC-9s.

Great paint job on the Lionel AC-9 by Gene Kutina!. Makes me give mine a second look!

I am a fan of Sunset, no comparasion in my opinion to other models. Gnnpnut great photos I don't have it in me to weather these models.

Here are two videos of the beast that I shot last weekend also.

Gnnpnut,

 what make is the caboose behind the AC-9? Brass or plastic?

Nice videos, keep it up!

Frank

Wow, what a difference 4 chuffs makes.  Thanks for sharing GNNPNUT!

 

Where can I find coal like that?  Everything I find is just too large.

That's the Sunset/3rd Rail Southern Pacific wood caboose model, in brass naturally. The came fully painted with lighted markers, I have two in different road numbers of course.

I buy different bags of coal from all over the place. Been "collecting" it for decades. I even have some real coal, which I smash on the garage floor and sweep it up for mixed sizes.

I would be in on an AC-9, next to the Big Boy the AC-9 is my favorite loco.

I would love to be in a position to buy an AC-9 (2 rails only) for less than 2 grands. If SUNSET was to produce one, I would definitely reserve one. I know that their model will be much more detailed than the old Max Gray and even US Hobbies that were produced half a century ago. And no, I cannot afford the $3K-4K PSC units.

 

Yves

As an SP fan (nut) I couldn't resist purchasing the AC-9 when they were offered a few years ago by Lionel. My primary reason for buying it even though its 3-rail was the price was right, I had to have it, and I just couldn't afford the cost of a Max Gray 2-rail version plus the cost of re-detailing and paint work. If Sunset 3rdRail ever decided to do a 2-rail AC-9 I'd most likely buy one and sell the Lionel version.

 

However I do think the pictures of Hotwaters weathered AC-9, assuming its a Lionel engine, look absolutely terrific and I'm sure its a great running except for one small thing - its 3-rail. Really fine looking engine!

 

If Sunset 3rdRail ever decided to go ahead with an AC-9 they'd get my reservation without hesitation. I currently own 5 or 6 3rdRail (2-rail) engines and so far I have no complains whatsoever!

Well, well!  Look at what we have here!  I'm hoping that everyone that expressed interest will contact Scott for your reservation.  I'd hate to see this one slip away.  I want to thank Scott for considering this project.

 

http://3rdrail.com/reservation.html#AC9

 

I have just put in my order. IT IS ABOUT TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

Note that the announcement indicates that both coal burning AND oil burning versions will be offered. For the oil burning version, I hope Scott does those locomotives that received those big former C&O 2-8-8-2, by way of the UP, "Simple Simon" tenders. After World War II, the UP quickly took those 2-8-8-2 locomotives they got from the C&O, out of service. The Southern Pacific purchased some of the tenders, brought them to Sacramento Shops and converted them to oil. Thus, she an AC-9 was brought into the shops for conversion to oil, the tender was already done.

 

After conversion to oil burning, all the AC-9 locomotives where reassigned to the Modoc Line (instead of back to Lordsburg, NM).

That's some great information Hot Water. The AC-9 is one of my all time favorite engines, but I have very little information on them so I appreciate any info you can share.  Thank you!

Check out Robert Church's Cab Forward book for a complete chapter on the AC-9s and lots of photos. The AC-9s were assigned to the Tucumcari-El Paso line when built in 1939 as coal burners. Around 1950 they were reassigned to the Modoc line in California and the railroad had to get a special permit to run them in CA due to their excessive width. Here they got the ex H-7 tenders. There is some video footage but not much on the Pentrex Cab Forward dvd. The regular cab forwards were built by Baldwin, but the AC-9s were built by Lima-Hamilton.

I think you will find that it was still "Lima Locomotive Works" back in 1939. In fact, thru the steam locomotive building era (1948?), it was still "Lima Locomotive Works".

 

When it became Lima-Hamilton, they started building diesels, and they eventually became Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton.

Thanks. I forgot about that. The AC-9s weighed 689,000 lbs engine alone as a coal burner. They were the heaviest ACs. They had a rated 6000 hp at 40 mph, same as the last AC cab forwards, but had slightly less weight on the drivers-still a rated 124,300 lbs starting tractive effort.  This is modest compared to the over 200,000 lbs for the latest AC 6000s and SD-90s, but alot for back then.

Thanks again for the info gents!  I have several SP steam videos and know that footage of the AC-9 is scarce.  I will have to check out Church's Cab Forward book.  Thanks for the tip.  

 

According to Sunset figure around $2000 for the AC-9

 

Frank

Glad to see 3rd Rail come thru for you folks! 

 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

I did not know that Akane made one in O Scale.  At its peak, the Max Gray version got over three grand back when three grand really bought a lot of trains.  I bet you can get one of these on the used market for $1200 or so.  The new Sunset is a bargain at 2 grand, today's money.  Opinion.

I am going to order one.I feel while that $1999.00 is expensive,it isvery  reasonable for a limited run,handcrafted,fully painted,brass O scale locomotive with all the "bells and whistles". I have been extremely pleased with all my 3rd rail locomotives. I have one of the new ATSF 2900's and it's simply awesome. I have a Espee GS4 Daylight coming.Scott is doing a fantastic job.

 

Ricky

I feel that the $2000 is very reasonable for what you get, far better than $4000 for a similar engine from PSC. I have also reserved the Jawn Henry- a fantastic looking pilot model on the latest Sunset catalogue. I will not get rid of the Lionel AC-9, as I like this one also, despite the floorless boiler!

I agree. I also ordered the SP GS-4, and ended up get the LAST black version. Scott indicated that only 10 models in black were produced, and I called just in time to get number ten.