Engineer-Joe posted:"and the original P2 engines "
So you mean just the 5 volt, right?
He did state "original."
Yes, and I'm only doing this so that new members who see this post understand that the original post of PS2 should be clarified to say 5 volt only.
Pine Creek Railroad posted:Sam,
If I remember correctly you have other MTH P2 Engines, purchase the BCR and use it for the test in the P1, then keep it for one of you other P2 Engines. We are not talking about a large amount of money here and the BCR's work great especially when you decide to store your Engines for any longevity.
PCRR/Dave
Here's proof of a Z4000 running a PS1. We have no troubles anyways. The battery is a newer green version.
His engine was really smoking great! 
he is holding the cloud
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Engineer-Joe posted:Here's proof of a Z4000 running a PS1. We have no troubles anyways. The battery is a newer green version.
His engine was really smoking great!
he is holding the cloud
WHO said you cannot run "proto-sound engines with a Z4000???????
I have run dozens of my old "proto-sound" engines with all three of my Z4000s. Of course all my Z4000s are 180VA.
But I know for sure that is not always the case with a 165VA. And at the time conferring with MTH Tech people I found out what the design assumption was that could/would cause this.
D500 posted:"The Z4000 also operates proto 1 engines perfectly."
....
The Z-4000 may - or may not - be in the same boat. It varies. Just FYI.
I was referring to this
PRRronbh posted:Engineer-Joe posted:Here's proof of a Z4000 running a PS1. We have no troubles anyways. The battery is a newer green version.
His engine was really smoking great!
he is holding the cloud
WHO said you cannot run "proto-sound engines with a Z4000???????
I have run dozens of my old "proto-sound" engines with all three of my Z4000s. Of course all my Z4000s are 180VA.
But I know for sure that is not always the case with a 165VA. And at the time conferring with MTH Tech people I found out what the design assumption was that could/would cause this.
What was the design assumption that they felt would cause this problem? Is there any solution? I have a Z-4000 165VA and it runs PS-1 engines but I am curious about the problem in case I should experience it in the future.
PaulG posted:PRRronbh posted:What was the design assumption that they felt would cause this problem? Is there any solution? I have a Z-4000 165VA and it runs PS-1 engines but I am curious about the problem in case I should experience it in the future.
HI Paul from a native Buckeye.
Before I go into the story a few quick questions please. Just trying to confirm what MTH Tech told me so many years ago.
When you power-up your Z4000 does the voltage read Zero (00.0)? What track system are you using? Do you have any lighted power-lockons, and/or lighted switches and/or bumpers?
Ron
Hi PRRronbh...
When I power up the Z-4000 with no load, track 1 reads 2.0 V and track 2 reads 1.7 V. I currently use RailTrax but I will be using ScaleTrax on my layout. There are no add-ons (bumpers, switches, etc.).
I am just interested in what MTH felt was a problem.
Thanks for responding.
Paul
PaulG posted:Hi PRRronbh...
When I power up the Z-4000 with no load, track 1 reads 2.0 V and track 2 reads 1.7 V. I currently use RailTrax but I will be using ScaleTrax on my layout. There are no add-ons (bumpers, switches, etc.).
I am just interested in what MTH felt was a problem.
Thanks for responding.
Paul
Paul.
Since you are using MTH RealTrax are you using this RealTrax lockon to connect the Z4000 to the track? And if so how many?
Ron
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I use a single lockon.
PaulG posted:I use a single lockon.
Paul, just want to make sure the lockon is in-fact like the one pictured above.
Ron
Exactly the same.
PaulG posted:Exactly the same.
Alright, this all comports to what the MTH Tech told me back in Mar/Apr, 2004.
I will be back much later today with whole story since very busy for while.
Ron
Paul, will try to make this somewhat pithy but with essential info.
Back in Mar/Apr 2004 just before York was helping a fellow O-Gauger "J" tear done his layout in 2000 sq-ft basement because sold house. He wanted me to bring two of my big Premier PS-2 engines he wanted to see run on the long stretch of track still up. I also brought My Premier Protosound GG1. The PS-2's ran perfectly but the GG1 would not leave "reset" mode. Now J was a regular attendee at York for decades. He knew the MTH staff by name and sight and they him. J pull out his phone numbers for MTH, called and got lead Technical person on line then handed over to me. Told this person that the GG1 would not leave "reset" and Z-4000 was indicating some voltage with handle all the way down/off. He asked if the plate stated 180VA or 165VA and what track system. Reported back 165VA and GarGraves.
He stated the problem was from the beginning the design of the Z-2000 (never made) and then Z-4000's assumed the use of MTH ReakTrax with a lighted lockon. Apparently the lighted lockon created enough load that drew voltage down enough for Protosound engines to work. The fix was to return the 165VA Z-4000 for an upgrade.
Since J as usual was going to York he arranged to droop it off in person. When he got to MTH Columbia MD took 165VA in, asked for the Tech person who came out and took older 165VA asking J to wait. Few minutes later retuned with NEW 180VA Z4000. So back then that was the "fix."
Now not sure that ALL the old 165VA Z-4000's exhibit this quirk. We see here that Gene uses an Old 165VA Z-4000 with Lionel tubular track and no lighted accessories and it works.
So I would take some other track or you RealTrax without a lighted lockon clip the leads to track and try it.
It maybe MTH caught this quirk while still making the 165VA's and fixed it. I do know that J's 165VA Z-4000 was one of the very first made and distributed.
PRRronbh,
This is very interesting. I seem to have exactly the same symptoms. I am in the process of building my new layout which will use ScaleTrax without (obviously) the lighted lockon. However, I don't know what problems other "track powered" accessories might cause. I guess I'll try the powering the RealTrax without the lighted lockon and see what happens. It would be nice to know what the "fix" is for the 165VA Z-4000's. It'll probably be a complete swap of the internal electronics.
Thanks for the info... I'll experiment and post the results. May take awhile with Christmas here. Thanks again.
Paul
PaulG posted:PRRronbh,
This is very interesting. I seem to have exactly the same symptoms. I am in the process of building my new layout which will use ScaleTrax without (obviously) the lighted lockon. However, I don't know what problems other "track powered" accessories might cause. I guess I'll try the powering the RealTrax without the lighted lockon and see what happens. It would be nice to know what the "fix" is for the 165VA Z-4000's. It'll probably be a complete swap of the internal electronics.
Thanks for the info... I'll experiment and post the results. May take awhile with Christmas here. Thanks again.
Paul
As I stated the fix for fellow O-Gauger "J" was that MTH swapped the old 165VA for a New 180VA Z-4000.
