TCA Dues to increase - Your thoughts

Hey Mike, I'm curious, What is your TCA number? Thanks.

Smarter move would have been to require the new $50 membership for those who are willing to renew only by 1 yr increments, and a sliding discount to those who are willing to renew for multi yrs. But of course, multi year renewals have never (to my knowledge) been offered by the TCA.

Their assertion that they expect to see a 10% membership decline due to the rise in membership fee is just too slick & self serving for words. To my knowledge there has been no survey taken as to why members are leaving and no announcement for such if in fact a further acceleration in membership loss does ensue. 

No survey is really need to provide a fair and reasonable estimate.  Some members will leave because an additional $15 a year affronts them (for whatever reason).  More than that disgruntled number will depart through the natural attrition that is impacting every segment of this hobby, including advanced age and health concerns, death, change in lifestyle/downsizing, and, yes, perhaps some whose fixed income simply forces them to limit some discretionary expenses.

Those born in the World War II and immediate postwar periods will know and understand exactly what I am referring to.  Younger folks may not recognize, understand, or even accept what is happening, but they will nevertheless eventually see the impact.

That, as I've said so often before, is NOT a prediction of gloom and doom for the hobby.  It's just a recognition of an inevitable change that must be accommodated by the TCA and, of course, by those who produce things for the hobby and those who consume those things.  This hobby has a long life ahead of it.  It just will be a bit different than it was in the period between, say, the late 1980s through the first decade of the current century.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. Majority of the members live in those states that have been long time users of Lionel and the lot. Having the museum and York meet is a big plus for them. Some of us out west do not see much value of that here due to the extra costs of going. I haven't run across anyone here where I live that has been to either place. Did run across a dealer on the coast that had been there but he said it was many years ago. THe said too much in costs and time.

I wonder how many folks would change their tune if the museum were say in Denver and the York event was there too?  A few guys that I chatted with locally thought that would be nifty but we all know that sure will not happen ! 

The museum should be on a pay as you go bases and not put on everyone's tab.

I like the basic TCA membership but since but since I'm have been on a fixed income for a good number of years and have to use my available money to get the most from it as I can not be paying for something that has little value to me or to subside someone else's enjoyment. I have dropped the local newspaper along with other things that have raised their costs as I can not support everything..  

I signed up this year and most likely would have did it again next year but the value is just too little to spend the additional bucks.

 Looks like some of folks would gladly pay more, $50-75 but how many made a donation to TCA? Not very many I bet ! That might of helped?

Hey, if you have a different story, I'm okay with that too.   TOF

Having a lot of issues with my ISP so this is the first time I could respond.

I read with interest the message from the TCA president. Like many members I joined so that I could attend the semi-annual York Eastern Division meet.  While I don't like the increase it seems that the the BOD has been able to justify it in a very creative way.

I just wonder if they looked at other alternatives.

I would suggest if it has not already been posted that all members pay the same price. Eliminate the senior discount and all household member discounts. If members and spouses or significant others are involved in the hobby why not pay for two member ships or at least something more than just $2.00? Eliminate the discount for associate members, whoever they are.

Maybe by making everyone who wants to be a member pay the same price the dues increase could be reduced from the current 43% to something more reasonable. Who knows depending on how many members enjoy a discount if they were eliminated perhaps there would be no need to increase the dues at all.

Although I have no problem whatsoever with the increase to $50 per year (and have even advocated a higher fee), I'm unaware that there are lower fees available to seniors, etc.  I sure qualify for senior status (fortunately or unfortunately), but I pay the same annual dues as any other member.

There is a slight senior discount for York Meet registration, but that's a different ballgame.

Allan has it right there are no discounts to senior members. York which is run by the eastern division does offer discounts.

 If you are a member of the TCA for 25 years, and reach a certain age, there is a discount, or at least there was a discount. Not sure if this rule still applies, but I believe  it does.  A discount also applies to the York Meet. 

Jack 

I have read the various comments here about the increase in TCA dues. I thought it might be interesting to look at what the annual costs to be a member of the TCA are if one participates in the TCA events listed below. 

