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Just added a YouTube video at the bottom of the narrative.    

Here are some photos of the Sunset 3rd Rail Burlington E8A engineering prototype.  First look for many of you.  Some of you may have seen it up close and in person at the March Meet.  Scott displayed it there and then sent it to me for an overall evaluation and especially DCC operation evaluation  prior to putting it into production. 

I hope to do a video shortly.  (Added)  In the meantime I found it to run very smoothly starting with speed step 1 and throughout the speed range.  This with my NCE wireless cab set to 128 speed steps.  Same for the test cab in CV Manager.

While sound is subjective and in the ears of the beholder, I found the sound to be the best yet.  It comes loaded with the latest QSI Q3 version firmware with QSI's best yet sound file.  Equally important it has two large speakers with enclosures mounted to the chassis with a gasket between and  radiating down out of the chassis.  Each speaker is on a separate 2 watt channel each of which can be manipulated with what amounts to a recording studio like sound board in CV Manager.  I didn't need to do anything to this engine.

(For example, in some of my QSI equipped steam locomotives I installed a speaker with enclosure in the boiler and a larger speaker for more bass in the tender using the tender shell as the enclosure and then used the CV Mgr fade/equalization capability to move the sound toward the boiler with pretty good results.  Sounds appear to come from about mid boiler while retaining a good amount of the bass response from the tender speaker.)

The E8A has all LED lighting.  I always find the lights of new engines as delivered too bright so I adjusted them to suit my tastes easily with QSI CV Manager.  And  while at it set the Classification lights to toggle on and off with Controller function F12 as always on Class lights bug me.   The engine cab light is on in neutral and goes off after about 8 seconds in forward and reverse. I toned it way down.   I played with the rest of the up front lights and set them to my preferences.  With the Automatic Multiple Lights feature activated four states can be set.  Forward.  Reverse.  Neutral from Forward.  Neutral from Reverse.  For example I set the Mars light to be bright and oscillating in forward and dim an steady in the other three states.  Coulda been off in some.  Whatever, lots of combinations to play with.  Headlight bright, dim, dim, dim. 

As for looks.  I personally really like the satin finish.  It goes very well with my Atlas O California Zephyr cars.  If I owned it first thing I'd do is cut off the air hose on the front Kadee coupler for sure. Then maybe paint/weather the coupler or replace it.  Easy stuff.

As you can see from the pictures both trucks have pickups on both sides.  It has a horizontal drive train with metallic U joints connected to the can motor with Sunset's belt driven Quiet Drive.

The internal wiring is absolutely the best yet from Sunset.  Very neat and well stabilized with just one connector up front for all the lights and one at the rear for the magnetic reset reed relay.   Makes it easy to separate the shell if ever needed.

Enjoy, Austin Bill

Here's a link to a YouTube video of the E8A in action.  Once in YouTube be sure and select High Definition.  The lights are actually set to a pleasing low intensity when seen running on the layout.  They look way too bright in the video.  Gotta work on that.   You'll hear two different horns.  Pressing F11 toggles between the two. 

https://youtu.be/sP33kRVZewk

 

NOSE

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  • NOSE
  • LEFT SIDE VIEW
  • RIGHT  SIDE VIEW
  • FRONT TRUCK
  • CHASSIS BOTTOM
  • CHASSIS SHELL OFF
  • DRIVE TRAIN
Last edited by Austin Bill
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Nice clean drive train, if these have ball bearing journals you can't get much better .

14 years ago I did these ,Weaver , I removed the eye brows over the windshields , enlarged the windshields put in the black window grommet , lowered the body , added oil cooler line after I ground away the cast in ones , added exhaust stacks and lots of grab irons ,IMG_1083 Howard Zane bought them off of me .

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The Amtrak units will have the correct details for the era.  The only part that wasn't able to be done was the removal of the porthole windows as they are part of the basic tool.  There will be a different sample model at the York show if anyone is attending.  I don't remember which road name off the top of my head though.  Yes I realize it's a 3 rail show, but I'll be there with Bob Heil representing Sunset. 

Last edited by GG1 4877
645 posted:

Looks nice!  Am impressed that the later FRA-mandated grab irons / foot bar details are also being done to match the 1960's and later time period for certain units / timeframes. Most cab units are done in "as built" configuration so this is a nice bit of attention to detail which would be correct for the Amtrak version I have on order.

The Amtrak units will be UP E8s including the airfoils on the roof.   The plan is that there will be spare parts available to change the pilot to freight, delete the dynamic brake fans and the single steam generator for folks that want to change them for other versions.  The parts will not come with the models but available on request; at least that's the plan.

Austin Bill and Scott,

Very nice with great attention to detail. I agree with Simon Winter, the passenger pilot with doors that the buyer can either set in the open or close position would be better.

Also, the BURLINGTON ROUTE logo on the nose is missing. Maybe this being a pre-production version, the logo was never applied but make sure the the final production version has the logo.

Ray

rdunniii posted:
645 posted:

Looks nice!  Am impressed that the later FRA-mandated grab irons / foot bar details are also being done to match the 1960's and later time period for certain units / timeframes. Most cab units are done in "as built" configuration so this is a nice bit of attention to detail which would be correct for the Amtrak version I have on order.

The Amtrak units will be UP E8s including the airfoils on the roof.   The plan is that there will be spare parts available to change the pilot to freight, delete the dynamic brake fans and the single steam generator for folks that want to change them for other versions.  The parts will not come with the models but available on request; at least that's the plan.

are these close to being delivered?

