TCA Dues to increase - Your thoughts

quote:

What are all those non-joiners going to do now? Will they join? Na! There going to start carping about the new membership fee keeping people out.

Good point, bigo426.  You're probably quite right about that.  Any excuse they can dig up will likely be applied.

Yep, there are still people complaining about the cell phone rule, even though it has been lifted.

In the latest issue of The Quarterly, I see the TCA president is also expressing a desire--personal on his part--that the no-cameras rule be disposed of at some point.

Remember, the York Meet is NOT under the control of TCA National, so the rules are established by the Eastern Division, which sponsors the meet.

Still, that rule is the logical focus of future "campaigns" urging rule changes that would likely benefit the organization and its members.

Crunch Time! we will see if/when the the increase to $50/yr begins to be be reflected back to York meet attendance numbers. That effect probably will not be fully recognized until the Y04/2014 meet.

Guaranteed the leadership of the Eastern Division will not permit National to trash its balance sheet, as it is supported by the York meet numbers/cash flow.

Anyone who responds with a "never say never" (particularly those who are not members of the ED) is whistling past what might yet become the National's graveyard rubble.

(ex) TCA 95-xxxxx ...

I don't have the pie chart in front of me, but I believe one of the smaller pieces was paying whatever remained of the loan that was required during the sewer project.  I do not believe the TCA simply had a bag of cash laying around to pay for it straight out when it was being done.

-Dave

The dues increase is not a problem for me but I can understand folks on fixed incomes being unable to afford the increase.  At least they have a choice.  There are many necessities, such as food, medicine and utilities that increase in cost and don't leave much of an option.

Sorry, but I have a hard time understanding how an additional $15 a year in dues could have much impact even on folks who are on fixed incomes.  Those $50 a year dues are probably less than half of what most folks pay each and every month for their cable bill, for one decent meal out, or for one tank of gas.

However, if there are people for whom less than $1 a month makes a big difference in their lives, they have my sincere sympathies.  They truly are living on the edge.

I think it is safe to say that the Eastern Division is among the richest of any of the divisions. I'm sure that the York meet contributes a great deal to their bottom line.

I never said I was not going to renew, just that I plan to wait until January.

As Sally Struthers used to sat.

"For less than $4.15 a month, you can be a member of the TCA and send Thomas to York."

$4.15 buys

1-Big Mac

4-99 cent 4 piece chicken nugget

1-Beer

2-cuts of Beto's Pizza with pepperoni

And right there is why Marty is not renewing, it cuts into his Beto's fund

Allan,

"However, if there are people for whom less than $1 a month makes a big difference in their lives, they have my sincere sympathies.  They truly are living on the edge."

Do you pay your own TCA dues or does your employer pay them for you?

Robert

quote:

I don't have the pie chart in front of me, but I believe one of the smaller pieces was paying whatever remained of the loan that was required during the sewer project. 

I am positive that the folks running the TCA are good people who are doing what they believe is best for the organization.

That written, I believe that a pie chart, without backing documentation is not particularly meaningful.
In order to create the pie chart, expenses had to be catagorized. Who knows what went into each catagory?

It is only 15.00 more, but that comes due all at one time each year. That may hurt some folks budget. I will still pay it, but don't like it.

Rob

I pay my own dues, just like I always have since day one of joining the TCA.

OGR pays for my York Meet registration, whether I attend or not, but that's it.

Why are we still arguing over the member increase? It is now in place, so either pay the increase or don't. The TCA had to do what they had to do, live with it. I voted to raise the fee to $75.00 but I agreed the $50.00 was more reasonable. 

Many other organizations charge allot more than the TCA. I belonged to a car club in the 80's and 90's and the yearly fee was $100.00.  Professional organizations  that I belonged to also charged allot more and no my company did not pay for those. 

The TCA gives me allot more then the other organizations ever did, I have fun, meet other people, the chance to go to York. This is a great hobby and the TCA just makes it better IMO. 

