The 2021 Big Book Catalog is Live! Whadaya getting? Links added!

@Rider Sandman posted:

Hey Bryant, can you expand on this?

When Lionel brought out the Lagacy PE Berkshire about 3 years ago.  They released a Passenger set and in the following years, add-on cars.  The Words "POLAR EXPRESS" are written below the windows.  In the new catalog, the cars are similar, but the words "POLAR EXPRESS" are above the windows.  The cars listed in the catalogue will mmatch the propr released with the wording in the correct spot. 

I jumped right in, but realized it when I looked at my existing cars.  Easy to miss.

Bryant, ahh, got it. I have the original set from 2014 (black roof).  The lettering is above the windows on them, so I’d didn’t pick up on it. Sounds like they are consistent with (i.e., match) the black roof cars, but not the newer white roof cars.

Of course, we’ve still gotta wait for the as-built paint colors to determine if they actually match any or the previous sets.....

@Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

Looking closer ate the printing on PE cars, they were wrong.  Canxcelled that, but could not resist the red Pacemaker and boxcar set with caboose.  If the colors come out close to the catalog, it should be a very deep looking set.

So you're not talking about the "Acela Polar" but the add on sleeper cars to the scale steam locomotive, correct?  I noticed that too but I wouldn't have pre-ordered those anyways.

@Madockawando posted:

Right! That’s why we call them “non prototypical paint schemes “.

To me, there is something vaguely condescending about using the term “fantasy “ when. Referring to these trains. It’s almost as if the speaker is looking down on them for not being prototypical and looking down at the people who buy them. I’m sure that’s not the case but it can come across that way.

You are correct.  Rusty has long held the opinion that it if it wasn't "real" it shouldn't be made for others to buy & enjoy.  He doesn't seem to understand that, in many instances, by offering these alternate paint schemes & even fun stuff like Disney, Star Trek or Scooby Doo rolling stock, etc., often allows Lionel to meet its minimum production requirements with its manufacturers. 

@MartyE posted:

So you're not talking about the "Acela Polar" but the add on sleeper cars to the scale steam locomotive, correct?  I noticed that too but I wouldn't have pre-ordered those anyways.

That is correct.  Not the Acelas.  I am relieved.  My fear was that they were going to add to the set with add-ons every year.  I am pretty much done after I receive the Hobo and they change out the RPO shell.  FWIW, the movie did not have all those cars.  I think maybe 5 total.

The movie is a shaky guide, at best.  At times, the train had perhaps 4 cars; at other times, it had over a dozen.  Remember:  "It's a magic train!"

@RadioRon posted:

You are correct.  Rusty has long held the opinion that it if it wasn't "real" it shouldn't be made for others to buy & enjoy.  He doesn't seem to understand that, in many instances, by offering these alternate paint schemes & even fun stuff like Disney, Star Trek or Scooby Doo rolling stock, etc., often allows Lionel to meet its minimum production requirements with its manufacturers.

So true... I’m not interested in Frozen, Disney, or the Polar Express. But if Lionel makes money off these trains and stays afloat than by all means catalog them.

@Madockawando - That Frozen train set is looking pretty fine.

@RadioRon posted:

You are correct.  Rusty has long held the opinion that it if it wasn't "real" it shouldn't be made for others to buy & enjoy.  He doesn't seem to understand that, in many instances, by offering these alternate paint schemes & even fun stuff like Disney, Star Trek or Scooby Doo rolling stock, etc., often allows Lionel to meet its minimum production requirements with its manufacturers.

"So true... I’m not interested in Frozen, Disney, or the Polar Express. But if Lionel makes money off these trains and stays afloat than by all means catalog them."

Sometimes I get the uncomfortable feeling that there is a group of unelected politicians on this Forum who seem to know "what's best" for the rest of us as politicians are wont to do.

I humbly suggest they give it a rest and let us make up our own minds. 

@MartyE posted:

You can complain about pricing but who's actually paying MSRP and if they are, why?   I'm not saying prices didn't go up but we get the same complaint on just about every catalog and everyone quotes the MSRP.   Find your favorite Forum Sponsor and I bet they have some better pre-order prices or even below MSRP pricing.

Spot on, Marty.   Its always about the MSRP.   Granted, the actual prices thru the major Lionel dealers are not all that much less, the fact is that they are less!

@palallin posted:

Worse yet is $65 for a modern era 6464 that says "Merry Christmas" and has NO other features.

Very little to interest me.   I am happy to see the house kits:   I hope to see such offerings boost the creative aspect of this hobby.

Christmas 2021 Boxcar is $46 at this major Lionel dealer, @palallin:    2010ChristmasCar

@RadioRon posted:

Spot on, Marty.   Its always about the MSRP.   Granted, the actual prices thru the major Lionel dealers are not all that much less, the fact is that they are less!

Even so, I like to make my preorders direct from Lionel.  It’s not much more than what you get from the dealer and I find you get it quicker since it comes directly from Lionel. MSRP doesn’t really bother me too much.

