Sunset E-7 vs. Williams E-7 thoughts?

I have the B&O and several others in WBB, and I think they are exceptional value.

I added diaphragms to my sets, but nothing else.

I recall CandO on here did a nice fixed pilot job, with a cover over the front coupler, it looked great. With add-on grab rails, mars light, etched brass grills and a super sharp paint job, they are good enough for me. As soon as the new Aristo Train Engineer is released I will upgrade them and probably add smoke and sound.

I know Sunset do a beautiful job, but the scale size WBB, for the money, does it for me. I see Marty of Ma & Pa has some roads for $215, that is a bargain.

We have the handsome L&N E7s and have converted them to PS2. I actually was able to swap the complete innards of a RK diesel with the WBB set-up and reinstall each in the other locomotive!

Be aware however, that the WBB is slightly smaller than both the MTH and Lionel E series diesels. I tried to mix some awhile back and had to sell off the Williams because it didn't look right with the other two due to a noticeable size difference

This is like comparing a Cadillac to a Chevrolet. Both nice cars, but the Caddy is going to give you more because of the bucks involved. It is really not a fair comparison Williams to 3rd Rail. This is a case of you get what you pay for.

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies. 

I realize it isn't a straight apple-to-apple comparison as the Williams is priced at about $300 for a set while the Sunset model is priced at about $950 for a set.

As I run conventionally, TMCC doesn't weigh into the decision either.  The Williams engine seems to be more prototypical than many of their other offerings.  Sam notes that the WBB engine was smaller than the MTH and Lionel version, so this is probably the decision maker, as I might be able to add some details but can't change the size of the engine.

Jim

Jim,

I have a WBB E7 and also have a 3rd Rail E7 on pre-order for May delivery.

The 3rd Rail engine has a horizontal drive, meaning there's more room inside for the supplied crew cab and a larger speaker.

My WBB E7 was an unpowered unit, I bought a single "A" unit as I didn't want/need a "B" unit.  I then bought the power upgrade kit to power it.  I had to strip/repaint my WBB E7 to get in in Seaboard colors, the 3rd Rail engine is coming already painted.

I added the ERR Cruise Commander, MRC AC Sounder, and LED headlight, they added an additional $150 or so to the cost.  It's still conventional, just has cruise control.  The 3rd Rail engine comes with TMCC.

If I had known 3rd Rail was going to be doing a Seaboard E7 I would have not spent the money on the unpowered WBB E7, the power upgrade kit, the ERR Cruise kit, the MRC AC Sounder kit, or the few $$$ to put in LED lighting and to strip/repaint the engine and decal it.

I know my situation was not common, but you can see that to have a WBB engine that "comes close" to the 3rd Rail engine ends up costing close to the same amount of $$$.  I'd say MY WBB E7 ended up being about $100 less than the 3rd Rail version, and a LOT more work.

I'd still have to upgrade the WBB E7 to get it up to TMCC, so the end cost may even be more for a less detailed engine.

Well... you get what you pay for here. There really is NO comparison, as I have seen both sets. I would not hesitate to get the Sunset Models units, and just flat out go for it. Williams units are ...really not even close. Do you want scale models you won't look back on, or do you want the Williams, which will be needing alot of refinements (at least to me). That should answer your question. Buy the best and don't look back!!

Nothing personal here against any trains, just an opinion that stands on its own.

Don't forget that Williams is using a Freight Pilot and an ALCo Pa fuel tank on their E7's. Also ALL their models have the MARS/HEadlight configuration- prototypical or not. Only you can decide what's best!

Second.

Sam mentioned the size difference.  That is what stopped me - I believe that most Williams is undersized.  The exception may be the 773 replica with scale tender.

But then, most of my E-7s and PAs are 17/64 scale.

The comments about the WBB unit being undersize caught my attention, so I took some measurements.

The May 1986 Mainline Modeler has an article about the EMD E7 with 3/16"=12" drawings.

The distance between truck centers:

1:1 - 43'-0"

WBB - 41'-0"     2 feet short

Center of truck to anti-climber:

1:1 - 13'-0"

WBB - 13'-0"     same

Center of truck to rearend:
1:1 - 12'-1-3/4"

WBB - 12'-1-3/4"     same

Height:

1:1 - 13'-0"

WBB - 13'-0"     same

Width:

1:1 - 10'-0"

WBB 10'-0"     same

The only "BIG" difference I could find is in the truck center spacing, making the WBB unit 1/2" short.

I have a MTH Railking F3 that's 8 feet (2") short between the trucks, so the WBB unit being 1/2" short to me isn't so bad, but enough to make me glad I pre-ordered the 3rd Rail unit anyway .

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the addition replies.  I guess its not too suprising that the distance between the truck centers on the WBB is closer than prototypical, as I'm guessing this helps the model negotiate sharper curves? 

While I haven't yet done the coupler/fixed pilot thing, I'm at the point that I like my models to have an approximation of the real thing, thus the WBB model is a no go.  It looks like I likely won't preorder the Sunset model as well, because of train funds (Sunset T-3 just arrived, the GDD Columbian cars are on pre-order, and I need to order more track and swithces for the layout expansion.)

While the Sunset E-7s are gorgous, maybe a pair of F3's is a better fit for my layout anyway, as this is what the B&O ran the first 4 or 5 years with the streamline passenger cars, and, a pair of F3's would fit on my turntable.

Jim