The High Price of Memories

Mike,

I love what you have written and you are right on the money.
Your thoughtful words rang true with me.
My childhood memories of Lionel Trains will always be with me.

How I wish I could have one more day with my father at Penn Station.

Eliot

Yes... "My childhood memories of Lionel Trains will always be with me." That is a great sentiment but memories are not a trading commodity.

The dealer trying to sell the cardboard box for $2500 is trying to cash in on sentimentality, nostalgia and the "collectibles bug".

I see cardboard box collecting as an extension of general toy train collecting. Once collectors have reached a point where they have an example of most everything they are looking for what's left to search for and buy? Boxes. It's got nothing to do with memories, sentiment or the aesthetics or beauty of the object. It's just another THING to buy.

And as for high prices, what about the prices for early Lionel tinplate? They are in the multi-thousands of dollars. And those prices are not driven by Christmas nostalgia since most modern collectors are not old enough to have received a brass #7 loco for Christmas...

Getting back to the original post, "How much does someone anyone pay for memories?" Nothing! You can't buy back your childhood nor purchase memories.

MrNabisco,

Your last point is undoubtedly debatable!

One can only try to the best of your abilities purchase something that reminds one of the memory-- that with time fades and the person dies and the item becomes just some junk, until it is discovered by someone else and has value again.

On and on into infinity or until it is ruined.

When I close my eyes, I may see something that was never there to begin with but I can remember (as I think each of us can) a simpler time when I didn't have quite so many, many worries on my mind and call that time MAGICAL!

Mike Maurice

There's the extrinsic value -- what EVERYONE ELSE thinks it's worth.
There's the intrinsic value -- what YOU think it's worth. Ultimately this is the true value of any given item.

Don't beat yourself up over it. We all go down that road when we're on the "everyone else" side of the equation.

When I first got back into 3-rail O gauge in the early 1980s, I was definitely drawn by the nostalgia aspect of the trains. I no longer had my original trains, so I sought out my 1951 Berkshire and 1953 Santa Fe F3s.

I learned a lot about variations, and the changes these models underwent through the years in order to get accurate '51 and '53 versions. Of course, I had the boxes with my original trains, so I felt that I should seek out the boxes too.

Then, the next "logical" step was to get those items I had always wanted as a kid, but which we couldn't afford. I was well on my way to being a postwar collector/operator.

But, then somewhere in the 1990s, modern trains started becoming available that had many more features than my postwar favorites, and which were far and away better runners.

If I had the financial means, I would have left the postwar on nice display shelves, and purchased the modern trains to run. However, it was more practical (and necessary) for me to keep just a few favorites, so I could use the proceeds from sales of the others to finance my current layout and modern, command-equipped trains.

The way I look at it, my early experiences with Lionel sent me off with a life-long love of trains, and gave me a hobby that has provided immense personal satisfaction and many friendships over the years.

I realize now that, while it would be nice, I do not need a shelf-full of 1950s era trains to satisfy my sense of nostalgia. The hobby itself is my reward and my connection with those early days with trains that my father and I enjoyed.

Of course, if I were to hit it big in the lottery tomorrow....

Jim

quote:

I realize now that, while it would be nice, I do not need a shelf-full of 1950s era trains to satisfy my sense of nostalgia. The hobby itself is my reward and my connection with those early days with trains that my father and I enjoyed.

Jim, I'm sure these words ring true with many of us. I'm so glad I got back into trains, dad made that happen too, now, the whole trip through this hobby is one big nostalgia journey. Some say you shouldn't look back, but one of the wonderful aspects of this modern day is the internet, where I talk and met with like minded folk around the world and rediscover old friendships, our good memories of the past give real meaning to the value of our lives lived.

quote:

...I can remember (as I think each of us can) a simpler time when I didn't have quite so many, many worries on my mind and call that time MAGICAL!

I call that time childhood, and those of us who had a happy one are very fortunate indeed.

When it comes to memories it's like Rick Nelson said, "If memories were all I sang, I'd rather drive a truck."