@RadioRon posted:

You are correct.  Rusty has long held the opinion that it if it wasn't "real" it shouldn't be made for others to buy & enjoy.

Sorry if my thoughts and opinions upset you.  I've had my share of non-prototypical or fantasy stuff in my lifetime.  Adaptation to something similar is fine, like MTH substituting an E8 for their Train of Tomorrow because they didn't make an E7 or the Lionel Santa Fe Northern's of 2019 in various roads.  But slapping a warbonnet on a 2-10-10-2 or a Chessie System on a decidedly Southern Pacific GS4 doesn't cut the mustard with me.  It's one thing to make a compromise, another thing to go off into left field.

I just think it's getting out of hand now.  I'm wondering how long before we start seeing Generals in Santa Fe warbonnet or Amtrak...

  He doesn't seem to understand that, in many instances, by offering these alternate paint schemes & even fun stuff like Disney, Star Trek or Scooby Doo rolling stock, etc., often allows Lionel to meet its minimum production requirements with its manufacturers.

Don't try to psychoanalyze me,  I understand that.  I've mentioned that same logic in several of my posts.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Well if Lionel made a General in the Sante Fe Warbonnet or in the Amtrak paint scheme and people bought it and were happy about it, wouldn't that be OK? Would it really make a difference as long as Lionel makes trains that you like and enjoy?

I think you guys made your point already...

I did see something funny in the Flyer section: it says "AF S Gauge...Perfect for All Ages"...then a few pages later, the list price of the 4-6-2: $699.00. 

Mark in Oregon

I'm still waiting for Dave to give more information on the 2-10-10-2's that I posted last night out of curiosity.

@Strummer posted:

I think you guys made your point already...

I did see something funny in the Flyer section: it says "AF S Gauge...Perfect for All Ages"...then a few pages later, the list price of the 4-6-2: $699.00. 

Mark in Oregon

People give their little kids phones that cost more than that.  It makes more sense to give them the pacific.

@Madockawando posted:

You can order directly from Lionel's store on their website.  Of course, you will pay full retail.  The advantage is that you get your items earlier than anyone else directly from Lionel.  So that's the trade off.  I have placed my orders directly with Lionel and have been very satisfied with the service.

Gee, I dunno.   If you ordering any big ticket stuff, you are forking over unnecessary money to, possibly, receive a product a week or two sooner than you would from say, Trainworld or Charles Ro?

@BillYo414 posted:

I caught that portion of the video and it sounds like it was the bottom left locomotive that is weathered. We'll see what you find out.

I'm still on the fence about ordering one. I mean I could easily pick up a side hustle this summer to get the money together but something keeps telling me to hold off. Maybe I'll wait to see what's in the second catalog.

Got a definitive answer tonight in an email from Mr.Muffin's Trains. It's the one on top of page 17, 2131540 #2775, see attached photo.

This actually brings a bit of a smile to my face because that one I didn't like so much. Still not sure what I am going to order, but figured I'd get this information out there for everyone else that may not be on Steve's emailing list.

I appreciate it @Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4. I'm also still in a toss up on those. They sure are sharp but I've spent quite a bit already. I'm leaning towards skipping.

In an earlier post, I stated there were only two Penny prototypical items in the catalog (both gondolas), and neither fit my late 40s era.  I thought why not find a car for interchange service, especially a Southern Railway car since the SR will have an interchange track on my layout.  Turns out there were no items for the late 40s, other than a couple of the very expensive Vision Boxcars with did not interest me.  And as far as SR, the only Southern item I saw was the LC 2.0+ RS-3.  Not sure if it is scale, but it did not fit my era anyway (delivered in 50s).

Even if I wanted to buy something in this catalog, there was nothing in it that fit my era other than those couple of expensive Vision Boxcars.  My wife supports my train hobby, and even got me an Atlas X-29 boxcar I was looking for for Christmas.  But she was happy with this catalog (no purchases).  She thinks I have more items now than we can run and she is right.

However, if I was into fantasy schemes, there were several very nice items that would have been hard to pass up.

@palallin posted:

People give their little kids phones that cost more than that.  It makes more sense to give them the pacific.

Let's see... phone or Pacific? I personally would rather have the locomotive, but then I'm not a "little kid" anymore. And the phone I'm using to send this cost me only $100.00. 

Mark in Oregon

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Got a definitive answer tonight in an email from Mr.Muffin's Trains. It's the one on top of page 17, 2131540 #2775, see attached photo.

This actually brings a bit of a smile to my face because that one I didn't like so much. Still not sure what I am going to order, but figured I'd get this information out there for everyone else that may not be on Steve's emailing list.

Interesting. In the catalog and on the website, #2790 is a lighter/duller black than the rest of the engines, including #2775. I interpreted that as being the weathered one. I will have to confirm myself.

