The 2021 Big Book Catalog is Live! Whadaya getting? Links added!

@palallin posted:

Hey, breezinup, you quoted me but didn't make a comment.  Did I miss something?

No, I messed up. Sorry. I got sidetracked and had to leave and accidentally sent your message before making the comment. I was just going to agree with your statement that "I might have looked harder at the Christmas Lights Set if it weren't infested with LEDs.  Give me real lights."

I agree. Unless you're a young child, perhaps, there's such a thing as overdoing it. The MTH LED lined engines and cars that have been produced seem to turn people's cranks, and I have several of the cars, but the overly bright LEDs overpower everything else, and after a while get to be too much. Just my opinion, but I would prefer lights that were toned down a bit. Only my preference.

@Rusty Traque posted:

50 years after the demise of the original Lionel...

Rusty

Well, of course. It was just a little humor, for heaven's sake.

Personally, I don't consider that putting lettering of the name of the manufacturer on the tender of an all-black steam engine qualifies as a "fantasy paint scheme." I don't think it was ever considered so or stated to be so - not by Lionel, or anyone else.

If someone wants to argue about that, that's fine, but I think it's a specious argument, at best. Just IMHO, of course.

I know what I "want":

• Veranda Turbine Rio Grande  #4010
• Ski Train Power Passenger Car "Rio Grande"
• Ski Train StationSounds Diner "Rio Grande"
• Ski Train Passenger Car Set "Rio Grande" (2-Car)
• Ski Train Passenger Car Set "Rio Grande" (4-Car)
• CSX Tamper

I guess a man can dream.

A

You can order directly from Lionel's store on their website. Of course, you will pay full retail. The advantage is that you get your items earlier than anyone else directly from Lionel. So that's the trade off.  I have placed my orders directly with Lionel and have been very satisfied with the service.

I posted earlier that I'm in for an SP Bloody Nose Veranda.  "Gotta" love those closely modeled prototypes. 

Also coming home:  L2133630 Southern Pacific SW 8, #1102.

More, certainly, as time and the catalog grow more familiar.

Great catalog.  Only thing missing?  More accessories!  And, we still need the "Spy v. Spy" series - if licensing issues can be finally worked out.

Most likely I will purchase the Strasburg SW8.I would love to have the Amtrak Acela but it is out of my price range.

@breezinup posted:

No, I messed up. Sorry. I got sidetracked and had to leave and accidentally sent your message before making the comment.

No problem!  I was just confused (and that ain't hard!).

@GOLDRAIL posted:

It reads on the side description  in the first paragraph for the 2-10-10-2's that there will also be Safety Valve Steam as a new feature, but below in listed features it doesn't say this. Can anyone verify this? I am torn between the 2-10-10-2 all black or the Mohawk either New Haven or NYC Lines. Being I have a Mohawk from the last run(still one of my favorites to run despite lack of modern features), I am leaning 2-10-10-2, but it'd help to have that safety valve steam clarified.

don’t think this was mentioned yet but if you watched the Ryan and Dave show Dave did mention that the description did mention the safety valve steam and they originally wanted to add that feature but was unable to get it to fit. So the short answer is no it won’t have safety valve steam  

OK question.  I'm curious about the Area 51 Set.  The catalog lists the engine + 3 car set w a different product number (2123160) from the one issued late last year (2023050) and also shows "Upgraded Bluetooth 5.0" and "now includes the new voice streaming & recording feature".  In the Ryan & Dave show when they came to this item they stated that the new items were the accessories and the engine + 3 car set was released late last year.  

Was the engine upgraded?  The remote?  Why the different product number and the "new features" but no mention of it on the Facebook "production"?

Anyone have any ideas/insight?

@LeighL posted:

OK question.  I'm curious about the Area 51 Set.  The catalog lists the engine + 3 car set w a different product number (2123160) from the one issued late last year (2023050) and also shows "Upgraded Bluetooth 5.0" and "now includes the new voice streaming & recording feature".  In the Ryan & Dave show when they came to this item they stated that the new items were the accessories and the engine + 3 car set was released late last year.  

Was the engine upgraded?  The remote?  Why the different product number and the "new features" but no mention of it on the Facebook "production"?

Anyone have any ideas/insight?

