Received a RK 'Camelback' awhile back from a friend who in turn obtained it in a trade. He may have installed a new battery but we are not certain. I have no idea how long it has been boxed up but I want to sell it and need to test it for normal operation.
Can I use a regular 9v battery for testing? What other precautions should I be aware of? It's been a long time since I've operated a PS1 locomotive!
Thanks for your input
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Can I use a regular 9v battery for testing? What other precautions should I be aware of? It's been a long time since I've operated a PS1 locomotive!
Sure you can,,, and I would use an old post war Lionel pure wave transformer for testing. KW ZW 1033 etc.
The Z4000 also operates proto 1 engines perfectly. I think they were made for each other? !
"The Z4000 also operates proto 1 engines perfectly."
Maybe. Some of the later "Z-XXXX" transformers will not operate some PS1 - probably the earliest releases - and I know this to be a fact from personal experience.
I have a very early PS1 Southern Ps-4 and a PS1 ATSF 2900-class 4-8-4 (both waiting for a Someday ERR conversion) which will not run on a Z-500 or Z-1000. They both will run on a PW 1033.
The Z-4000 may - or may not - be in the same boat. It varies. Just FYI.
No do not use a regular 9 volt battery!!!!!!!!! Must be a rechargeable battery!!!!!!!!!! Get a bcr for best results. I recently awakened a ps1 scale Hudson I swapped in a bcr and had no problems. The mth manual says not to use a 9 volt battery as the system is designed to recharge the battery in use and regular batteries aren't made to be recharged. Stick a bcr in it and then you will never have to worry about a battery again ever.
git_r_done15541 posted:No do not use a regular 9 volt battery!!!!!!!!! Must be a rechargeable battery!!!!!!!!!! Get a bcr for best results. I recently awakened a ps1 scale Hudson I swapped in a bcr and had no problems. The mth manual says not to use a 9 volt battery as the system is designed to recharge the battery in use and regular batteries aren't made to be recharged. Stick a bcr in it and then you will never have to worry about a battery again ever.
When you use a reg 9 volt, it is just to see if the board works. You must then remove it and not try to use it for more than a test.
I just opened it up for the first time and it has a green MTH battery. Dare I set it on the track and power it up to charge a bit? Am not familiar at all with the issues that PS1 has with a bad battery.
Thanks Git R Done and Joe for your advice. I just discovered that it has a green MTH battery that may not be too old.
Can I place it on a powered track safely if it's run down and let it charge awhile? I don't intend to keep but want to offer it for sale.
The green battery seems to be stuck in the holder so I don't want to damage anything trying to remove it but don't want to 'scramble' the board trying to test it!
Don't leave it in there, but I have used a plain 9v for brief testing. I wouldn't chance powering up on a dead battery and having to do a reset.
Just my $0.02
Yes - charging will be fine. To my knowledge, the issues with the scrambled chip are not from having a dead battery, but with attempting operation with a dead battery.
One way to check the battery after an hour or two charging is to go to the transformer and shut the track down - without attempting to run it. If the loco goes silent immediately the battery is no good; an alkaline may be used for testing the loco - but do not leave it in there for use beyond testing.
Another thought: I have a few PS1 locos that I used to run on our club layout. Many simply have the battery removed and ran just fine. There was no sound during direction change, but that was irrelevant in that setting. No batter - ran fine. My PS1 MU'd GM&O GP38's come to mind; didn't seem to care.
c.sam posted:Thanks Git R Done and Joe for your advice. I just discovered that it has a green MTH battery that may not be too old.
Can I place it on a powered track safely if it's run down and let it charge awhile? I don't intend to keep but want to offer it for sale.
The green battery seems to be stuck in the holder so I don't want to damage anything trying to remove it but don't want to 'scramble' the board trying to test it!
Actually I would put a multimeter to the battery to check what if any voltage (charge) is still there.
If greater than 9v would charge on track (That cannot loose power) at 12/13 volts. Charge for a few hours then check again.
c.sam posted:I just opened it up for the first time and it has a green MTH battery. Dare I set it on the track and power it up to charge a bit? Am not familiar at all with the issues that PS1 has with a bad battery.
Someone replaced it then. Charge the battery first.
D500 posted:"The Z4000 also operates proto 1 engines perfectly."
Maybe. Some of the later "Z-XXXX" transformers will not operate some PS1 - probably the earliest releases - and I know this to be a fact from personal experience.
