The Gum Stump & Snowshoe: Has Anybody Tried it In O Scale?

You can’t switch that layout with only a single engine. There is nowhere to run around anything. That seems like a major omission.

Drops, Rich. Drops.

Andre

Wasn’t that particular issue with switching due to some odd wiring on the part of the author? IIRC he did something bizarre with the switches wiring that almost nobody does when recreating the layout. The run around problem is something of a design flaw, a lot of people apparently go for adding a passing track somewhere on the lower level. 

I do find the idea of the layout interesting, though maybe it just isn’t suited to larger scales?

Interesting layout idea.  I have designed a few switch-back layouts, and built one in N scale years ago, in 3'x5' I recall.   Worked nice.   With O we need to extend the layout to get reasonable grades.   Do you think 6% would work for a loco and one or two cars?

Here is a first try in O with FasTrack.  2'x14'.   Plenty of run for 4% to reach 6", so I may look to make it shorter, and look for a passing siding opportunity.

Max train length here is a 30" straight plus a 5" lighted bumper (about 33" of usable length).

A second try with a run-around track:

Everything brown is level.  Part of the run-around is on the 6% grade, setting out cars on that grade?

Better:

5.8" rise at 5%, more at 6%.  Doable.  Over the 14' of length, there really isn't much of that available for grades.

This re-arrangement is not as artistic, but maximizes the length for grades.   

Perhaps more interesting:

This configuration might be more interesting:

One might run the passing track at 1%, and get a little more rise overall, but no additional vertical clearance.

Turnouts are O60.  One curve at O60, others at O72, O84, and O96.

If you look back at in the OGR digital archives, if they go back that far, you should be able to find an article about a 2 rail layout based on this plan.  The author did include a run around track.  It was a very detailed railroad.  Layout size was 2 feet by 12 feet.  I tried this as well but the grade is a challenge.  It is incorporated into the main layout as a longish animation.  A switcher with one car works the grade using an auto reverse board.  

With some terrain:

• 45" at 1% = 0.45"
• 55" at 6" = 3.3"
• 69" at 6% = 4.14"

7.9" total rise.

@Rich Melvin posted:

You can’t switch that layout with only a single engine. There is nowhere to run around anything. That seems like a major omission.

well... there are 2 locomotives in the drawing which I recall from the original article. 

I also seem to recall seeing a suggestion long ago to reverse the siding at the top (was that gum stump, or snowshoe?) and to run the locomotive to viewers left. This had the added benefit of the locomotive always being at the front during the steepest part of the downgrade, passing under the bridge. I played with the idea of an o-27 layout on a 6' by 6' "L" shelf layout, but the grade was too steep as the switchbacks took up too much space. 

@Greg Nagy posted:

well... there are 2 locomotives in the drawing which I recall from the original article. 

I also seem to recall seeing a suggestion long ago to reverse the siding at the top (was that gum stump, or snowshoe?) and to run the locomotive to viewers left. This had the added benefit of the locomotive always being at the front during the steepest part of the downgrade, passing under the bridge. I played with the idea of an o-27 layout on a 6' by 6' "L" shelf layout, but the grade was too steep as the switchbacks took up too much space. 

An "L" shape might be more interesting!

It's not O gauge, but I began building a 2x10 version in HO long ago.  The expansion allowed for gentler grades and two mainline tracks for a run around and possible modular expansion:

Sold it to a hobby shop when I moved up to S scale and they completed it:

Rusty

Here with Atlas-O, minimum O54.  Some room for structures @ 3x14.  Minimum spur is 40+".

I added the double-track line to the left, thinking that would give space to put cars temporarily while switching.   And it suggests a mainline.  This version is a bit of switching puzzle.

Atlas-O with some structures

Here the mainline continues as single track to the right, with a parallel spur.

This is my favorite shelf layout design of all time. Lots of scenic opportunities and the run around track on the lower level allows a lot of switching opportunities in a small space. I built an HO version a long time ago in a one room apartment and stored it in the closet! You came up with a great design! I tried to add a reverse loop by exiting to the left, running hidden around the rear, and then reentering on the right. Since you are limited to short engines and stubby cars, then 027 curves are acceptable. But I don't think there is enough headroom to clear the mid height switchback track. 