Essentially, both the new set and the old set are the same but are different on the inside. Both sets have the same cars and offer the same features plus more. The "upgraded Bluetooth 5.0" is an updated Bluetooth system that includes the voice streaming feature. The reason why it is through Bluetooth is that one, it is directed towards the younger generation, and two, it is much easier to use a smart device than reinvent the wheel. For the remote, it should be the same since all of the new tech features will be through the Bluetooth app.

Well, after thirty-five years of oohing and ahhing over new Lionel catalogs, I have reached the point where there isn’t much coming out that has allure for me. It’s kinda sad, but I have so very much in my collection already. Anyway, the last catalog and this one just have me coming up nearly empty.

Here’s my take on why I have reached this point: I am a conventional runner with FastTrack 036 curves. I like the LionChief+ Line very much, but it seems to be diminished of late. One new steamer this round? One road name? Reruns of RS-3 diesels with upgraded features but previously-issued road names? That’s it.

Starter sets galore but so, so much emphasis on cross-branding with various sci-fi and fantasy offerings. These have no appeal to me. Apparently, they tap into a big pool of folks, though, who identify with the various offerings - Disney, Harry Potter, Star Trek, Budweiser, etc. It leaves me scratching my head, but great for Lionel and good for them. Honestly.

Since I run conventional 036, most of the top-end stuff is off limits. Plus those  prices...

I will order a couple of the Standard O boxcars  These are a real value, IMO . I have ordered several others in this series recently and like them a lot.

I am NOT complaining, so don’t get me wrong . It’s just that Lionel’s focus has drifted away from my interests to a significant degree in recent years.  

I have plenty of trains to play with, believe me! But obviously,

the times they are a-changing.

I’d be interested to hear if any of you are in the same boat I am. To really mix metaphors . Make it the same gondola...

I will eventually get the Exterior-Braced 50' Double-door box cars.

Andrew

@Dave Warburton posted:

Well, after thirty-five years of oohing and ahhing over new Lionel catalogs, I have reached the point where there isn’t much coming out that has allure for me. It’s kinda sad, but I have so very much in my collection already. Anyway, the last catalog and this one just have me coming up nearly empty.

Here’s my take on why I have reached this point: I am a conventional runner with FastTrack 036 curves. I like the LionChief+ Line very much, but it seems to be diminished of late. One new steamer this round? One road name? Reruns of RS-3 diesels with upgraded features but previously-issued road names? That’s it.

Starter sets galore but so, so much emphasis on cross-branding with various sci-fi and fantasy offerings. These have no appeal to me. Apparently, they tap into a big pool of folks, though, who identify with the various offerings - Disney, Harry Potter, Star Trek, Budweiser, etc. It leaves me scratching my head, but great for Lionel and good for them. Honestly.

Since I run conventional 036, most of the top-end stuff is off limits. Plus those  prices...

I will order a couple of the Standard O boxcars  These are a real value, IMO . I have ordered several others in this series recently and like them a lot.

I am NOT complaining, so don’t get me wrong . It’s just that Lionel’s focus has drifted away from my interests to a significant degree in recent years.  

I have plenty of trains to play with, believe me! But obviously,

the times they are a-changing.

I’d be interested to hear if any of you are in the same boat I am. To really mix metaphors . Make it the same gondola...

Dave,

I hear you. I have a postwar style 4x8 layout with an O-36 outer loop and a O-31 figure 8. It’s a real nice layout, but isn’t a monster.

I gave up on TMCC and Legacy because it seemed to be more than I needed for a layout this size. However, I love the LionChief series and use the LionChief remote. Recently, I purchased the LionChief 726 Berkshire and the LC Boston and Albany Hudson. Rugged locomotives that run well on a layout my size and look great pulling Postwar cars.

I have the new TM-4 FM demonstrator and awaiting the Maine Central GP from the last catalog. Both will run on O-36 and both will match up nice with postwar style cars. From this catalog I have the Canadian Pacific SD70 ace on order and perhaps add the LV RS-3. Again, both can operate on O-36 curves.

As for cars, I’m just getting one, I’m too heavily invested in Postwar cars to move to scale, I want cars that match my postwar cars in style and size. I feel that the scale cars would just overwhelm my layout.

I did consider the new baby K-4s but I am going to wait and hope the next catalog will bring one in the Lionel Lines road name. I like the tradition of Lionel Lines and as a generic road name I can pull anything behind it. How about some Legacy locomotives in the Lionel Lines name that can run on O-36 track? If we can do Star Trek, why not a stunning Lionel Lines SD70ace?

