THE LCS THREAD - Post LCS Questions, Info and Updates HERE

here are some specific to the iPad app and the layout sketching feature.

 

obviously, i don't have the WiFi module yet, but i have been fooling around with the layout sketching feature.  it is unclear to me how to get it to expand beyond one page.  does it?  does it expand only horizontally or will it expand vertically, too?  is there a size limitation to the sketching feature?  ideally, i would like to be able to draw my entire layout.  is that feasible?

 

ah, discovered that once i saved a sketch, i had another page available to the right (horizontal).  what about vertical??

My wish list/feedback so far:

1) It would be nice if there was a way to select your layout or sections of track so you could move them as one piece. I had to restart my layout a couple of times because I underestimated the placement of some pieces. A possible solution would be a two finger double tap to select a set of connected pieces and using a two finger movement to reposition them.

2) How will accessories be handled? I'm thinking of those which have their own dedicated controllers such as the AEC Reactor and Gantry crane. 

3) Will there be any ability to run MTH DCS locomotives? I imagine this would be a REALLY low priority but would be nice for those of us who have both brands. 

4) Not entirely LCS related but it would be nice if there were a fill in the blank/drop down menu TurboTax type of webpage where new users unfamiliar with digital trains could input what we have/plan to buy and get a single list of what equipment we'll need to convert from conventional to digital. It can be confusing figuring out exactly what gear you need to run all your trains, switches and accessories. 

5) Separate track piece icons for uncoupling and operating tracks. 

The answer to 3 will be conventional only. So far MTH has only allowed one commercial app to be built that has access to the DCS commands.

"It would be nice if there was a way to select your layout or sections of track so you could move them as one piece."

 

agree with this!

 

how big is your layout sketch SeattleSUP?

My layout is 5x10. Currently I have 4 remote switches, 2 uncoupling tracks, 2 operating tracks. Expanding it to 8 switches soon with 1-2 additional uncoupling tracks. It's pretty compact but with the LCS app as is you need to be pretty mindful of where you place things if you want it to end up centered on your screen. SCARM has a feature where you can double click and it will highlight all connected sections of tracks so you can move them as one piece. Very handy. 

Thanks Rich for the "LCS thread"!

 

Forrest, some thoughts to your comments:

You can only scroll horizontally.   The concept we have is to create "Action Centers" that represent areas of the layout being controlled, not necessarily the entire layout.  We have seen folks capture their entire layout on one screen view; and those layouts typically were 12 x 16 at most. 

 

We are considering pan and zoom functionality, but just not right now.  The focus in our development group is to get you the WiFi hardware and add accessory controls.  The awesome video Rudy just released, gives a glimpse into the method we are planning to control accessories.  When we finish the Lionel AMC/ARC products (Crane, Log Loader, Culvert loader/unloader) we will add more generic controls for ElectricRR aftermarket accessory upgrades. 

 

You won't be successful to use the LCS app as a track planning tool, the LCS design is not 0-36 or any other scale.  If you compare a design that creates a fixed geometry, such as a reversing loop in LCS; the count of track segments in LCS won't match what Fastrack actually requires.  In order to give the user as much presentation on the limited real estate we created our own scale in the LCS app.

 

I realize editing the track plan in LCS could be improved, we will listen to feedback from the forumites and folks in our test group, and make improvements.  The best advice I can give for the current editor is - it can be fun, and it is a one time event!  Enjoy the process.

 

Thanks to all for the feedback and questions, more videos will be forthcoming to help explain how to get the most from the LCS app; and how it ties into the Lionel ecosystem.  Our layout related products are coming along nicely and will enhance your train running experience!

 

At 3:45 on the LionelEngineering LCS Intro Video the slide says:

 

Run it from:

  iPad LCS App

  Lionel Remotes

  3rd party Apps

 

Rudy says "New products coming from 3rd party developers"

 

• Does this mean Lionel is going to open up the Legacy spec to others?
• What and when might we see from 3rd parties?

 

 

The possibilities seem they could be unlimited.  Could it be possible to transfer your layout from previously drawn plans from other vendors like RR Track, or other graphical software.

Will you be limited to only Lionel track and switches.  What is the size limitation. What is the layer limitations.  Is the WIFI module available?  I would assume it will have a kill switch.  Is there a tutorial available?  Probably way too soon to know the answers.

Buzz

"Forrest, some thoughts to your comments"

 

thanks, jon.  all very exciting.