TCA Membership $50

Division Membership - $10? (That is if the Cotton Belt Division can get its act together and collect the dues )

Admission and table at the local Casey Jones Chapter TCA meet - $16 X 5 meets = $80

TCA  Convention fee, Meet and Greet, Banquet, and maybe a tour - approx. $250, not including a trading hall table, or bringing the wife along plus travel, hotel, and meals.

$50 is just a small part ofthe cost to be a member of the TCA and participating in the various activities that are offered.

I have been a member since 1986, and I have no plans to bail out now as a result of the dues increase. However, I do question the reasons given for the increase and the seemingly endlss inability of our nationl headquarters to get its financial act together.

Thanks,

Richard Gonzales

.

Allen,

Many of us are members of the LCCA also, maybe you are too. I can not recall the number of current members, but I do remember seeing applications for membership taken at the convention hotel. Now someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe once you pay your initial application fees you are a member and are invited to participate in convention activities. Of course there fees for  banquit and other convention activities.

The LCCA makes membership easy.

As TCA members we took too long to open up our membership policy by eliminating the two active member sign off policy. Now we find ourself in a graying club with falling membership and a National Headquarters that cannot seem to react to change in a timley manner.

Thanks,

Richard Gonzales

If there is such a policy, and I'm not sure whether there is or not, it's certainly not one to quibble about.  Any organization like the TCA that retains a member for 25+ years is to be commended for offering such a benefit.  Besides, the number of individuals eligible would likely be quite small and relatively insignificant.

Heck, I've been a member of USAA--my insurance company--for going on 50 years, and I receive a healthy discount on premiums each year now for having retained that membership for 40+ years.  Continued loyalty has its rewards, as well it should.

Allan,

I sincerely doubt that there will be those who understand your statemant. I was born in 1943 and I truely understand. The "Baby Boomer's" are about fizzled out.

So Allan, what's the discount on OGR for long-term subscribers? And how long do we have to have been subscribers?

Gerry

I'll have to look that up.  I think it's something like if you've been a regular subscriber for 50+ years, you're subscription is free.  It might be 75 years though...I'll have to check.  

Well done Allan and answered in the spirit in which it was intended.

I'd much rather see you guys be in (paper) print and charge whatever is needed than go the way of some other publications. I feel the same way about the TCA issues and their dues.

Gerry

Believe me, Gerry, that's my desire as well.  If/when we go 100% digital, I'll know it's time to hang it up, stay home, and play trains (not an altogether undesirable outcome).  Might still have another book or three in me to write, too.  

One thing to keep is mind here.

Anyone who works for any of the manufacturers, vendors or magazines associated with the model railroad hobby can right off the total cost of any professional memberships like the TCA, LCCA and LOTS, on their federal income tax filing if they itemize,along with all costs either reimbursed by their employers or through a tax deduction for attending any model railroad related activity including York Eastern division meet and any chapter meets along with national and regional train show.

I suppose one can, but I haven't bothered with that on my taxes.  I have listed specific tools or items needed for my work--annual fee for GoToMyPC, for example--but I pay my own TCA membership.  OGR pays for York registration for our group.  I also claim deductions for legitimate contributions, such as to the NMRA's museum display fundraising effort.

Good thing, otherwise they would owe me rebates for a few years. 

That's your decision not to take the deduction but it is available to you since the TCA and other organizations that you belong to are related to your work. When I worked in building materials my memberships in the AIA and CSI were both tax deductible business expenses.

I made a suggestion to a friend who is a Lionel Service center that he get an EIN from the IRS and set up as Service Station #?. Then all of his expenses related to the business would be deductible.

I had a side line several years ago, Commercial Orchid Nursery located in Harleysville PA. We wrote off all expenses related to the business including the membership in the American Orchid Society.

I would suggest that anyone who has a legitimate business related to the model train hobby get an EIN and set up as a sole proprietorship under IRS rules then all related expenses including travel to York will be fully deductible.

I just renewed my membership today - didn't hurt a bit.

Registering for York and paying dues as usual. We also opt to pay dues for our older children to financially support the TCA. God bless the TCA...and the USA.  I really wish this thread would disappear.  