It's the memories of the future that really matter.

Pete

I got my first train when I was 10 it was N scale.My father didn't have trains.My grandad and grandma couldn't afford them on a mechanics salary.Dad didn't have any disposable cash till he became a lieutenant in the army.My dad did what every parent tries to do- give their children more than they had when they were kids.

I've made friends here and on the N scale forum but it's more in the now than back then . I have some fond memories of Christmas past but as an adult I realize they are just that . I don't dwell I hopefully have many more in front of me.

A cardboard box for $2500 is ridiculous I don't care how you justify it,it's stupid . I know that's a harsh word to use here but it is what it is.You can throw out all kinds of arguments in favor of it like "it's his Money" and in that respect you're right, it is but the guy is also a moron.

In this scale you have engines that are the same price wise as their G scale counterparts Why? someone said it was because O scalers will pay that much.I guess thats why Lionel thinks we'll pay 2100 bucks for a set of centipedes and seeing things like that $2500 box sure isn't an argument against that theory.


David

DPC,

Who am I to say how much is too much (for that matter, too d--- much)? I can and did give my opinion (which I after some consideration retracted). Just as you can give yours on this forum, but you don't see it with a child's eyes, you are seeing it from a grown ups perspective.

Who,honestly, among us (as children) is that brazen to say when looking salivatingly with the perspective of a child at something we all love (and gotta have now), how much is it? It has to be a secondary or tertiary thought.

As adults we have budgets and spending limits but as children all we had was our imaginations!

I can remember very vaguely tugging at my Dads pant leg and letting him stop for a moment and look at the wonder in my eyes as we both reveled in the joy of toy trains. Ah....simpler times those...

I paid just over $100 last year to purchase a boxed, never-been-run duplicate of my first Lionel set. The memories the set brought back to me were priceless.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Maurice:
DPC,

Who am I to say how much is too much (for that matter, too d--- much)? I can and did give my opinion (which I after some consideration retracted). Just as you can give yours on this forum, but you don't see it with a child's eyes, you are seeing it from a grown ups perspective.

Who,honestly, among us (as children) is that brazen to say when looking salivatingly with the perspective of a child at something we all love (and gotta have now), how much is it? It has to be a secondary or tertiary thought.

As adults we have budgets and spending limits but as children all we had was our imaginations!

I can remember very vaguely tugging at my Dads pant leg and letting him stop for a moment and look at the wonder in my eyes as we both reveled in the joy of toy trains. Ah....simpler times those...

Your absolutely right we had the world and beyond as children for our imagination but that's why you don't have children running fortune 500 companys.

And I guess it's no different than the guy willing to lay down 5 grand for a 700E or the guy who paid over 300K for the Lionel tin plate, it's their money and I respect them for that.I'll also stand fast on my opinion and say I think it's stupid

David

Guys and Gals,


Thank each and everyone of you for commenting the way that you did. It is special indeed to have you as friends and far off (especially Woy-Woy)acqauintances.

Keep those thoughts fresh and your memories alive, I, for one am glad to see that you still have yours and can share them with all of us here. To those of you who will be at the Fall York, I look forward to meeting you.

Mike Maurice
TCA# 11-66628

We didn't have any trains growing up, but I did have this back in 1954-55:



I wonder how much one would cost now?

I guess my method of nostalgia falls between the direction others have taked.

We had Lionel fever at our home. Up until about 1955 we had at least one of every thing in the catalog. Then I really started to see how Disney like the proportions these things had next to real RR photos and our fan triping. I switched to HO with glee to get proper looking stuff.

When I returned to model RRing I saw all the little stuff at Nicholas Smith and thought "there has to be a better way".

That's when I discovered 0 scale.

So my return visit into the hobby consisted of getting scale versions of all my childhood Lionel toys. Now I am a happy o gauger. I do not have the original downsized model but actually have a better version of it. This method makes me twice as pleased as a half century ago. Not only do I have the same roads, styles and logos but they actually look right; big bold and brawney.