Dave, I’m with you,  I am happy with Lionel’s success and that people can find what they like.  However with every new catalog, I feel they are leaving a bunch of us behind.

I'm going for an Amtrak Acela and a 2-10-10-2.  That's enough.  Still up in the air about the expansion set.

I think its a pretty good variety this year.  Some new stuff too.  Been waiting for a Veranda Turbine and its diecast too, so that is a definite.  I thought it would be a lot more too.  I can see a pattern that pretty much every Vision Line loco is now going to be at minimum 2000.00!   I remember when I bought my Vision Line Hudson many years ago for 1300.00 and I thought that was a lot, haha.  Its getting to be a little expensive for Vision Line stuff.

Nice to see the Acela again without all the fancy stuff that caused issues, although the price is pretty high on that too once you add it all up with extra cars.

I wish they would come out with some new operating accessories though.  Something new and cool.  Or some new interesting rolling stock.

Pretty good catalog though.

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Essentially, both the new set and the old set are the same but are different on the inside. Both sets have the same cars and offer the same features plus more. The "upgraded Bluetooth 5.0" is an updated Bluetooth system that includes the voice streaming feature. The reason why it is through Bluetooth is that one, it is directed towards the younger generation, and two, it is much easier to use a smart device than reinvent the wheel. For the remote, it should be the same since all of the new tech features will be through the Bluetooth app.

As someone who bought the Area 51 Railroad Set from the last catalog, that's about the way I see it. The loco and cars are exactly the same and the 2020 set did have Bluetooth control. It's just that this new offering has been upgraded to included voice control.

There are also two new accessories in the green and black color scheme: a water tower and oil field platform/tank. I may add those to my Area 51 layout.

Lastly, no sight of expansion packs for the green lighted Fastrack. Was hoping Lionel  would offer those like they do for the multi-colored "Christmas" track pieces.

Is it safe to assume that the Pennsylvania John Bull set engine actually operates?  It states that it is a "display set".

I see quite a few here are interested in the Camden and Amboy set, and the Uncle Sam set, but nobody mentioned the Pennsylvania set.

Just reread the description, and it does state that each set includes an operational locomotive.

I might pull the trigger on both the C&A and Pennsylvania.  $2000 retail is a big nut though!

I'm with several of the comments made by @Dave Warburton and @Madockawando. The vast selection of LC fantasy sets tells me Lionel has or is going after a different customer than me. No complaints or even disagreements. I won't be buying those fantasy sets NOW, but with one of my girls getting married in June, I could easily see getting a starter fantasy set in a few years to gin up interest in the family hobby either for myself or, more likely, for a grandchild. I did buy a WBB replica girls set and a Thomas LC when our youngest was 2 and 3, so while they aren't for me, I see why they sell and their importance to the suppliers.

Too small of a basement and layout plus other financial priorities keep me away from the impressive scale models.

That in-between, traditional/O27 market seems to be getting squeezed. There's rolling stock galore out there used and NOS, so that's not a worry at all.  The supply of new locos, especially steam, in this space seems like it will be cut back dramatically. With the death of Rail King and WBB on life support (from a new model perspective), I thought Lionel would come with a wide array of LC+ 2.0 engines in 2021. Could be, though, that this 'tweener segment isn't big enough to support much more than a couple re-done models each year.

@raising4daughters posted:

I'm with several of the comments made by @Dave Warburton and @Madockawando. The vast selection of LC fantasy sets tells me Lionel has or is going after a different customer than me. No complaints or even disagreements. I won't be buying those fantasy sets NOW, but with one of my girls getting married in June, I could easily see getting a starter fantasy set in a few years to gin up interest in the family hobby either for myself or, more likely, for a grandchild. I did buy a WBB replica girls set and a Thomas LC when our youngest was 2 and 3, so while they aren't for me, I see why they sell and their importance to the suppliers.

Too small of a basement and layout plus other financial priorities keep me away from the impressive scale models.

That in-between, traditional/O27 market seems to be getting squeezed. There's rolling stock galore out there used and NOS, so that's not a worry at all.  The supply of new locos, especially steam, in this space seems like it will be cut back dramatically. With the death of Rail King and WBB on life support (from a new model perspective), I thought Lionel would come with a wide array of LC+ 2.0 engines in 2021. Could be, though, that this 'tweener segment isn't big enough to support much more than a couple re-done models each year.

