Tell-Tales info needed

From the August 1949 and May 2002 Model Railroader magazines c. Kalmbach Publishing:

Rusty

Kelly Anderson posted:

LIONEL6457 posted:

One spec sheet from the Western Pacific said they were lengths of 1/2" dia cotton rope. I always thought they were metal wires or pipe.

Pipe?  Ouch!  The idea was to warn the brakeman, not knock him out.

HA! I thought the same thing!

Never EVER metal pipes or wire!!!

https://photos.google.com/albu...7r3?key=CMuE0reOwrc8

 Can't seem to get the conversion to work. Any way its a stick of rail upright with what appears to be a #9 wire hanging down to drag along the over size cars. The Maine eastern had alot of these at all the bridges and overpasses. 

I believe I've also seen them with chain hanging down. 

CSX FAN posted:

Any way its a stick of rail upright with what appears to be a #9 wire hanging down to drag along the over size cars. The Maine eastern had alot of these at all the bridges and overpasses. 

I believe I've also seen them with chain hanging down. 

 

Why would anything need to hit a freight car? It's not like the crew would even be aware that a car was struck.

Telltales are to warn train crew - human beings - that the train is about to go under something with low-clearance, and that same crew better hit the deck.

Perhaps with the event of really  high railcars such as auto carriers,telltales   would give a train crew some idea whether the car would pass underneath the bridge  or structure.   I'm thinking  more in a yard rather than out on the main.

Gregg posted:

Perhaps with the event of really  high railcars such as auto carriers,telltales   would give a train crew some idea whether the car would pass underneath the bridge  or structure.   I'm thinking  more in a yard rather than out on the main.

Don't think so, as that would have been what the "high & wide" gauge was for. Back in the days of REAL Brakemen, when they actually walked along the tops of the cars, the "telltales" hung over the tracks, gave the top-walking Brakeman notice of an up-comming bridge/tunnel/structure over the track, that would NOT clear him when fully standing upright. 

Once it was "outlawed" for persons being top of a moving train, and eventually all top mounted roof-walks were removed, the need for the "telltales" was eliminated.

Hot Water posted:

Gregg posted:

Perhaps with the event of really  high railcars such as auto carriers,telltales   would give a train crew some idea whether the car would pass underneath the bridge  or structure.   I'm thinking  more in a yard rather than out on the main.

Don't think so, as that would have been what the "high & wide" gauge was for. Back in the days of REAL Brakemen, when they actually walked along the tops of the cars, the "telltales" hung over the tracks, gave the top-walking Brakeman notice of an up-comming bridge/tunnel/structure over the track, that would NOT clear him when fully standing upright. 

Once it was "outlawed" for persons being top of a moving train, and eventually all top mounted roof-walks were removed, the need for the "telltales" was eliminated.

 

Can't argue with that and I completely agree...On the other hand I believe there was a telltale at Bathurst  street yard .(Toronto) I remember yarding a train of tri-levels there and the Yardmaster was having a fit,,, He knew the cars would not   fit under the Bathurst street bridge.   We normally never yarded at this location.

where the old Port Reading branch passed under the PRR mainline in Metuchen, NJ the telltales were located  less than 100 ft. from the overpass. Seemed hardly enough distance to drop to the deck while at speed.

when I first stumbled across them as a 10 yr. old rooting through the woods, my reaction was it must be a 'circus' line. how else would those giraffes know pull in their heads? such is a child's imagination.

PRR Man posted:

where the old Port Reading branch passed under the PRR mainline in Metuchen, NJ the telltales were located  less than 100 ft. from the overpass. Seemed hardly enough distance to drop to the deck while at speed.

Well, they probably wouldn't have been going all THAT fast.

when I first stumbled across them as a 10 yr. old rooting through the woods, my reaction was it must be a 'circus' line. how else would those giraffes know pull in their heads? such is a child's imagination.

Kelly Anderson posted:

LIONEL6457 posted:

One spec sheet from the Western Pacific said they were lengths of 1/2" dia cotton rope. I always thought they were metal wires or pipe.

Pipe?  Ouch!  The idea was to warn the brakeman, not knock him out.

I have also heard of rawhide being used, but not liked because it could leave welts.

They would have been long enough to hang several inches below the overhead obstruction that they were warning about.

When I read this I thought of the Monty Python architect sketch in which the architect describes plans for an automated abattoir instead of the apartment block, which he's been commissioned to design.

To paraphrase:

"Do I take it that you propose to knock our brakemen unconscious?

"Does that not fit in with your plans?"

"Not really. We asked for a simple warning device."