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

Interesting. In the catalog and on the website, #2790 is a lighter/duller black than the rest of the engines, including #2775. I interpreted that as being the weathered one. I will have to confirm myself.

Yeah, I know. The first thing Ryan & Dave said on the catalog FB event was #2790, I emailed Mr. Muffin's to get an answer. Tonight when they released details on one of their custom runs for the Pacific's, that was at the bottom. I figured I'd pass it along. The only other way to get confirmation would be email Ryan directly or confirm at your local train store. It stinks that they didn't include "weathered" tags on which were, but I guess they were pressed on editing the catalog and just let it rip as was.

So far I have put in my order for the Atlantic Coast Line SD70ACE #1967. Still trying to decide on other items. When is the deadline for pre-order?

@NS1975 posted:

So far I have put in my order for the Atlantic Coast Line SD70ACE #1967. Still trying to decide on other items. When is the deadline for pre-order?

End of February.

I enjoy primarily prototypical models, but there certainly is nothing wrong with some "what if's" now and then.  Mehano/IHC made an HO GG1 in a modified Milwaukee Road paint scheme, which is conceivable if a GG1 could have been made to run on the MR electrified lines.  The IHC box label generally calls it a GG1; but one variant label actually calls it a Little Joe!

Apparently, the New Haven EP-3 was loaned to the Pennsylvania for study, and the GG1 has been described as largely an EP-3 clone with a streamlined, Loewy carbody.  What with New Haven and the Pennsylvania teaming up to form the New York Connecting Railroad responsible for building ****'s Gate bridge, and also teaming up to run the through trains from Boston to points south of Manhattan such as Philly & Washington, DC, and as the New Haven had substantial catenary lines.  MTH did an East Wind set, with a GG1 on point -- a joint project between the Pennsylvania, New Haven, and a few other cooperating railroads, with service from Washington to Portland, Maine.  So it also seems entirely plausible that the New Haven might have acquired some GG1s at some point.  (Okay, I know they did not really acquire any in fact -- just not as farfetched as, say, the New York Central acquiring a huge engine from another railroad that was not only a bitter competitor, but would not have fit through their older, lower-clearance tunnels.)

There have also been GG1s made by a few different HO manufacturers in the McGinness scheme.

In a future O gauge catalog, it would be fun to see a GG1 in the Cranberry paint scheme, or the green top/orange bottom with pinstripes, for example.

So, to each his own -- whatever makes you happy!

David

Both the lead and the end locomotives are powered in the new ACELA high-speed passenger train set.

Only the lead unit was powered in the original set.

That is why the price is the same and it might be a better deal this time.

Andrew

@NS1975 posted:

So far I have put in my order for the Atlantic Coast Line SD70ACE #1967. Still trying to decide on other items. When is the deadline for pre-order?

Decided to add the B&O Vision Line PS-1 boxcar.

Well, after another run through the catalog and some questions to myself, decided to pass. I'm mostly PW oriented and also enjoy the Lion Chief Plus 2.0 offerings so none of the higher end stuff for me anyway.

Decided that down the road if there's something I end up really wanting and it's available,  I'll just grab it after release.

Will put my 2021 dollars towards adding some PW items on my list.

Ended up deciding to preorder a NYC SW8, L2a Mohawk, and the Pacemaker boxcar set. I personally love the multi-car sets, where you can have an entire consist suitable for a small layout, all in one box.

Placed my preorder for a NYO&W Camelback and I had to get the Chevy Service Station due to the dealer's name!

I ordered the New Haven Mohawk and the Pacemaker boxcar set (I already have several NYC steamers to pull the Pacemakers along with another set from the 90’s).

Well, I work for Ford so I went ahead and ordered the Ford water tower and Ford service station.

First time buying a new engine. Later tonight I’ll put in my order for the B&O SD70ace. Would like to see a matching one in chessie colors in a future catalog.

Since I’m on a rather reserved budget, I finally decided on preordering just the Strasburg SW8. With the popularity of the Strasburg Railroad these days, I figure that this version will likely sell out very quickly once these hit dealer shelves.

I went from not going to, to Red Pacemaker, Vision boxcar set, SF Valley Flyer 2-10-10-2 7 & 2 C&NW boxcars.  I am preparing for these by selling a couple of sets plus 1 of my Acela sets.  I decided to keep 1 and not go with the new one.  O like the doors on the Acela opening with remote command.  The good news, it will take the better part of the year before I have to cough up the dough.

Now, we can start with, when is Vol. 2 coming out?  Just kidding.  Now my mind goes to October York.  From my lips to g_ds ears.

Well the few things I mentioned that I was looking at on page one of this thread I decided to pass on.  However I did settle on getting the Conrail and CSX Mill Gondolas.

Vision Line ATSF 2-10-10-2 (had to do it -- I missed the last one).   Managed to have self control on everything else.  I'm sure I will kick myself when the stuff comes in and I will end up buying the Valley Flyer and Vision boxcars for more $$.