I've got the Docksider, the Menards Melrose Park station, the single stall engine house, the disconnect cars, the skeleton logging cars, even Beep and a couple of Peeps passenger cars. I'm ready to go!!!  ;>)

Bob

Dear List,

Please review attachments to view the article featured in Nov 1990 48/ft Magazine.

Similar articles were done in OGR and Railmodel Journal.

Lots of fun honing my model railroading skills with handling the track and switches.

Scratchbuilding buildings and detailing the heck out of the modular layout.

DC power was by Dallee electronics.

Motive power was a Overland models Whitcomb 44 tanner and a Lee Snover 25 tonner.

A very challenging switching operation setting off and picking up the 6 cars for there cooresponding industries,

Generally took 45 minutes to complete switching operations.

Enjoy !!!! John P. Dunn Sr Scale2Rail Promotions

               Strasburg 10/17/2020

@BobHastings posted:

This is my favorite shelf layout design of all time. Lots of scenic opportunities and the run around track on the lower level allows a lot of switching opportunities in a small space. I built an HO version a long time ago in a one room apartment and stored it in the closet! You came up with a great design! I tried to add a reverse loop by exiting to the left, running hidden around the rear, and then reentering on the right. Since you are limited to short engines and stubby cars, then 027 curves are acceptable. But I don't think there is enough headroom to clear the mid height switchback track. 

I've got the Docksider, the Menards Melrose Park station, the single stall engine house, the disconnect cars, the skeleton logging cars, even Beep and a couple of Peeps passenger cars. I'm ready to go!!!  ;>)

Bob

Thanks Bob, it turned out interesting.

Here is how I figure the grades

From the turnout on the left at 0"

• Climb at 6% to the next turnout, 58.5".  At 6% the rise is 3.51".
• Climb from the intermediate level through tunnel, to the top level is 74".  At 6%, the rise is 4.44"
• The total rise over the switchback is 7.95".  Call it 8", or 7.9", either way enough clearance at the double-track tunnel.

The inside tunnel height of the center tunnel on the switchback, needs to be 6" above the track below, which will be about 7" on exiting the tunnel at the left portal.   So that would be 13" to the tunnel ceiling, and maybe 16" to the top of the mountain.

I figure a switcher or short loco, can pull and push three cars up the 6% grades easy.

I still have HO track in a plywood "board" from decades ago where l saw that or similar article and built a switching layout.

To be workable other than a scenic display, a run around track is absolutely necessary as mentioned above.    Other than that the original has interesting scenic possibilities.

Another option that really would "expand" beyond the layout would be a portable "fiddle" yard that could be put in place at one end or the other.    This could be removable and just a flat board with a track or two as long as space allows.    This place would be where cars from the "outside world" arrive and depart.      The operator would put and place cars on this board to initiate sessions.    The switcher from the GS&S would run out there to set out outbounds and pickup inbounds.    

The idea of two locos in such a small place is probably not very prototypical for the amount of industry served.   And they would probably be getting in each other's way on the layout as much as helping.

Adding a siding for additional car & train storage, with hidden storage under the mountain.

Added Mine #1, for more switching and traffic.  #1 implies there are more mines on the line that continues past the station.

Decorating with some trees:

Calculating grades (again):

• 1st leg of the switchback: 61"
• 2nd leg of the switchback (including the wye at the top): 74.25"
• Total of 135.25"
• 135.25 @ 4% == 5.41, can do at 4%!  5% gives 6.76".
• Using the Woodland Scenics inclines at 5% (5/96, a bit more than 5%) = =7" of rise.  You can make a 5% incline by layering a 2% incline on top of a 3% incline - I have done this, easy.

Gum, Stump and Showshoe: 

For the GS&S, the run on grade is a bit less than 6', at 4% claimed, gives a rise of 2.88".   Not enough clearance at the bridge for On30.   At 6%, the rise is 4.32".

John,

I’ve always liked the GS&SS trackplan and i built one in N scale many years ago. I had not seen your O scale article until now and I love it. 

Thanks for posting, Malcolm

PS: I really love the Whitcomb switcher!