"Oh. I hadn't fully divined your attitude towards your employees. You see I mainly design slaughter houses."

  Well here is one I never thought through; my perception warped by toy trains and interstate low bridge signs 

  I had imagined slats of wood, strips of metal , light chain, etc. to warn the crew via sounds on the rooftops. I never thought about being on the roof. Even the rope would be a "special" wake up at speed. 

I figured the catwalk area was omitted; but I know better from pictures too.

I always thought the highways should have them for semi clearance. We've got a few low ones 

Don't know why it took me so long to realize the thread title, i.e. I always thought that they were "Tell-Tails" and obviously NOT "TELLTALLS".

I was gonna say, but I figured out what he meant.

Can you imagine the ropes after snowstorm and freezing weather that's frozen stiff getting slapped in the face with one of those! Brakemen back in those days were tough railroaders.

I missed that spelling and was looking at a hypen, lol.

Chuck Sartor posted:

Can you imagine the ropes after snowstorm and freezing weather that's frozen stiff getting slapped in the face with one of those! Brakemen back in those days were tough railroaders.

Well we know how the crew got blue now.

Frozen or not, a strand or a wall of rope at speed ain't gonna be fun. Knock you flat and there you stayed?

  On skin, it's gonna drag burn and chaff even it was soft cotton like a deck mop. Then it is heavy if gets wet.    Hemp rope would shed water but really rip you up fast. 

"I always thought the highways should have them for semi clearance. We've got a few low ones"

NYC has them (and they are chains) on the VZ bridge exit to the parkway. Trucks don't belong there so it's just another warning that they are in trouble.

Highways do have them. As do the tunnel highway entrances to New York City.

Well, good to know NY has them, but some more need them too!    

Surely, no one would believe the telltails are there to warn the engineer that his locomotive won't clear underneath the overpasses in Chicago.

Rusty

Adriatic posted:

Frozen or not, a strand or a wall of rope at speed ain't gonna be fun. Knock you flat and there you stayed?

  On skin, it's gonna drag burn and chaff even it was soft cotton like a deck mop. Then it is heavy if gets wet.    Hemp rope would shed water but really rip you up fast. 

Okay, let's try to remember that the brakemen on the car roofs weren't on top of bullet trains going 120 MPH.

Love this picture... I suppose yard crews would be up on top  relaying hand signals switching in the area. (no radios back then).. Looks like a freight shed as well, Probably no clearance for a brakeman on top of the car and shed  roof.  double slip switch shown as well.....  thanks for posting

Here's a different version   Could  have be used for side or overhead clearance.   The side version might  have been   used  in a location where a  street  light  standard at a station team track didn't allow enough clearance for a brakeman riding the side of a car.

or spotting a car(riding on the car) in  a freight car shed  where he wouldn't  fit  between the loading ramp and rail car. Yep get high on the box card ladder.

smd4 posted:

Adriatic posted:

Frozen or not, a strand or a wall of rope at speed ain't gonna be fun. Knock you flat and there you stayed?

  On skin, it's gonna drag burn and chaff even it was soft cotton like a deck mop. Then it is heavy if gets wet.    Hemp rope would shed water but really rip you up fast. 

Okay, let's try to remember that the brakemen on the car roofs weren't on top of bullet trains going 120 MPH.

  Never got rope burn in just a few feet? I have; climbing, boating and work. Even at 25 mph you're gonna feel 2ft of real rope. 45 mph ?

Rusty Traque posted:

Surely, no one would believe the telltails are there to warn the engineer that his locomotive won't clear underneath the overpasses in Chicago.

Rusty

Lol, I hadn't applied any real thought. More like an impression got made in passing; but no, the loads were (incorrectly) assumed to be the variable. Crew safety hadn't crossed my mind, and my only brakeman car never worked or I may have figured it out a long time ago

Adriatic posted:

  Never got rope burn in just a few feet? I have; climbing, boating and work. Even at 25 mph you're gonna feel 2ft of real rope. 45 mph ?

I sure as hell would hope you're "gonna feel" the rope. That is, after all, the point.

But you make it sound like he's going to get horsewhipped.

   I saw an up close pic of the "rope" in another thread. The rope is also more like a heavy twine.

 Not exactly a whipping, but painless would have been nice. It was always less pain than than a portal brought I suppose. I can't come up with a better solution.

  I stopped water skiing if it was a rough tow rope. They cut, scraped, burned and whipped. Our boats never did much over 40mph, but the rope was always much heavier then what I saw hanging in the pics too. 

  I was just having a little trouble putting it into proper perspective without the exact same experience. More info and some "talk" has helped. (thanks )