Sunset/3rd Rail Diesels

• Because Sunset doesn't have the purchasing power/ dealer network as Lionel and MTH do.
• Sunset Models uses a more expensive quality drive system with ball bearings.
• Details on each model are road specific unless it was cost prohibitive.
• Sunset models are truly built to order

Fireball RR posted:

Hello - Would someone be able to explain why Sunset Diesels would be worth $150-$200 more than a Lionel/MTH diesel of the same type? I just placed an order for GP7 and am excited for my first Sunset model but am not seeing the value prop since it’s using Lionel technology inside the unit and has a plastic shell.

Sunset/3rd Rail does NOT use ANY "Lionel technology" inside their models!

Any feedback on the experiences of those who have Sunset diesel models would be appreciated.

1) They are prototype detail accurate.

2) They operate EXTREMELY smoothly, especially at slow speeds.

some have front scale coupler alternatives

True fixed pilots, no fantasy paint schemes, no crayon colors, proper Kadee mounts, proper gear ratios, and truly hand built to order. With ERR innards, they run and sound every bit as good as Legacy. 

Hot Water posted:

Fireball RR posted:

Hello - Would someone be able to explain why Sunset Diesels would be worth $150-$200 more than a Lionel/MTH diesel of the same type? I just placed an order for GP7 and am excited for my first Sunset model but am not seeing the value prop since it’s using Lionel technology inside the unit and has a plastic shell.

Sunset/3rd Rail does NOT use ANY "Lionel technology" inside their models!

 

They no longer use Lionel’s TMCC/Railsounds inside their diesels?

Electronics have little impact on production costs... Now, what would you get if Lionel or MTH attempted to produce a CB&Q E5? A monster, that much is true.

Below some captures of the recent 3rd Rail E5 phase II... Judge for yourself...

Hot Water posted:

Sunset/3rd Rail does NOT use ANY "Lionel technology" inside their models!

 This is clearly wrong, they use the Electric RR electronics.  Since that is a Lionel designed and licensed product, it's hard to see how you could say it's not "Lionel Technology".

I thought ERR was originally designed independently by Jon Z? The Lionel tech part at the time was the use of the R2LC. At least that’s what I remember, back in what? 2007 or so? This was before the different sound boards they made. 

Norm, since Lionel bought ERR, and after that the current RailSounds Commander was designed (it's the RS-Lite board), it's hard to say that this isn't "Lionel Technology".  Also, the Cruise Commander uses the stock Lionel manufactured R4LC with the TMCC C08 code. 

Also, Jon Z. worked for Lionel after they bought ERR for a number of years!

Lionel did not design ERR’s CEMF cruise tech, they simply bought it. Surprised they didn’t throw it in the trash.

Norm, not only did they not throw it in the trash, but they've used it in a number of their products.  I'd be somewhat surprised if the current Legacy BEMF board isn't also based on the same technology.  The separate sale Lionel 6-38402 TMCC Amtrak HHP-8 uses a Cruise Commander, and I'm pretty sure several other TMCC products used it as well.

Lionel did not design a lot of the stuff that they own, that doesn't mean it's not Lionel's product and property, right?  I'm certain that Lionel obtained any patents that were granted on ERR products when they bought ERR.

I’m still surprised they didn’t dump it. It was better than the TMCC stuff they had at the time that was on the way out and now it’s in arguably better products than they are currently making. You can buy a superior model from their competition that runs every bit as well as Legacy and has less smoke units to explode.

I don't think I want to get into a Ford vs. Chevy argument, I think this train of thought has left the station.

1. Quality

2. Detail

3. Fidelity to prototypes based on research and two way communication with knowledgeable customers

4. Excellent Service

I personally experienced all of these when I purchased a Union Pacific Alco PA/PB set from the first run.  I had courteous discussions with Scott and Designers prior to production.  When delivered, they were beautiful.  I had a loose screen and electrical gremlin with the PB unit that was likely due to handling during shipping.

It was handled immediately and satisfactorily.

Only my opinion, but they have set themselves apart as a great value for a reasonable price.

Sunset 3rd Rail products are scale models.    Many of the competitions products are not, they are designed to fit a radius curve or a certain box size or whatever gleam is in the accountants eye at the time.    this is ok, it is busines.   but they don't always tell you what is really scale, and what is fantasy, so you can get royally screwed, and they just ignore you if you complain.

Case in point, the first run of the GLa hoppers were beautiful models, with good color and the CORRECT PRR trucks.    I ordered the recent run based on a good experience with the first.    When they came in, they were painted something like focal orange atrocious.    And they had replaced the gorgeous PRR Crown trucks with a generic truck of some sort coverting a very nice PRR model into inaccurate toy train.    When I complained and asked for the correct trucks, they ignored me.

While sunset does not always get things right, they at least answer you and try to fix problems if they can or explain why not.

I have a number of the new diesel models and the mechanisms are great single motor and details are road specific.    I would rather have a good model of a prototype than a genteric piece that is a model of nothing.

I am buying their PRR F3 because of the road specific details on it are found only on more expensive brass models, specifically the PRR bullet number boards.  Now if 3rd Rail would build a PRR F7 with the bullet number boards (the first 10 A-units had them) I'd buy that too.

As a 2 railer, I like fidelity to scale. I usually buy two brands of diesels, Atlas (when I can find it) and Sunset 3rd Rail.  I wonder if Sunset has ever thought about the car part rather than just locos and passenger cars.

Dick

I greatly appreciate everyone’s feedback here as it was very helpful. Even more excited now for when the PRR GP-7 arrives.