However this is only my way, most of my o gauge friends have their first train set or a replacement of it and are very happy with it.....tt

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:
We didn't have any trains growing up, but I did have this back in 1954-55:



I wonder how much one would cost now?

Bet you had a lot of best friends the day after Christmas

David

My situation was like Bob's. I did not have trains while growing up. So for me, the memories are about not having trains and about the trains I wished that I had.

I completely understand about the value of memories. They are priceless, and I hope never to get into a bidding war with someone as determined to buy the same memory as me!

Early this year I bid on a 1937ish Marx wind up train set: it was my Dad's as a child and I have a picture of him and me on the carpet playing with it when I was only three. The set was an exact match for the photo and complete - and the only one I had ever seen. I don't have much of any memntos of my Dad now and I was determined to have that set.

After two days of going back and forth raising my bid over and over against two other bidders, with slightly more that a full day before the bid closed and the price approaching $1,000, and knowing how the e-bay proxy bidding system works, in frustration I "nuked" it and submitted a bid well into the five figure range: I WAS NOT GOING TO LOSE THIS OPPORTUNITY. I ended up paying a bit over $2000 - I think e-bay pricing me at $100 over a bid of two grand someone else submitted at the last minute. Way, way more than market, I think.

I still feel, not guilty exactly, but regretful that there is someone else out there to whom that set was precious, too, and that I took it away from their having it. But . . . I would have paid my full bid price, or more - I was on line when the bid closed and ready to increase my bid if that was what it took. It was that important to me, and I assume there are many other stories out there just like mine.

After reading everyone else's comments, I've been thinking about what I wanted to say. I guess it all boils down to two sayings; "Perception is reality," and "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
So, if something brings back a pleasant childhood memory into focus, then who are we to question that.
Enjoy your memories.

I guess if one has money to burn, a $2,500.00 or $10,000.00 box is no object. But it's just a B O X! Will it really enhance the value of a set? I'm no authority, but it's all in how bad one needs original completeness, I guess.

quote:

Will it really enhance the value of a set?

For most collectors, absolutely yes.

Do you ever watch Antiques Roadshow?
The Toy Experts often explain that having the original box in nice shape dramatically increases the value of the item.

quote:

Your absolutely right we had the world and beyond as children for our imagination but that's why you don't have children running fortune 500 companys.

The $2,500 box is not for me. I wouldn't pay more than 10 dollars, and then only if I had the engine (dummy) that goes in it.
I also have no interest in running my life or my hobby as a business, fortune 500 or otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Jumijo:
I paid just over $100 last year to purchase a boxed, never-been-run duplicate of my first Lionel set. The memories the set brought back to me were priceless.

AMEN to that brother.
What matters to each of us is all that it boils down too.
Some see no value in the boxes, some see lots of value there.
Personally, I cannot recall ever seeing a box that any of the trains Santa gave us came in. Nor a single page of instructions.
Santa always assembled the track and had the train on the rails for us.
Many times it was just a new car or two for addition to the trains we had.
Once it was just a new Transformer, But it was a big Powerful monster!
Funny thing, the train never ran when you moved the throttle. Seems wiring was not his strong suit. My brother and I had them running in a couple minutes every time.

And in response to another post i the thread, I always wanted a Crane car, never got one.
Now I have 5 of them with boom cars including the MOW X-12 TMCC set.
2 of them are PW with the sliders for the couplers. The boom cars for those do not match, I'm not sure they ever did.

So yes Folks, My childhood is very happy I rediscovered model Trains.

Memories are free. Pretending to replicate them can get expensive.

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Pete:
Memories are free. Pretending to replicate them can get expensive.

