CAB2 Tactile Touch Adapter Ideas

I guess I missed this because it didn't have a Legacy tag associated with it.  It's a thought.  I'm not sure all the buttons are the issue.  Just seems like the throttle and other heavily used buttons would be the main items.  At least we're thinking about this.  I had the same thought about the clamping parts but these would also have the controls associated with the ones that surround the numeric keypad on CAB2.

@MartyE posted:

At least we're thinking about this. 

No bad ideas in brainstorming! I think brainstorming is the sharing of ideas that are related but off topic to come up with better ideas.

The difference in models of phones/tablets are the enormous flaw in my idea. I really like the dock you posted because then it's a matter of the plugs (USB B/C and the Apple styles). A handful of plugs would be easier to compensate for instead of compensating for hundreds of different sized screens/models. Do you know how difficult the programming is to route from the app to the external controller? I would think you need the source code for the app but I haven't dabbled in app development in about 6 years. And that was just design GUI's. I never did anything more complicated than that.

I'll be honest I don't know how this would connect as I haven't done any development.  I was just thinking if I would make a physical dock what would it resemble.  I am certain based on those that discussed the video game controller option that the control portion is do-able.  Whether someone wants to invest time and money in a dedicated dock is another story.

Without a display, I suspect most of the hardware controls are available. 

I'm pretty sure you just put the plug in the hand held adapter that has the controls. Attach the phone. Then I think the app has to be programmed to look for input from the adapter OR the screen. In a perfect world, Lionel would oblige us and add this functionality if that's how it works. The Android app designer used to be available for free. After that, you would need your components and the body could be 3D printed. I suppose you could go a step further and use wifi/bluetooth to connect the adapter to the phone but I don't know how that works.

My point of view is that any 3rd party thing like this will be community driven, not driven by a business. That's why I haven't been overly worried about the CAB2 going away. I prefer a controller over my phone but I'll just make a controller if I can't get one. It might be chunky like my original post or it might be sleek like your idea. If video game controllers can be ported to run the trains, then I hope and assume this gizmo could be built.

I was thinking the controller would be battery powered and then use BlueTooth to the phone.  No physical connection or adapters would be required.  The only requirement would to be physically able to dock the phone or smart device.  Not sure how this affects the BT control of engines.  Is this the way the controllers operate now over BT or some other connection?

Just some food for thought - Pairing a MFI controller (typically used for xbox, PS4, etc) might be a starting point for controlling the smart device app with a tactile controller.  I don't know if this capability has to built into the app software, or if the user can map physical buttons to app controls.   You could design a more train appropriate controller using the guts from a MFI controller. 

Below is a video from BlueRail showing this concept:

Well there ya go @JD2035RR. I think a lot of people would jump at the chance to use a controller like that over a plain screen. Having a CAB2 inspired controller would be the best possible option. I can't help but feel like Lionel should entertain using the same method from that video in their own app. Buying a cheap controller online would be an excellent alternative to using a flat screen. I specifically don't like the flat screen because I can't feel for the buttons. I don't have to look at the CAB2 while operating my locomotives. I wouldn't have to look at an MFI controller.

The question is: if Lionel added bluetooth MFI functionality to their app, would we be able to hijack a transmitter from the MFI controller and add our own look and controls?

The video was neat.  However, I did not see a coupler control.

When I first read Bill's post back in January I was surprised he got no response.  For me, when doing switching operations I use:  Whistle/horn, bell, throttle, reverse, and couplers.  If the controller you guys come up with has these that would be great.

Bill,

I like your idea.

I'm also going to put these back on the table as well, (and there are several others out there in addition, including @JD2035RR's previously-mentioned wireless gaming controller):

These do have problems.  For one they're not one-handed solutions.

See the original thread:

        Remotes/TIUs - Any future? | U. John Biffoni

Mike

I am no developer, but it appears relatively simple to add MFI capability to the Apple Xcode: https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=hk2u622s

@Dave Olson, do you anticipate this being a feature of the new Cab3 app, update to Lionchief app, or at least something to look into?

@JD2035RR posted:

I am no developer, but it appears relatively simple to add MFI capability to the Apple Xcode: https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=hk2u622s

@Dave Olson, do you anticipate this being a feature of the new Cab3 app, update to Lionchief app, or at least something to look into?

I believe Dave did indicate they would possibly look into that on one of the Demos with Dave shows.

Here was my brainstorming... as you can see it was more of an afternoon drizzle.

@CAPPilot building a button adapter for a few functions shouldn't be an issue. I would settle for that as well until we could come up with a better remote.

@Mellow Hudson Mike well look at these fancy controllers! I'm not familiar with the first one you posted. I'll have to search it. But I have a Moto phone. I didn't know that made a big gamepad type thing for it. I would be interested in finding out if that attachment would work directly with the app. It might give us a clue on how to do a homebrew version for other phones if it does work stock with the app. I will read the thread at the dentist office this afternoon!