I have a very early PS1 Southern Ps-4 and a PS1 ATSF 2900-class 4-8-4 (both waiting for a Someday ERR conversion) which will not run on a Z-500 or Z-1000. They both will run on a PW 1033.
The Z-4000 may - or may not - be in the same boat. It varies. Just FYI.
I only had a few PS1 engines to test. The Z4000 is more accurate I believe and that makes it better for handling these systems.
I also have a Z500, Z1000 and a Z750 (that failed) controller. The Z4000 is better.
Engineer-Joe posted:D500 posted:"The Z4000 also operates proto 1 engines perfectly."
Maybe. Some of the later "Z-XXXX" transformers will not operate some PS1 - probably the earliest releases - and I know this to be a fact from personal experience.
I have a very early PS1 Southern Ps-4 and a PS1 ATSF 2900-class 4-8-4 (both waiting for a Someday ERR conversion) which will not run on a Z-500 or Z-1000. They both will run on a PW 1033.
The Z-4000 may - or may not - be in the same boat. It varies. Just FYI.
I only had a few PS1 engines to test. The Z4000 is more accurate I believe and that makes it better for handling these systems.
I also have a Z500, Z1000 and a Z750 (that failed) controller. The Z4000 is better.
The very earliest Z4000's may not work. They were designed assuming a certain condition.
These will state either 160 or 165 VA in stead of 180 VA like below.
I have one of the first Z4000's (1998) 165VA. I have about a dozen PS1 engines that I have run from day one, with it, without any problems.
Gerry Burns posted:I have one of the first Z4000's (1998) 165VA. I have about a dozen PS1 engines that I have run from day one, with it, without any problems.
Gerry, out of curiosity what kind/make track are you using??
Ron
Ron, I have the old Lionel O-Gauge tubular track. I have 4 O72 loops.
I'm back from testing this one out at the club layout. I set the tender alone on the track for only about 30 minutes as I had to be somewhere else shortly. Powered down and added the locomotive. Powered up and she came to life with a couple of clanks. After several up and downs with the throttle of the Z4000 she started forward. I let her make a couple of laps around and then cycled between forward and let her run in reverse for a few feet. I noticed that the sound stayed on after powering down.
The whistle didn't sound with the whistle/horn button but the bell came on. Tried the 'bell' button and nothing happened. I did hear the whistle very briefly as she was running around and passed through some dirty track inside one of the tunnels.
I forgot to turn on the smoke until the very end and this rascal out smokes anything else I have!
As I was getting ready to leave, Harold came in and wanted to see it run. As I tried to start her up, she wouldn't come out of neutral. I cut track power and waited almost a full minute and tried again several times to no avail.
I'd like to move this locomotive - anyone interested?
Sam, at what voltage were trying to get loco to get out of "Reset" which is where all "proto-sound" engine start up in. They cycle reset-forward-neutral-forward. Once shut down they cycle back to reset. Locos will not cycle out of reset above 10-volts.
Gerry Burns posted:Ron, I have the old Lionel O-Gauge tubular track. I have 4 O72 loops.
Gerry, do you have lighted switches and/or bumpers?
I'm not sure you're going to be able to charge the battery with the engine disconnected from the tender...
At least you know it ran (and probably will run with just a little more loving care).... Charged battery, lube...feature reset 18
Ron, no lighted switches or bumpers. Four separate loops.
The Z4000 powers 2 loops and a MRC Pure Power Dual powers the other 2 loops.
Both run all my PS1 engines without any issues. All of the batteries have been replaced with BCR's.
I agree it has potential ,probably needs a 18 reset, have don't many of them, like the other person was stating earlier voltage is critical when powering up and trying to get out of neutral.
Alan
Gerry Burns posted:Ron, no lighted switches or bumpers. Four separate loops.
The Z4000 powers 2 loops and a MRC Pure Power Dual powers the other 2 loops.
Both run all my PS1 engines without any issues. All of the batteries have been replaced with BCR's.
Gerry, one more question. Your Z4000, after you turn it on do both side voltages go to zero?
Ron, with the Z4000, I have a MTH PS2 scale Blue Goose on one loop and a Lionel scale S2 turbine on the other loop.
With both handles in the "off" position, the MTH Blue Goose is 0.3 volts, 0.0 amps. The Lionel S2, which is the 6-18010, is 0.6 volts and 0.0 amps.