Allan, I think that's a poor attitude to take with folks where $$$ are at a real premium today.  Just because $15 doesn't fill up a tank of gas anymore -- for me it's just over a 1/4-tank -- we're supposed to happily fork it over to the TCA?  As if they're gonna do something more useful with it???  How many more entities are gonna "up the ante" with the thought that, "Well... it's ONLY a few dollars, blah, blah, blah...".     The place I go for a haircut just increased prices by $2 last month, and they were telling customers... "What can you do with $2 today?" (as if they had to defend the increase).  See how that rationale can get old fast? 

My TCA membership doesn't renew until June/July of next year.  And honestly, I'm not sure if I'll renew or not yet.  I can UNCONDITIONALLY say that, if it weren't for York, I'd be gone in a NY minute.  But I also have no problem admitting I'd probably never have joined in the first place if it weren't for York.  That being the case... if I want to continue attending York, I guess the "attendance fee" just went up $7.50 per meet.    That's the healthiest way I can look at it.  Just being honest.

David

quote:

But I also have no problem admitting I'd probably never have joined in the first place if it weren't for York.  That being the case... if I want to continue attending York, I guess the "attendance fee" just went up $7.50 per meet.    That's the healthiest way I can look at it.  Just being honest.

As I've posted before, I'd like to see the Eastern Division raise the attendance fee for York, and donate all the increased proceeds to TCA National. I am an Eastern Division member, and often attend York (but not every time).

Wow.  We are STILL debating this???

Want to go to York or participate in TCA activities?  Pay the new dues.

Don't?  Then don't pay it.

The increase has been implemented. 

It's really time to move on to a topic of much more relevance. 

George

That says it very well.

Nobody is debating anything here.  We're simply commenting on the fact that the recent TCA "dues increase" is essentially a York "admission's fee increase".  Although it's probably never been officially measured, I'm willing to bet that a substantial segment of TCA members join simply as a means of attending York.

Yes... I realize the TCA "charter" is more than that, and TCA National sponsors an annual convention as well as maintain the museum in Strasburg.  But when you drill down to the practical value for most members, I'm probably not that far off by closely linking TCA membership with York attendance.

David

I wish others had voted like you did, David!  I've long said that the TCA annual dues are actually too low, even at $50.  Having fewer members, but retaining or even adding members who are more in line with the stated mission and goals of the organization would, in my view, be a good thing all around.

The fact remains:  If you joined the TCA solely to go to York, that's perfectly fine.  BUT, you don't deserve a free pass just because that is your only reason for belonging.  You can pay the dues needed to sustain the organization or you can just pass on the whole deal  (including the meet).  It's great to have choices, isn't it?

The TCA, like many other volunteer organizations that have large budgets and many fixed expenses, is only doing what is necessary to continue to operate.

For many years I was very active in a Jewish Fraternal Organization, B'nai B'rith, where I became very involved in making these difficult financial decisions. That group, like the TCA, had an aging demographic and was trying desperately to add younger members to sustain the organization.

I have read many of the comments made on this subject in this posting. The bottom line is that the TCA leadership is only doing what it finds necessary to raise it's revenues to maintain the museum and fund it's expenses. In every issue of the TCA magazine we see a breakdown of new members being added by each division. This is great except that it cannot keep up with the number of members the organization is losing as it's older members die off.

The TCA is providing a service to it's members and they will ultimately decide if the cost of membership is worth the service they are receiving. This is how our markets work. You can believe that all of these consequences were well though out and discussed by the TCA leadership before a decision was made to raise the dues from $35 to $50 a year.

Retaining your membership in TCA ultimately is a personal decision that every member will have to make. While no one likes to see dues increase it is a reality and we have a choice. I'll maintain my membership as I support the TCA and enjoy going to York and also visiting the museum when I visit the Strassburg area.

Steve Tapper

quote:

 This is great except that it cannot keep up with the number of members the organization is losing as it's older members die off.

And then there are all those rising costs (that the government claims isn't inflation). Which are precisely the reasons I believe that the museum has to be made self-sufficient.

... and there  lies one of the ugliest cliche' that keeps rearing its head in this whole issue...

... to those who feel there is "nothing to debate", you are absolutely correct. I for one am completely satisfied to allow the money now to talk: @ the National level, and @ each Division & Chapter's bottom line. 