@Dave Olson Honestly Dave, it might be worth the time to convince the right people to look into this. I'm not sure if the programming is your baby or someone else but you could calm down the hoards of CAB2 hold outs with this option. It's an excellent compromise and a potential source of revenue for Lionel if the component cost/availability was appropriate.

@MartyE you call it a drizzle but I thought it was clever. I didn't think of it haha and it immediately got me thinking that my idea had room for improvement.

EDIT: Well here we go. I would settle for this.

I'm a bit concerned with go-forward being mobile device based control.  We all know that in 10 years nothing will be compatible with today's technology.  One of the things I value about Lionel trains is that I've been able to operate the same stuff for 50+ years.  Is there any guarantee that there will be a smart device I can run my trains from 2022 on?  Having the CAB2 ensured we always had something in hand (as long as it was functional) to run our trains.  The same problem exists for LCS equipment relying on WiFi and the Lionel App.  Are these things REALLY going to stand the test of time like 50+ year old lionel trains?  I'm thinking not.  I'm still a fan of a proprietary, built for trains hand controller.

Call me old fashioned.

@LionelAG I'm not an expert but I figure as long as Lionel is putting their app on a mobile device, it should always be possible to build an analog counterpart to go between. You might need a converter gizmo when Bluetooth 52.2 comes out but you're trying to run your Blue 5.0 device but we'll figure that out when we get there. If we start implanting smart phones into our spine, things might get a little tricky

Basically I'm saying that I think we'll be ok one way or another.

@BillYo414 posted:

@LionelAG I'm not an expert but I figure as long as Lionel is putting their app on a mobile device, it should always be possible to build an analog counterpart to go between. You might need a converter gizmo when Bluetooth 52.2 comes out but you're trying to run your Blue 5.0 device but we'll figure that out when we get there. If we start implanting smart phones into our spine, things might get a little tricky

Basically I'm saying that I think we'll be ok one way or another.

As long as Lionel is still in business.  In my lifetime, they came back from the dead.  Sorry to be chicken little.

MartyE's concept art is sort of what I would like.  The way I would do it, it would have just a throttle knob, horn/whistle slider, boost/reverse/brake rocker, and the emergency stop button, although I would put the emergency button beneath the throttle in a recessed area to minimize accidental pressing.  The big appeal of something like this, to me, is keeping the one-handed use and tactile ability to control the trains without having to constantly look at the screen.  Perhaps it could even be user-configurable as to which side the slider and rocker are located so that the left-handed can have easier one-handed use.  Keeping these controls to one side only would allow for phones of a lot of different sizes to be used, and keeping the number of buttons and controls to a minimum would also help keep costs down.  And it the costs are low, I can easily see people buying multiples of these controllers.  I know I would buy two or three so I have backups, and I can see layout owners and clubs buying a half dozen or more, provided a trial/minimized version of software is available for guests to use.

In addition, a device like this could also be used with other app-based controls like DCS and DCC, and make it truly universal.  Maybe a joint venture could spread the R&D out?

Andy

@Andy Hummell posted:

MartyE's concept art is sort of what I would like.  The way I would do it, it would have just a throttle knob, horn/whistle slider, boost/reverse/brake rocker, and the emergency stop button, although I would put the emergency button beneath the throttle in a recessed area to minimize accidental pressing.  The big appeal of something like this, to me, is keeping the one-handed use and tactile ability to control the trains without having to constantly look at the screen.  Perhaps it could even be user-configurable as to which side the slider and rocker are located so that the left-handed can have easier one-handed use.  Keeping these controls to one side only would allow for phones of a lot of different sizes to be used, and keeping the number of buttons and controls to a minimum would also help keep costs down.  And it the costs are low, I can easily see people buying multiples of these controllers.  I know I would buy two or three so I have backups, and I can see layout owners and clubs buying a half dozen or more, provided a trial/minimized version of software is available for guests to use.

In addition, a device like this could also be used with other app-based controls like DCS and DCC, and make it truly universal.  Maybe a joint venture could spread the R&D out?

Andy

Andy

Although not obvious from this concept drawing, the thought I had is the 2 side "wings" where the horn and train brake sliders are would be able to be widened to support bigger devices.  They would also be interchangeable to allow for left or right handed controls.  Again not sure any of this is possible but from a far view it seems like it should be.  Crazy ideas but isn't that how the wheel was invented?  I would think there would be minimal electronics in the controller, just enough to support the hardware buttons and communication to the smart device.

The problem with making something like this though is the same issue Lionel and MTH have in making remotes, limited audience.  The game controller though has a super huge audience.

@LionelAG posted:

As long as Lionel is still in business.  In my lifetime, they came back from the dead.  Sorry to be chicken little.

No harm in chicken little. I forgot the living dead fact. Who knows! Maybe we'll wind up with purdy paper weights after all. But I won't pass up the good times while I can get them.

@Andy Hummell having it reconfigurable would be pretty cool and pretty handy.