Ray of sunshine posted:

Austin Bill and Scott,

Very nice with great attention to detail. I agree with Simon Winter, the passenger pilot with doors that the buyer can either set in the open or close position would be better.

Also, the BURLINGTON ROUTE logo on the nose is missing. Maybe this being a pre-production version, the logo was never applied but make sure the the final production version has the logo.

Ray

Ray,

You scared me for a moment!  I had to go back and check the drawings.  Yes, the Burlington Logo is on the nose in the artwork drawings.  It just got left off the pre-production sample.  However, thanks for pointing that out. 

Bill, thanks for this review. It's hard for me to find time to do this kind of promotion on top of production here. Speaks louder when it comes from a customer anyway.

The factory said it would be done with all the E89s end of April. So we should receive these by May 21st. The CB&Q model in this review was a pre production so some details were missing, ie the logo in the front, the vestibule in the back.

Seems like the Q3 level of sounds and operation are a big improvement over the previous software versions from QSI.  Also the all ball-bearing drive makes for a much stronger and responsive model both in 2 Rail and 3 Rail.

Off to the factory to start checking these.

Scott Mann - Qingdao, China

I was blessed as I saw them at the march meet and had to have some. CBQER, when you pre-order models from 3rd Rail you have a year or more to save your money. You can also make payments on it but it's up to you to keep track of how much you have on deposit with them. You are not required to make a deposit but you can do so if you wish?

Austin Bill posted:

...... I found it to run very smoothly starting with speed step 1 and throughout the speed range.  This with my NCE wireless cab set to 128 speed steps. ......

That's what I wanted to hear.

Did the 3rd Rail SD7/9 have the same internal mechanisms?  And the same DCC performance?

Thanks for the review and video, Bill.

Matt

645 posted:
Matt01 posted:
Did the 3rd Rail SD7/9 have the same internal mechanisms?    Matt

No, as Scott stated these E8/9's are the first to use this new ball bearing drive system which is improved over what was previously used which includes the SD7/9.

That is incorrect.  The SD7/9s have a ball bearing drive system too.  They were the first. 

http://www.3rdrail.com/instock.html#SD79

Last edited by GG1 4877

Since features of our diesel productions are in constant improvement mode, let me clarify for you. Each project has the same features of the project before it with the listed changes.

E7 First and Second Run: Plastic U-Joints, Canon Horizontal Drive, Friction Bearing with Journals. Ball Bearings for tank mounted shaft and each gearbox shaft.  QSI "Titan" Q2 Level Programming.

FL9, FT, FP7, F7 First Run: Metal U-Joints

SD79: Ball Bearing  Journals.

E89: QSI Q3 Level Programming, Dual Speaker System

F7 2ns Run, Alco PA Same as E89

 

 

I see one thing that must be changed.  The Mars headlight in the upper headlight enclosure must be vertically oriented, not horizontally.  Also, most railroads oriented the twin sealed beam headlight in the nose door horizontally, but there were exceptions.  Same goes for the twin sealed beam headlight on locomotives without a Mars light -- usually horizontal, but with exceptions.

It's a beautiful model, Scott.

Last edited by Number 90
Number 90 posted:

I see one thing that must be changed.  The Mars headlight in the upper headlight enclosure must be vertically oriented, not horizontally.  Also, most railroads oriented the twin sealed beam headlight in the nose door horizontally, but there were exceptions.  Same goes for the twin sealed beam headlight on locomotives without a Mars light -- usually horizontal, but with exceptions.

It's a beautiful model, Scott.E8-CBQ-COMPARE

I don't see it that way in my data:

E89-Headlight-Orientation

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  • E89-Headlight-Orientation
  • E8-CBQ-COMPARE
Last edited by sdmann

Perhaps this is a "duh" question, but just to be sure - does the 3-rail version have a fixed pilot as well?  It's something I've missed since moving back to O from HO.

I understand that any order at this point is standby, but if I want a 3-rail PRR tuscan 1-stripe, my reservation code would be PRRT1S, correct?

Thanks,

Joel

sdmann posted:

I don't see it that way in my data:

E89-Headlight-Orientation

I really hope that image of DL&W "808" was not used for any serious research as that is not an authentic DL&W locomotive.  It was a replica unit painted by the Central New York Railway Historical Society.  The same is true for DL&W "807".  The true DL&W E8a locomotives were numbered 810 though 820 inclusive.  Scott, can you publish the road numbers to be used on the DL&W locomotives?

sdmann posted:

Not to worry. Jonathan knows better. We know about all the recent repaints. DL&W numbers are 810-820. Scott

I think this would be a good time to tip our hats to Jonathan.  He has gone to great lengths to make the paint and lettering on previous Sunset diesels accurate right down to fine details.  He always has perfect compound curvature on the warbonnet stripe of Santa Fe passenger diesels and the stripe comes down off of the roof at exactly the right rivet on the roof hatch.  paint and striping for other railroads is treated with equal diligence.

Jonathan, your permanent record has been awarded ten merits for careful research and design of paint and striping, to maximize the authenticity of Sunset O gauge diesel locomotives.

Number 90 posted:
sdmann posted:

Not to worry. Jonathan knows better. We know about all the recent repaints. DL&W numbers are 810-820. Scott

Jonathan, your permanent record has been awarded ten merits for careful research and design of paint and striping, to maximize the authenticity of Sunset O gauge diesel locomotives.

I'll tip my hat as well. I expected nothing less from him. Standing applause for Jonathan! 

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