Gerry Burns posted:Ron, with the Z4000, I have a MTH PS2 scale Blue Goose on one loop and a Lionel scale S2 turbine on the other loop.
With both handles in the "off" position, the MTH Blue Goose is 0.3 volts, 0.0 amps. The Lionel S2, which is the 6-18010, is 0.6 volts and 0.0 amps.
Gerry, if I understand correctly you are NOT running any original MTH Proto Sound or PS-1 engines.
Gerry Burns posted:I have one of the first Z4000's (1998) 165VA. I have about a dozen PS1 engines that I have run from day one, with it, without any problems.
Sounds like he does
PRRronbh posted:Gerry Burns posted:Ron, with the Z4000, I have a MTH PS2 scale Blue Goose on one loop and a Lionel scale S2 turbine on the other loop.
With both handles in the "off" position, the MTH Blue Goose is 0.3 volts, 0.0 amps. The Lionel S2, which is the 6-18010, is 0.6 volts and 0.0 amps.
Gerry, if I understand correctly you are NOT running any original MTH Proto Sound or PS-1 engines.
See above post
D500 posted:Yes - charging will be fine. To my knowledge, the issues with the scrambled chip are not from having a dead battery, but with attempting operation with a dead battery
Another thought: I have a few PS1 locos that I used to run on our club layout.Many simply have the battery removed and ran just fine. There was no sound during direction change, but that was irrelevant in that setting. No batter - ran fine. My PS1 MU'd GM&O GP38's come to mind; didn't seem to care.
This sounds like the best solution if it will keep them from getting scrambled but doesn't make sense me...
I'm guessing that I was trying to come out of neutral at 17v-18v. Next time I'm up there I'll try again but at least now I believe I can offer it for sale and that it will work. Still no idea why the whistle didn't trigger.
Did I mention that it has incredible smoke output? :-)
what is the engine item number which model engine is it steam or diesel I might be interested send me a picture n email me!
Thanks
Alan p.s. thanks but changed my mind good luck if your able to repair and sell
Alan
FYI...here are the readings I get with some PS1 engines.
Z4000, handles in "off" position. I put each engine, one at a time, on the same loop.
scale N&J from about 1997..1.7 volts...0 amps.
scale UP Veranda Turbine from about 1998...1.6 volts..0 amps.
scale Pennsy T1 duplex from 1998..1.7 volts..0 amps.
scale Santa Fe Northern from about 1996...2.0 volts..0 amps.
C Sam I don't think the battery got charged with the tender disconnected from the engine... anyway we can use the same test as we do with proto-2. battery test.... how long do the engine sounds carry on after track power is turned off.... Sound be around 5 or 6 seconds.
I believe most proto-1s up to around 1996 will leave neutral without a battery... ex 0-8-0 SD-9 (95?) and the big challenger that put MTH on the map... It had a tiny battery switch on the tender that was hard to get at but would run fine with it in the off position.
Sam,
If I remember correctly you have other MTH P2 Engines, purchase the BCR and use it for the test in the P1, then keep it for one of you other P2 Engines. We are not talking about a large amount of money here and the BCR's work great especially when you decide to store your Engines for any longevity.
PCRR/Dave
Thanks guys - I think I'm gaining a better understanding of the PS1 operation. Am pretty sure I was going immediately to 16v-18v to try to cycle it. Will look for the battery switch that Gregg mentions above. The sound did stay on for 5-6 seconds after the first run around the layout a couple of times. It takes 2-3 minutes to make the complete outside loop at 13v.
Hi Sam It was just the challenger that had the battery switch. After running the trains and layout shut down, if you didn't turn the switch off, the whistle would blow constantly.( usually about the time you made it up out of the basement.) Back down we go to turn it off.
Pine Creek Railroad posted:Sam,
If I remember correctly you have other MTH P2 Engines, purchase the BCR and use it for the test in the P1, then keep it for one of you other P2 Engines. We are not talking about a large amount of money here and the BCR's work great especially when you decide to store your Engines for any longevity.
PCRR/Dave
What??
They aren't different ones?
Eng Joe,
The old P1 and the original P2 engines take the same BCR, it looks like a red 9 Volt Battery.
PCRR/Dave
You do not test a battery by taking a dvm across the + and - terminals.
You have to put a bulb on the battery terminals and hold it there. If the light goes out quickly,
the battery is discharged.
bruce
"and the original P2 engines "
So you mean just the 5 volt, right?
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