Pete

Yes it can, but it can be very satisfying, too. Nothing I bought in the last several years brought as much warmth as that Marx set I spoke about earlier: I have it in a special place in my study along with the framed phot of my Dad and I with his identical set 59 years ago. I'm glad I bought it. I even keep the tender backwards (for some reason we had set it up backwards in the photo).
I ended up buying another identical loco, tender, and the entire rolling stock all indidivually and fitting that loco with an electric motor so I can run it on my layout. Not quite as satisfying, but nearly as much fun. I know I'm chasing memories but is is fun and brings a kind of peace and comfort, at least for me.

quote:

I know I'm chasing memories but is is fun and brings a kind of peace and comfort...

I'm down with that, brother.

Pete

Guys,

I accomplished it! We are talking about our sweet memories, though some may not be as sweet, thanks for sharing yours with me.

Mike Maurice

Guys,

 

I do not mean to mix topics here, but it comes down to evaluating the price of sale of anothers stuff that you simply consider what it maybe worth to the seller to part from it as well as a future buyer.

 

Fellas, we here are in the business of selling our dreams to one another. I ask you, while we are all alive to be respectful of each other enough for this!

 

That is the only reason I brought up this ancient post!

 

Mike

 

Ps. I believe one's dreams are priceless, it has been an honor (and will continue to be) to be a part of this highly respected forum.

Good Job Mike;

Re-reading this thread has brought a tear of fond remembrance to my eye in an otherwise bad week.

I think I'll go down to the basement and run the trains tonight.

Everything else can just wait.

Who are we to question what someone else is willing to pay for a box, or a memory, or even an imagined memory.  Some of you think it is senseless while others think if that's what he wants.

That's all that matters is what the buyer wants.  I said this in another thread; If you are satisfied with the price you paid for the product you got, then you got a good deal.

Nuff said.

Amen, Trainpop! Amen!

$2,500 for a box?  Why not?

 

If you've watched the show American Restoration on the History Channel, featuring Rick's Restorations of Las Vegas, NV, you've seen many a person who has brought a rare rusty relic to Rick just to have it restored to the condition he/she remembers receiving and playing with it as a child.  For some of the restorations $2,500 would be a bargain.  Often the memories alone are indeed priceless, but a restored item...or a dilapidated ol' box with a Lionel label on it!...to fuel that memory...well,if one has the $$$, why not?  Sometimes the items restored remind them of a loved one, a parent, the things they treasured or were observed using each day. 

 

No, I myself would never pay $2,500 for the set box of that Lionel Santa Fe set I received in about 1950 (I yet have every piece of the set EXCEPT that and most of the other individual boxes, though!),

 

...but I would pay a surprising amount to get an original bedroom lamp that once sat atop the dresser in my room as a toddler.  It was red plastic and had a rotating drum on which was a gaily painted train.  The drum rotated from the heat of the lamp inside...much like the principal used in Lionel's early rotating beacon.  There was a stationary inner drum that had beautiful scenes painted on it that the train sped by.

Mom would turn on that lamp, turn out the room light, say 'Goodnight!', pull the door mostly closed.  Then I would stare at that lamp.  Slowly it would begin to spin, then faster and faster.  It was magic.  I was happily mesmerized to sleep.

 

I keep looking, though.  Maybe someday. 

 

Why?  Probably for the same reason someone would pay $2,500 for a box.

 

Why not?

 

KD

Wow, KD, I love that story. I suspect your lamp had everything to do with your interest in trains today!

Mike, thanks for reviving this thread again; I missed it the first time around.

I will put in my two cents for a suggestion on how to preserve the memories you are building now for yourself, your children and your grandchildren.
We had very little money growing up but my Dad always managed to shoot 8MM film of birthday's holidays and vacations. It's not easy, or even fun, when you are looking through a viewfinder and everyone else is enjoying the event first hand but the pay off comes quickly and can last for several lifetimes.
I have priceless footage that my Dad took over the years. It included many firsts...my first drum, Lionel (used) trains, motorized Tinker Toy set, Lincoln Logs, Remco Whirlybird helicopter, Tonka Truck, Erector Set, Kenner Hydro Dynamic set #12 and slot car set.
I'm sure it was a chore for Dad to get out all the equipment to both take and project the films. I know first hand it was not fun looking into the light bar with three 150 watt bulbs burning into your eyes!
It's so much easier now to both shoot and instantly view your videos, we really have no excuse not to. I am lucky enough to have every major family event captured to video starting with our two sons' first day home from the hospital 21 and 28 years ago.
Video is also a great historical record and can help answer questions people may have later on as memories become cloudy.
Perhaps, surprisingly, the most enjoyable scenes to watch are just every day happenings like playing with friends or sitting around visiting.
I guess my point is for you to consider taking time to do whatever you can today to help your successors relive their memories tomorrow.
TJ

