The debate about smoking diesels.

Smoke.  If you don't want it turn it off, but they smoke in real life, smoke 'em on the layout.

 

-rog

Smoke em if you got em!

Real diesels smoke. For realism why not allow model diesels to smoke?

If you don't care for smoke keep the unit turned off.

As for me, I set the smoke unit on high and let it fly. 

 

Bob

Smoke units on my diesel  engines are primed and tested when new out of the box, then turned off.  I may run one with smoke on from time to time but, normally I leave the smoke off.

Now, steam engines are a different story.  With them it is all smoke all the time.

Curt

Smoking diesels are "broken" in my book. As a child growing up in Roanoke, you could easily spot smoking Alcos from a distance. On my layout, a smoking diesel is "broken".

 

I agree with Curt about steamers. A nice steady stream of smoke is very nice.

 

Gilly

Smoking Alco's are OK.  However, if thay had fire shooting 15 scale feet into the air, THAT would be more realistic.

Doesn't any internal combustion engine produce some sort of smoke or output?  Even in modern diesels that are diesel/electric there has to be some sort of output, no?  Could the "debate" or conversation just be related to volume of smoke or output?  Maybe running a toy train on low smoke is more realistic.

 

I am no expert on real trains, just asking some basic questions that maybe the experts can help with. 

We're comparing a natural by-product of a real diesel locomotive, to one of a toy (or a replica, for the scale enthusiasts) which is not natural.

 

Seems while many modelers want the the diesel smoke feature, there seem to be just as many threads with complaints about it not working. There was a recent one where the poster called Lionel "junk" because the diesel smoke wasn't working. Marty Fitzhenry, I thought, offered an intelligent, well thought out answer.

 

I've purchased these motor driven smoke units from K-Line, Lionel and MTH for my own custom made projects. I've had problems with every single one. I don't consider the companies are making junk. As Marty said in the other thread, it just seems to be an inherent problem with a very tiny motor placed in an environment that produces a lot of heat. 

 

Given all the problems I have read here about diesel smoke units, and probably the numbers of returns Lionel has received, I highly doubt Mike Reagan wants the service problems to continue. I would think if there was a better, economical way, Lionel might already be utilizing it.

 

As for me, I can just pretend the diesels are emitting smoke.

 

For those who need them to actually put out smoke, I would say, you'd better be prepared (as much as you might not like it) to send the loco in for service, or to do the repairs yourself. Imaginary diesel smoke might not have the same "wow" factor. But it doesn't have the same frustration or repair costs.

Alcos and first gen diesels smoke. EMD second generation diesels do not smoke unless they are broken. GE first and Second Generations Smoke Third Generation and current do no unless they have issues which lead to tissues.

 

Smoke is fine for a momentary effect.  Running it all the time, while operating a layout, in a confined space without a method to ventilate the room (exhaust it outside) will be the cause for making your train room look like Cleveland or Pittsburgh during the high time of steel production.  Not a happy experience.  

I like my toy trains to smoke...

Alcos and first gen diesels smoke. EMD second generation diesels do not smoke unless they are broken. GE first and Second Generations Smoke Third Generation and current do no unless they have issues which lead to tissues.

 

That or they're working their a++es off! 

 

If its pre-emission then by all means roll coal any thing with a particulate system defiantly not!!! Even though I'm in to diesel truck pulling as my other hobby to much smoke is annoying

No debate here, I love um.

Alcos are honorary steamers.  I totally agree with prrhorseshoecurve, and would add diesels especially smoke heavy upon initial ignition and smoke is more apparent in colder weather.  I use JT's scented fluids and generally run my diesels where you can smell them, but hardly see smoke.

 

Stack 

 

Any diesel will smoke in the real world for a number of different reasons. When you see a diesel black smoke that usually means the throttle is getting hammered and the injectors are dumping to much fuel for it to combust properly giving you the black smoke.  Black smoke usually occurs with a train going up a steep grade, or when a trains just trying to get moving with a heavy load. Blue smoke from a diesel indicates that engine lubricating oil is burning. Example: oil entering combustion chamber via warn valve guides, or seals, etc. Last but not least is grey smoke which indicates raw unburnt fuel is passing into the exhaust chamber due to low cylinder compression, bad injector, etc. That's just my 2 cent. Merry Christmas. 