Raising dues could actually have the opposite effect on raising overall revenue.  People may decide that it is not worth the $50 and while they will get more per person, they have less people renewing or joining.

Leaving the dues where they are, would have no perceivable change from the status quo which apparently isn't working.

Lowing dues may actually entice new membership (what they want) and encourage the few people on the fence to stay in.  If enough new people join even at the lower dues, they may actually make take-in more than raising it with less people.

The magic comes from raising or lowing the dues the right amount and see what happens.

If it were me and my decision alone, I would lower the rates and have members spread the word to bring in more people since the cost would be reduced (even if temporary like for a year or two).  Then you can slowly increase the dues back up if still needed.

Another incentive would be to give members a small finders fee for recruiting new members offsetting their own membership fees.

In my opinion they don't need more members; they need more devoted members, even if the total membership number is lower.

Seems like these days everybody seems to want something for nothing, or next to nothing.  

I've only been a member for two years. I was on the fence about paying an initiation fee, and when they waived it, I joined as fast as I could fill out the form (it took roughly a week to get the two signatures).

One thing I haven't figured out is to whom do you send suggestions? Ranting about it on a forum not run by them hasn't seemed to change anything yet (though it seems that cell phones are allowed at that Eastern division meet). My favorite cost saving measure would be for at least two issues a year place the Quarterly and the Newsletter in the same mailer. It seems that twice a year I get the two about a week apart. I have to believe that it would save money doing one mailing instead of two.

J White

Lets end this thread, if you don't want to pony up a lousy $15.00 to be part of one of the great train clubs around then all I can say is don't renew. 

I will renew this year and every year I am able to. How can I not, I'm having way too much fun.

No reason to end the thread, David.  A discussion forum is just that...an opportunity to express diverse points of view so long as they are presented in a civil manner.

I, like you, don't understand all the fussing and whining over a meager $15 increase in dues (less than 4 gallons worth of regular gas), but some folks will cry over just about anything these days.

The beauty of all these clubs and organizations is that membership is 100% voluntary.  Nobody is compelled to join, and nobody is compelled to retain their membership.  For those who find little or no value in belonging, the solution couldn't be more simple.

Allan,

And a devoted member is:

- A member of the TCA for 27 years

- Supports the local TCA chapter and Division

- Attends TCA conventions when possible and even helps to take and operate a modular layout

-Attends York when possible, and yes, even make an obligatory visit the TCA Museum

- Encourages others to join

-spend every weekend during the month of October helping to operate a modular layout at a Memphis museum in an effort to promote this hobby and TCA membership

This devoted member is only asking for accountability from our leadership. In an earlier post here I asked for someone to tell me what we will do without as members if dues are not increased. So far I have only been told that I should not complain, it’s only a few dollars and everything will be ok.

I think my opinion is in the minority here, but that is ok. I think we have had a healthy debate here, and maybe this thing will roll over onto page 3, or better yet we could catch up to and surpass that "Intermodal Primer “post.

Thank,

Richard

PS:

Allan -

USAA Member here for  36 years – Cars, House and Life – and there is a discount when I hit 40 years? Maybe I can cash in on that “subscriber savings account.”

Keep in mind that the leadership is elected, not appointed.  And we, as members, are the folks who elect these leaders.  Presumably, we elect those we trust and who we feel will best serve the interests of the organization.  Works this way with all groups of this type.

Officers and boards of officers are elected to make decisions about the governance and normal operations of the organization.  They do not owe us detailed explanations for every decision that the duly elected and duly constituted board decides to make.

Naturally, there will always be those who feel the need to second-guess these decisions.  That is why there is the opportunity to elect new officers on a regular basis, and the opportunity for any member to run for office and to serve.

I am not a TCA member, but I think the true cause is being overlooked.

Since 2008, it now costs me close to 40% more just to maintain the essentials of existence. It took most of my life to see that type of cost-of-living increase and then it increased that much in less than 5 years. If your situation is different, let's us know. Well, it's no different for the TCA.

I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on TCA decisions. It just simply costs more to keep what they have. There are no new buildings, no large increases of staff, no increases in activities. They have most likely deferred planned activities due to budget pressures.