I think that is a good term for the section of the market Lionel seems to be moving away from: tweeners  who are not into fantasy or TV show based starter sets and whose modest size layouts are not suitable for these O-72 or even O-54 minimum curve monsters. I think there are a good number of us out there although we may not be as vocal as the high end scale crowd. Menards seems to be trying to fill that gap with their rolling stock but I would like to see Lionel produce those cars with the Lionel name and quality.

Agree with the last two posts. That's where I fit also.

The Lion Chief Plus and LC+ 2.0 really appeals to me and would love to see Lionel step it. There are a lot of locos to be made, steam and diesel. And some sets!

I am interested in the PRR Vision Line box car.  Sounds always bring a lot of smiles when visitors see the layout.  I like the PRR John Bull Set with 2 flat cars but don't think the budget can afford it.  I took a hit by ordering the PRR s1 in the fall catalog. Overall a good catalog.  I think its a good mix of fantasy and prototypical.

@johnstrains posted:

As someone who bought the Area 51 Railroad Set from the last catalog, that's about the way I see it. The loco and cars are exactly the same and the 2020 set did have Bluetooth control. It's just that this new offering has been upgraded to included voice control.

I think this needs clarification.  The set you own can utilize the Voice Control feature of the LionChief app that can be used for ALL Bluetooth equipped engines as stated on page 3 of the 2021 catalog.  What the new Area 51 set supports (that the previous version does not) is the "Voice streaming and recording feature" which requires that the engine be updated to Bluetooth 5.0.  The set in the 2021 catalog has a 21xxxxx item number to clearly identify that this set has the "Upgraded Bluetooth 5.0" whereas the previous set has a different version of Bluetooth.

I realized last night after playing with the updated LionChief app with the voice command that I have received my first 2021 Catalog item already. It works great, old and new, no issues! Thanks and kudos to Lionel on this homerun app in my opinion.

I also ordered the Area51 set and Nasa set. Not sure on some others.

I'm a tinplate guy so my wallet is safe. Some really cool stuff, but I have to admit the streamline express trains in heritage colors made me want to puke.

Steve

@GregM posted:

I think this needs clarification.  The set you own can utilize the Voice Control feature of the LionChief app that can be used for ALL Bluetooth equipped engines as stated on page 3 of the 2021 catalog.  What the new Area 51 set supports (that the previous version does not) is the "Voice streaming and recording feature" which requires that the engine be updated to Bluetooth 5.0.  The set in the 2021 catalog has a 21xxxxx item number to clearly identify that this set has the "Upgraded Bluetooth 5.0" whereas the previous set has a different version of Bluetooth.

Hey Greg,

Right you are. I just tried it and works fine with the App.

Right under my nose all the time!

Here are my likes in the 2021 catalog (in order of most likely to purchase):

     1. New Hope & Ivyland GP30 Passenger set - I think this set is the “sleeper” of the catalog, great MSRP $1000 hope to find it for $750 or lower, rode the prototype more than once. Now if Lionel would do a Strasburg #90 set I would be in.

     2. PRR Visionline Boxcar - being a “Pennsy” guy this one is high on the list if I can find one $150 or lower it’s a good deal.

     3. Strasburg SW8 - Nice but would like a Decapod or even a Mogul the Camelback is ok but was hoping for something else. $400 would be my buy price.

     4. PRR John Bull set on two flatcars - if it had command control it would be higher on my list. I would need a steal of a deal to buy it.

JohnB

Boycotting anything with a motor for I hope the rest of my life.  That said, the rolling stock keeps getting better with the advances in printing technology.  I look at some of these box cars and think 'how did they do that'.  Lots of neat pop culture stuff but still no MARVEL or Bond, James Bond.

@Lehigh74 posted:

The color scheme in the catalog looks like a good match to the prototype pictured in 2011.

Are the passenger cars in the set accurate in terms of style and prototype length?  I haven’t been there in years.

@Paul Finn posted:

Are the passenger cars in the set accurate in terms of style and prototype length?  I haven’t been there in years.

I have not seen them in years too but I believe they were x Reading commuter coaches and I think that is what Lionel is using based on the 4 wheel trucks

@Paul Finn posted:

Are the passenger cars in the set accurate in terms of style and prototype length?  I haven’t been there in years.

Well, the GP30's are 19" long, the set is 90.5". So the cars(4 of them), should be the standard of 18" long. The description says some rolling stock are old Reading cars. No idea if that is right. I did see that some of the pictures of the real deal look like they have antennas on some, but the art in the catalog appears to be lacking.