How'd that old saying go?

 

"Inside every ALCO is an EMD, trying to get out through the smoke stack."

 

 

 

And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath.
He had a broad face and a little round belly,
that shook when he laughed, like a bowl full of jelly








Best Wishes to All…

K.C.

 

To me, the question is whether the widely reported operational problems with smoke units, combined with their cost and our ambivalence about them (as reflected in this and many other threads), would leave everyone better off without smoke units on diesels.  I realize that one can turn off the smoke unit in most new diesels, but that leaves many guys paying for something they will never use and that likely will malfunction if used.  

 

I don't know how much smoke units add to the price of a diesel, but if you assume the manufacturers build in anticipated service costs, it likely is more than nominal.  And I cannot think of another feature on engines that has such a dubious cost/benefit ratio. 

 

Chris Dunn

They have smoke units on diesels? 

 

Art

What debate?  We can each do as we please.  So what if full scale diesels smoke or don't?

 

Pete

No smoke units in any of my diesels BUT I have smoked a few diesels and sent them to the backshops.

If my scale Alcos would produce black smoke instead of the white smoke, I would probably turn the smoke units on.  Actually, I disconnect my smoke units electrically after they have been tested one.  I prefer the "pretend" smoke from my diesels.

Not the case on my layout. My new MTH RK Scale RS-3 puts out very little smoke and my ES44AC's smoke like Big Boy's (no puffing, of course). Maybe they are not checking the new Tiered emission standards closely enough? Oops, no maintenance facilities on the layout yet, maybe that's the problem?

 

I run the smoke units until I hear "Is that train smoke I smell" echoing loudly down the basement stairs. I then reply "No Dear" and immediately turn off all smoke units.

 

Actually the real trains I see around here don't smoke too much.

It would be hard to run "full scale" in your basement.  Is anything that is full scale really real?  That question is too hard to fathom today.  

My MTH SD70 smokes too much!   Even though threre is a pot to turn with a screwdriver, it has liimited effect:   Humongous smoke.   Very strong smoke.  No smoke.

 

I would like a lite smoke that looks more like the heated exhaust that comes from the modern diesel - that would be a strong fan, but very  light output.

 

Just my preferences.   As is, I am running the loco with the "Very strong smoke" mostly, and some with "No Smoke".

Not a diesel, but since it uses diesel fuel, has anyone put a smoke unit in a GG-1 to represent the steam generator exhaust?

 

 

Watching a long heavy manifest freight or coal train going up Horseshoe Curve with older narrow cab diesel power will usually yield a great sound (especially hammering EMD's) and a fair amount of smoke.

 

Watching 3 wide cabs burble past like idling cars is boring though usually smoke free and better for the environment.

 

 

My JLC GG-1 has a steam release (aka smoke unit) that triggers randomly and shoots out s jet of smoke.

 

Someone actually had the cab of an FT or F3 or one of those that look similar to those in their basement. Pictures or a video was also posted somewhere, possible here, but I forget where I saw it. Could have also been in a magazine? I believe they had the thing lowered into the basement as the house was being built, if I remember it correctly?

My wife has declared that neither steam locomotives nor diesel locomotives smoke in the house. 

My Lionel BNSF ES44ac puts out a big puff of smoke on start up, but when running it is very faint, When I stop and start up again there is that big puff of smoke,Very prototypical of ES44ac.My Lionel UP SD70 ACE smokes all the time. What is the reason they put smoke units in our diesel engines.

Fred

Just a guess, because the customer wanted it?

The same reason that the various manufacturers put green or red colored bulbs/LEDs in the front classification lights.

 

Ditto.  I am not allowed to "smoke" in the house; by order of the GM.

If you examine the pictures I posted, this would counter your claim as far as modern diesels are concerned. They smoke under load and that does not mean they are broken as some have suggested.

 

Pete