Dear KD,

 

Thank you for seeing my point! A person's memories are priceless, meaning only something to them, certainly the experience of the memory has a value that is often irretrievable but we do what we can to replicate it or go on longing to well into adulthood.

 

Make no mistake, some of us have grown up a great deal since then, but some of us can go back very easily into those Howdy Doody days and revel in those simpler times and say "I wish I was a kid again". Who can forget Clarabelle the Clown's sad Final Farewell of "Bye Kids" that was poignant and memorable!

 

Hard to believe I was only 3 at the time! It would be 7 years until those American Flyer Trains raced around the track.

 

Ah! Those years had some fond memories didn't they?

 

Mike

For decades I treasured a small B&W Kodak photo I had of me at age three, watching my Dad's train set, which he had set up on the living room floor in our home in 1952.  

 

Several years ago I did research based on the photo.  The train was a pre-war, wind up Marx loco with two cars and a caboose.  I identified what model each one was.  In 2009, I gradually accumulated them one by one at swap meets and from e-bay: the loco (several actually, which I repaired and repainted until i had one perfect one), the correct tinplate caboose in near brad new condition, and the tinplate dumping car in in very good condition, along with all the track in the photo.  But I just could not find the final car in the photo - a tinplate, two-axle B&O boxcar.  I waited over a year, wondering if I would ever complete the train, and then one day on e-bay there it was - and in excellent condition, too.  Reserve of $250.  

 

I placed a bid for $2,500.  Now,I knew, with the way that e-bay auctions are run, that  I would not pay that price unless there was at least one other bid close to that.

 

I got it for $285.  But I really would have paid that for the memories.  I'm looking at the train now, on the bookcase here in my study, along with that photo.  So I understand how some other people can bid "whatever it takes" when they are buying a memory.

What an interesting thread!  I myself come down on the sentimental side, I guess.  I once paid three times the "book value" for a Marx engine simply because it was one I had had as a kid.  But Lee - I hope I never get into a bidding war with you! 

Thanx, Terry. 

 

Actually, the lamp was undoubtedly added to my room 'decor' because I had already become obsessed with trains.  Lots of early memory stories re the same, but suffice it to say it was the annual Christmas tree seting-up, bringing Dad's 366W set down from the attic (stored in an old Electrolux vacuum cleaner box) that started it all.  And he received his set in 1934 from his parents when he was a 'kid' of 26!!  I still have it, too!

 

BTW, our (w/wife) visit to YOUR layout with Jack a few years ago inspired me in several ways in the building of our layout...also good memories!  Looking forward to Jack's return to the LHS following his surgery!

 

Best regards,

KD

Thanks KD!
Please visit again anytime.
Hey, it looks like you too should be looking for an empty box to buy.....

bringing Dad's 366W set down from the attic (stored in an old Electrolux vacuum cleaner box)


TJ

 

Mike, thanks for bringing back a warm memory. One night my wife told me of the one Christmas present her Grandfather gave her not long before he passed away. It was a wind up monkey. It was the one and only thing he ever gave her. I doubt it cost a dollar at the time. It wasn't that he was stingy. As a young boy his family was new to the country and very poor. He truly didn't understand the giving of presents. A few years later I found the same type of mechanical monkey just like the one her Grandfather gave her. I would have paid anything for it. I gave it to her the next Christmas. She still talks about it. It sits in the living room with some of her doll collection. Again, thanks Mike. Don