Pay the new dues and enjoy what they provide.  

Allan, I think your use of the term 'devoted' really hit the nail on the head!

In the survey about what our plans are relative to staying or not, I answered UNDECIDED.  Why?  Because my ONLY incentive to stay is to be able to go to the York meet.

I'm not a collector.  I don't have a layout.  I don't have an obsessive interest in toy trains (obsessive is not the right word but a better one isn't coming to me).  I don't do the types of things that a person 'devoted' to the hobby does.  Thus the TCA doesn't offer me anything except for York.

If one thinks about a 'club' and why one would join it, doesn't it come down to wanting to participate in the things that the members in that club do and enjoying the things the members share an interest in?  If you don't care to do those things or share that interest, then why would one join the club?  They shouldn't

So I agree with your term 'devoted'.

- walt

"it now costs me close to 40% more just to maintain the essentials of existence. It took most of my life to see that type of cost-of-living increase and then it increased that much in less than 5 years. If your situation is different, let's us know."

Curious about what's included for you (seriously).  The CPI has gone up less than 2% a year, and although that doesn't include lots of important things, housing and heating/A/C costs certainly have gone down rather than up in the last five years for most folks.  Rentals are up in some areas, but not most.  Food is surely up? Healthcare is surely up?  What's going on in your budget?

I may not be entirely typical as I'm still employed and have employer provided health insurance, but my living costs are roughly about the same as they were 5 years ago, give or take, with the exception of perhaps food, which is probably up.  Health insurance is up too, but not a lot.

In our house, we have seen increases in the following:

 -- Electricity (increase of about 20%)

 -- Gasoline (I don't want to calculate the increase for sake of sanity).  Overall we spend several hundred dollars a month more on fuel than in the past.

 -- Groceries (up 25%)

 -- Services:  lawn service, cleaning service, anyone who comes to the house to fix anything wants signficantly more than a few years ago.  On average I would say it is 20%.  Some add gas surcharges, others just increase the cost of the service generally.  No doubt largely related to energy.

 -- Health insurance:  cost of our plan has gone up modestly, but deductibles have increased across the board.  Hard to calculate a percentage here, but I would ballpark it in the neighborhood of $500 a year.

 -- Taxes:  state income taxes increased twice, property taxes have stayed level.  Federal income taxes have increased by virtue of the unpatched AMT and this year anticipating new ACA related taxes. 

While the increase in TCA dues is not significant from a sheer dollars perspective, and I doubt it would be significant for the vast majority of people, the reality is that many people, myself included, feel as if we have been a bit "under siege" the last few years and so I look very close at any cost increases of any service.  With TCA, the email we all received explained their situation rather well -- at least I thought so -- but at the same time as I said once before on this topic the real issue to me is whether the organization is being mismanaged and no one really cares because the people making the decisions are not making those decisions with their money and the accountability in these types of organizations is generally lacking, as most members simply don't pay attention.  That is why while I don't disagree with the thought conveyed that it is a small increase, I do disagree with the sentiment that we should all be unconcerned because it is only $15 a year. That attitude breeds all kinds of mischief and mismanagement.  Members have to hold the leadership accontable less the organization lapse into what is essentially a private club run for the benefit of the insiders.  That's my .02.   

I'm in the group with RL NYC as far as across-the-board increases are concerned, but not in any concern over TCA dues.  I've seen increases--sometimes substantial--in the cost of electricity (even with new energy efficient appliances installed in the past couple of years, gasoline (big time increases), food (ditto, even though I thankfully don't eat much and rarely dine out), services (I have served on two boards and everything has gone up), health insurance premiums (supplemental), and taxes.  Can't really think of a single area where costs have gone down.

"I do disagree with the sentiment that we should all be unconcerned because it is only $15 a year."

That's what I think too. Where does it stop or slowdown?   TOF

I did not renew my LRRC membership (now there is something with no value); so renewing my TCA membership at the new rate I am still coming out ahead.

As I've mentioned several times in this thread, it's perfectly okay to not renew your membership.  No need to justify anything or to explain yourself.  Most of the participants on this forum won't even know whether you did or did not renew, and even fewer will care the least bit.