There was actually an article in O Gauge Railroading Run 115/February 1991 and covered in O Scale News in November 1990 on the Linfield and Northern done by John Dunn. It was indeed based on the GS&S H.O. layout and was just under 12 feet long and two feet wide. Very good article and is available in the Digital Archives. Here's what the plan looks like (from O scale News). Unlike the GS&S, he added run-around capability

I built one in 2 rail O scale about 15 years ago, wish I had the photos to prove it! I used a U.S. Hobbies Western Maryland Shay #6 to climb the grade and a Sunset Models WM Russian Decapod Number 1110 to switch the lower portion. I was trying to replicate the actual WM Chaffee branch and this little layout did it quite well although after a few years it became a little monotonous moving coal hoppers and the occasional box car from point A to point B.  My version was roughly 13' x 2.5' and I cut the upper portion down to 4.5" instead of the six or eight that it would have been if I followed the plans in Model Railroader.  This made the grade more manageable, even for a Shay.  The prototype Chaffee had one grade in excess of 5% so this pike was not too far off the mark regarding the real McCoy.   It is definitely worth pursuing in O scale if you have at least 13 feet of length. Looking back through these posts now makes me miss my version.

If you want a wicked good O scale switching pike in the same space, check out the Pioneer Valley in Model Railroader, September, October, November 1994.  Three part series on everything from benchwork to tracks, buildings and rolling stock. No steep grades and MUCH more operating flexibility that translates well into either two or three rail. 

@Cadillac Mike posted:

...

If you want a wicked good O scale switching pike in the same space, check out the Pioneer Valley in Model Railroader, September, October, November 1994.  Three part series on everything from benchwork to tracks, buildings and rolling stock. No steep grades and MUCH more operating flexibility that translates well into either two or three rail. 

I remember that layout. I think it was Michael Tylick who built it. Very nice work and a good mix of industries. All hand-laid track.

One name Associated: John Dunn.
So,  this layout was the belle of the ball at The O scale national in Stamford Connecticut years ago. It was extraordinary to watch and John was responsible for my entry into O scale  (I say this with a lot of appreciation in my heart). It was such a cool layout to consider that I marched right over to buy the number six turnout kits and rail from Beat Hugg owner of Old Pullman at the time. I did enjoy running it and added a return loop. John Dunn is a fantastic guy and his demonstration layouts were fun to operate. I would imagine I wasn’t the only postwar guy who crossed over into O scale that weekend.
Linfield Northern and Southern=Belle of the Ball!

The article on the Gum Stump & Snowshoe RR appeared in Model Railroader Magazine, April 1966, pp. 32-33.  The author, Chuck Yungkurth, explains the use of two engines instead of a runaround as well as the reason for the turnout wiring.

I realized that if one has an additional 40" of length, the rotating cassette can actually mate on the end with four tracks.   Now that is pretty slick!   And still plug into the two front tracks (shown with a removable two-track 40" module in place, for when the cassette is not plugged-in to the front).

I could add one more track to the cassette, and actually connect with FIVE tracks.   Probably worth it to someone.

Perhaps with this much storage on the cassette, the front siding may not be needed.  I may look at shortening the layout length a bit, so that more folks could use the end connection with the cassette - that looks too useful!

Now about 13'6" by 2'10":

No reason one can't have two cassettes.

Some terrain and tree clean-up:

Did some fine-tuning and "perfecting", added two work-house with sound sheds, and shed for a speeder/track-car.

I reversed the cattle pen and milk can accessories to face the spur, to see what I though about a double-track mainline through the layout looked.

Minimum diameter on the double-track mainline is O81.  Minimum curvature to reach the engine house is O63, but with an O54 turnout off the main.

Well Ken, now that you added a speeder shed, I MUST build the Gumstump and Snowshoe! I own two 1 foot to 1 foot scale speeders. I belong to a motorcar club, the North American Railcar Operators Association {www.narcoa.org). We operate our speeders at excursions all over the country. But I digress. I'd like to use Ross track and switches on this project. Since i'm starting from scratch,  Is there anything that Ross track will not fit in this design? 

@BobHastings posted:

Well Ken, now that you added a speeder shed, I MUST build the Gumstump and Snowshoe! I own two 1 foot to 1 foot scale speeders. I belong to a motorcar club, the North American Railcar Operators Association {www.narcoa.org). We operate our speeders at excursions all over the country. But I digress. I'd like to use Ross track and switches on this project. Since i'm starting from scratch,  Is there anything that Ross track will not fit in this design? 

Ross should be fine, the turnout angles might be different, but not really affecting the design, just adjustments.

Cool! Two speeders!

Is there an anyrail file you can share? I use RR-Track software myself but it should be an easy conversion.

Thanks,

Bob