Sunset Southern Pacific Cab Forwards

You are on the 2-rail site.  Most of us know nothing about 3-rail control systems or their value.

Early Sunset used brass axle gears - they would fail after about an hour or two.  Later models used bronze, which lasts forever.

The 3rd Rail models that came painted and lettered are superb models, and have been mistaken by experts for PSC.  My impression is that $1200 is tops for a 2-rail.

@bob2 posted:

You are on the 2-rail site.  Most of us know nothing about 3-rail control systems or their value..

That’s a good thing, because I am not interested in TMCC or DCS or any other proprietary 3-rail control system either. I made it very clear (I thought) in my opening sentence that my question was about 2-rail items.

The company called “3rd rail, a division of Sunset Models”, a company whose products you claim to be very familiar with, commonly goes by the names “Sunset Models” and “3rd Rail” interchangeably.

Very sorry for any confusion my post may have caused.

@bob2 posted:

Early Sunset used brass axle gears - they would fail after about an hour or two.  Later models used bronze, which lasts forever.

This is extremely good to know! Thanks

@bob2 posted:

My impression is that $1200 is tops for a 2-rail.

My apologies Bob, but I have seen cab forwards in 2-rail made by Sunset Models (aka 3rd Rail) have retail prices of $1799 and $1999, and have seen them go at auction WITHIN THE LAST WEEK for over $2500. I can provide a link to recent catalogs if you like.

Just from memory, I can't recall Sunset/3rd Rail offering any O Scale models, either in 2-Rail or 3-Rail, of the later/larger Southern Pacific cab forwards (such as the AC-6 through the AC-12).

Hi Jay,

Sunset Third Rail produced the AC-4s, -5s, and -6s in the late 1990s. I have an AC-4 and a friend has an AC-5 from that run. He paid $1430 new in September 1998. I got mine second-hand for $1250 several years later. The 2-rail models came factory-painted DC only (no DCC or sound). The AC-4 and -5 are flat-face, the -6 has the more modern round-front cab.

You should ask the seller what sound decoder is in the model you are considering. At one time, I had an AC-6 with owner-installed DCC and sound, but it had two decoders, an NCE 408 to run the motor and lights and a Soundtraxx DSX for sound. The loco ran well but the sound was very rudimentary - whistle, bell, and two-cylinder chuff only. To get sound where the exhaust changes based on the load on the motor (going up or down a grade, heavy train) you would have to install a modern decoder with all functions in one unit. Opinion: $1700 is a bit high if you have to replace the decoder(s) to get good sound. I added DCC and sound to the AC-4 using a QSI Titan (four-cylinder chuff) with two speakers. I did that work myself and the cost was about $250 for the parts. It would be quite a bit more if you have the work done by an installer.

As Bob2 mentioned, there have been some gear box failures. I have had to replace gear boxes in several Sunset and Sunset Third Rail locos. This would be something else to ask the seller about.

You also mentioned the Sunset AC-12. These were produced by Sunset (before Third Rail) back in the late 1980s or early 1990s along with the AC-7. Both of mine had to have gear box replacements.

Opinion: Generally, the Sunset Third Rail locomotives (steam and diesel) run well right out of the box, not like some of the mega-dollar others which have so much under-body detail that you need a sharp pair of diagonal cutters to get rid of all the electrical shorts.

Good luck with it,

Jerry Davis

Thanks Jerry. I examined some more pictures, and it appears this loco is late 1990s as you mention. For some reason I thought that Sunset changed to these newer looking boxes more like around 2005.

But I found a picture of packing materials that came with this locomotive, and there is a brouchure that says "coming in late 2000" (referring to another model).

Also Jerry you kind of answered one of my other questions. $1400 new, then DCC and sound added, makes $1700 a fair price IF I don't have to upgrade. My thought is that even if I have to upgrade the decoder, the wiring would already be done, which would save some of the headache.

I greatly appreciate you response.

Jay - your third response to my post indicates that you think this is a good price.  If so, go for it.  You did ask for opinions.  I stick with mine.  These are truly good locomotives.