...BTW for those who are interested in having their opinion heard at the National level, stop wasting your time & efforts here (on OGR's dime).  Here's the tip: just suspend your membership & watch your mailbox for their (Membership Recruitment & Retention Committee) survey & cover letter ...

EVERYTHING IN LIFE IS VERY SIMPLE, PEOPLE COMPLICATE IT. THERE IS A VERY SIMPLE FIX AND WON'T COST US THE MEMBERS ANYTHING. GO BACK TO THE RENAGADE MEETS AT THE HOTELS WHICH WERE AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN THE FAIRGROUNDS. THEN THERE IS NOBODY TO TELL US ANYTHING. USE THE CELL PHONES, MEGAPHONES WHATEVER. THEN LET THE EASTERN DIV AND THE PRESIDENT AND HIS POSSIE HAVE THE FAIRGROUNDS TO THEMSELFS. THEY CAN KICK IN 2000.00 EACH TO KEEP THE FAIRGROUNFS GOING FOR THEM AND WE WILL DO OUR THING AND DON'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THERE CRAP.

OR PAY THE 50.00 AND LET THEM KEEP RUNNING THE SHOW.

Honest, fellas, it is perfectly okay to NOT belong to the TCA if you find any aspects of membership to be disturbing, of if they cause you emotional or financial distress. 

Allan,

OGR pays for my York Meet registration, whether I attend or not, but that's it.

I'm sorry Allan, did I misunderstand you? I thought you told me OGR pays your expenses to go to York. And that's fine if they do, rightfully so if you are working there for them. But then again, that raises the question, would you really go twice a year if you have to pay all the expenses yourself or if you weren't working for OGR?

Many of us find the travel expense, motels, meals too much, and now the "dues entrance fee" increases, while the attendance drops every year and fewer vendors.

In a recent not too long ago TCA quarterly, it had an article mentioning the fact that the Eastern Div. had been offered the use of the Fairgrounds in Timonium, MD for the York meet, and GUARNTEED no sales tax would be collected, even if open to non-members for the train show. Now, why do you suppose the Eastern Div turned that down? It's not really that far away, and it's quite large a facility. Been there myself for one of their train shows and it was quite nice. Just think, TCA could open it up to the public, more sales would be made, more vendors would come, thus more buyers would come, it would be a win, win situation for all. Just move the meet a half hour or so to the south and everyone benefits. But no, the Eastern Div. turned the offer down.

As far as the Library goes, what is so sacred about the Library? Do you go there to look up and old Model Railroader magazine article? A book on trains that you may even find in your local Library? How many of you guys reading this have ever used the Library? Let's see a show of hands.

Of course they pay my travel and lodging expenses when I go to York on behalf of the magazine.  Nothing out of the ordinary about that.

I said I pay my own TCA membership dues each year, and have pretty much paid them on my own since I joined (although I believe Greenberg paid them back when I worked with them).

Would I continue to attend the York Meet if I wasn't working for OGR and had to pay all expenses?  The answer to that is a definite "yes", although I likely would cut it back to once a year because (1) I enjoy the fall meet best and (2) the event for me, these days and aside from work-related duties, is primarily a social event where I get to see friends from all over the country, and beyond, who I otherwise wouldn't see during the course of the year.

I have all the train "stuff" I need/want for this lifetime and beyond, so the buying aspect of York is not what it once was for me.  That's probably true for a good number of folks in my age group who have been in the hobby for many years.  I may attend as a seller at some future date after I retire, but that isn't in the cards for me at the present time.

If/when the time should come when I couldn't afford either the TCA dues or the expenses for at least a once a year trip over to York, I'll know one of two things happened:  I did a truly lousy job of financial planning, or second, my health has deteriorated to the point where it's getting close to time to join my ancestors.  

But even if I couldn't attend the York Meet, I still fully intend to retain my membership in the TCA (already am a Life Member of the NMRA).