Plus no passenger figures listed if they have them or not. Most say they do as far as steam, and Acela, but diesel sets don't state.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, the GP30's are 19" long, the set is 90.5". So the cars(4 of them), should be the standard of 18" long. The description says some rolling stock are old Reading cars. No idea if that is right. I did see that some of the pictures of the real deal look like they have antennas on some, but the art in the catalog appears to be lacking.

Thanks,  I thought the cars in the set are 18” but is this correct?  Would the real cars scale to 21”?  

@Paul Finn posted:

Thanks,  I thought the cars in the set are 18” but is this correct?  Would the real cars scale to 21”?  

That I don't know. We would need to have some documentation on the cars themselves on the real railroad to figure that out. I had looked earlier in the day at the pictures but couldn't find anything giving details on roster. I'd wager it's out there, just needs to be found. Watching football(KC & Buffalo) ATM, so busy for now. See what I can find out later.

@raising4daughters posted:

Too small of a basement and layout plus other financial priorities keep me away from the impressive scale models..........That in-between, traditional/O27 market seems to be getting squeezed. There's rolling stock galore out there used and NOS, so that's not a worry at all.  The supply of new locos, especially steam, in this space seems like it will be cut back dramatically. With the death of Rail King and WBB on life support (from a new model perspective), I thought Lionel would come with a wide array of LC+ 2.0 engines in 2021.

@Madockawando posted:

....... tweeners  who are not into fantasy or TV show based starter sets and whose modest size layouts are not suitable for these O-72 or even O-54 minimum curve monsters. I think there are a good number of us out there although we may not be as vocal as the high end scale crowd. .

@johnstrains posted:

Agree with the last two posts. That's where I fit also.

The Lion Chief Plus and LC+ 2.0 really appeals to me and would love to see Lionel step it. There are a lot of locos to be made, steam and diesel. And some sets!

I think that's were the majority is - those who have modest-sized layouts. The LionChief series has been extremely popular and are more appealing than ever with the new Plus2 features. Like the others, I was very surprised Lionel offered so little new (only one new engine, and not that many repeated types of engines, either) in the LionChief Plus2 line in this catalog. I think they missed the mark on that. As johnstrains said, there are a lot of locos to be made, steam and diesel.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, the GP30's are 19" long, the set is 90.5". So the cars(4 of them), should be the standard of 18" long. The description says some rolling stock are old Reading cars. No idea if that is right. I did see that some of the pictures of the real deal look like they have antennas on some, but the art in the catalog appears to be lacking.

I have the B&M versions of these cars from last year. They are 18.5” reading commuter coaches. I believe they’re 72’ in real life. No passenger figures included, but its not very hard to add them.

The L-2a mohawks were the highlight of the catalog for me, especially the one dressed as a New Haven R-2a class mountain. Despite some road name specific modifications these engines are virtually identical to the Central's L-2as. Props to Lionel for doing this one, very excited!

@biscuitag97 posted:

I have the B&M versions of these cars from last year. They are 18.5” reading commuter coaches. I believe they’re 72’ in real life. No passenger figures included, but its not very hard to add them.

Yeah, I sort of thought they'd be about that. I went on Google Maps to use the foot scale to the satellite pictures and it is in between 50-100 feet, some slightly smaller than others, but figured closer to 72.

@Peter B posted:

The L-2a mohawks were the highlight of the catalog for me, especially the one dressed as a New Haven R-2a class mountain. Despite some road name specific modifications these engines are virtually identical to the Central's L-2as. Props to Lionel for doing this one, very excited!

I agree, Peter... one thing I’m missing from my steam collection is a Mohawk/Mountain. While I’m a big NYC fan, I also love the NH. I really hope the NH gets made!!!

@Apples55 posted:

I agree, Peter... one thing I’m missing from my steam collection is a Mohawk/Mountain. While I’m a big NYC fan, I also love the NH. I really hope the NH gets made!!!

I agree with you as well Paul. I'm a big fan of both the New York Central and New Haven. While New Haven 4-8-2 mountains have been done before the R-2a is a version which hasn't been done before, not even in brass! This is an example of something I really like seeing the manufactures do which is using existing tooling to bring out a new product. The R-2a is brand new to the model train world and given how it's so close to the Central's L-2as I think it was smart of Lionel to do it this way. I'll be ordering it for sure.