As for your other inquiries:

The York Fairgrounds is an infinitely better venue than Timonium.  I have been to both and have worked events at both.  Just my personal opinion for more reasons than I care to go into here.  I really don't care to see the meet become an open-to-the-public event.  It's fine just as it is:  A perk for TCA members.  The public has a good number of shows they can attend every year in the D.C.-Baltimore area, and beyond.

I view the TCA HQ/Museum/Library as the greatest asset the hobby has in terms of perpetuating the history of toy trains.  I am very happy it exists and very proud to be a supportive member.  I'm hoping to donate my Marklin Maxi collection the the museum if they are interested in having it, and intend to look into that at an early date (I can use the space here at home).

And as I've often stated:  I don't care if an individual does not want to join the TCA, for whatever reason.  No organization I know of can be all things to all people.

Why don't you attend the Toy Train Meet held in Ohio?

Allen,
Wow, this thread is still going on!

Hope you are serious about the pictures.  One of our members has taken some professional pictures of or modular layout at the Memphis Pink Palace exhibit. We would like to get them to you. If you will be at York I could drop a disk with the pictures on it off to you. My personnal email is in my profile if emailing them to you would be better. Thanks for the offer and consideration.

Richard Gonzales and the Casey Jones High Railers

I won't be at York this time around, Richard.  Two words:  Kidney Stone.

I hadn't planned to attend in any event because of my pooch who is in her very-senior years and recovering from major surgery, but this new development just yesterday sealed the deal.

You can always leave the disc with Don, at our booth, and he will get it to me.  Make sure you give it to Don, though, and not anyone else because we have fstaff attending from far-reaching places.

I can't even think of a way to dignify that tirade with a response!  

Not a member of the TCA, never have been, so I have no dog in this race.  

However, the entire economy of the US (and now the world) is designed around 2-3% inflation being optimal.  That's the way it is designed to work.  That is the way it will continue.   If you are on a fixed income that did not take this into account either you weren't paying attention or you drank the wrong Kool Aid.

It is why cost-of-living increases are built into good annuities, pensions and Social Security.

The above post is one of the most idiotic posts ever written on this board, you should be ashamed. 

It's funny that with the rant that you posted, you are still are going to the York fair grounds next week, the very thing you ranted about in the above post. 

Also the bandit meets will never come back to the way they were in the 80's and 90's, get over it, things change and in my opinion it has been for the better. 

Allen,

Sorry to hear about the "Stones". I also understand the pet situation. Our Betsey Dog, being a land shark, decided to eat a corn cobb a couple of months ago. Surgrey and a lot of $$ got her through it.

I will leave the disk with Don at the OGR Booth.

I was hoping to get to meet you, maybe next time.

Richard

I am very sentimental. I will never drop out.  It cost money to keep things going these days. 

Can someone PLEASE put this thread out of it's misery.

IT IS THE THREAD THAT WILL NOT DIE !!!

Jerry

People will pay hundreds, or thousands on trains, televisions and other electronics, booze, cigarettes and maybe some other unmentionables.  But complain with vigor about a $15 a year increase?  Seems penny wise and dollar foolish.

People will spend gobs of money on things they determine will entertain, help or sooth them. To me, $50 a year plus all the trains is much cheaper than therapy.  So, if someone is not entertained, helped or soothed by being members of the TCA, they will not participate.  If they enjoy it as part of the hobby they will continue to participate.  If they even enjoy the model train hobby at all.

As much as I love buying trains, it's the social aspect of the York Meet and the TCA that I enjoy the most.  I have so much fun meeting up with friends and meeting new ones because of this forum and the TCA.

Maybe it's not all financial issues.  Maybe some people have social issues and can't for the life of them belong to a group and let small stuff like phones and cameras bother them to their core.

Oh, and the "bandit meets"?  They could never and will never top what you can see and do at any train meet or show.  As is being proved by their slow demise.  Want to see the future of "bandit meets"?  FOLLOW....THE BUZZARDS!!!!!

That's pretty much the way I see it, too, Brian!  I really don't worry about the naysayers. My hobby has been good to me and for me, and the TCA is the umbrella organization that supports the hobby that has been good to me.  I'll support the organization for as long as I am able.