Jon, another quick question. Can the new lcs control boxes be used in a modular environment like the new lionel modular set up at the shows. Assuming one uses the proper connectors at both modular table ends. My thought is the boxes would be mounted under the table for switch and or accs. Control on any given module. Then home layouts could be built to be moved so as to not have to lose what one has invested in time and construction. Not to mention track and various lcs components. I plan to design my layout to have the look and portability just like tw designs builds. I love how there layouts look. Roger is top notch down there in dallas! Thanks!

I believe so.   The modules plug together, no screw terminals or remembering what color wire is what!  And you could cut the cable between the plugs as long as you keep the cable wires properly connected.

 

The LCS module interconnect (PDI bus) has: 9VDC @ 1.5A, Common, Serial TX, Serial RX, Allocate signal.  The RX/TX baud rate is 115k.  The 9VDC power supply can be augmented in long chains of LCS modules on larger layouts.  (once you have about ~25 modules, in addition to ~25 IR sensors you need to have more juice!). 

 

 

 

 

 

Jon

 

This is awful (grin).  I am a prewar guy!  Now it looks as though I am going to be pulled into the 21st Century.  This looks like awesome stuff.  My HO club was DCC but using the switches from the handhelds was too difficult so we used conventional toggle switches.  This looks like a winner.  Well done!  I look forward to seeing a Demo at York

 

Al Galli

From the open house where the LCS was demo'd...

 

 

Jon:

 

If you're crunched for resources you should look into doing an internship or co-op with Computer Science department at your local university. I've done this with several small companies and it's a win-win for both parties. You get an affordable (or even free!) resource and the students get valuable job experience that will make them stand out to employers come graduation time. Students - at least the smart ones - are clamoring for internships these days. 

Thanks jon, very usefull info. How far along are the lcs boxes? Amc2 asc2 ect. Are they in production and planed for sale by middle of next year. If this info is company secretive until launch I understand. Thanks again! I used to get frustrated when I could not afford the latest engine or control pieces. Now I am glad I had to wait. Looks as though my train money will be spent on new lcs/legacy components. Can't wait to get these new toys!

The IR sensor track is in production, delivery is hard to call, but I hope within a couple of months.  Don't quote me on that - I don't track production that closely, but I am hopeful...

 

The WiFi is about to enter production.  The ASC2 right behind it.  The AMC2 - I am still designing this one, but I hope to have a design ready by year end.

 

The most important is the WiFi module, IMHO; as the LCS app needs the module.  I am working on an early access program to get a limited supply of WiFi modules available.  More on how to participate within the next 30 days...

Jon, if we have things like fasttrack tmcc switches and the gantry crane with tmcc or any lionel accsessory with tmcc built in. These do not need the asc2 and amc2 correct? They already communicate with the legacy base right. Thew new control boxes basically handle the same functions as there icc counterparts right.motor control, switch control,ect. Just with new terminals. As for the dat and com cables they have been replace correct. now the boxes will use the wifi signal to communicate with the legacy base am I right on this one?

Lionelzwl2012, you basically have it correct in your understanding.  There are some exceptions though, which I will try and explain. 

 

The original BPC and ASC, etc, have very complicated commands (by button presses) from the cab1, which was all that existed when those products were designed.  The Legacy system takes a different approach to control, for example you can get throttle commands on ACC IDs. 

 

As such, the LCS iPad app will not send the correct command sequences to the BPC, ASC, etc.  With the Serial interface (SER2) you will still be able to use the older tech with the cabs, but the iPad may not support them directly.

 

This is why we had to create the ASC2, BPC2, TPC2, AMC2, etc.  The newer Legacy commands make for a nicer user experience, and the LCS iPad will leverage this new capability.  An exception is the switches (TMCC capable); these use a simplified command sequence and are system wide compatible.  

 

I realize that some folks may be quite unhappy that some of the older ICC controls boxes won't be supported under LCS.   The problem goes quite deep, even the ICC controls boxes don't have consistency!  Pick an older BPC (pre Lionel) and the BPC of current design, and they operate differently.  With time, we may be able to support them by configuration on the LCS iPad app.  For now, some limits are going to exist.

 

If I understood Jon correctly at York last year, Legacy commands cannot be sent through the comm port of the base and the chip that supports it. Perhaps the 3rd party apps will be TMCC only or DCC

I actually thought the DCC mention was intersint. I know the AF Legacy engines support DCC, but so far the O-Gauge engines do not

SER2:  A module that converts the PDI bus to RX/TX DB9 @ 9600 baud

- Current booster to enhance the Legacy base output drive levels

- Supports multiple SER2 boards on the PDI bus => multiple DB9's!

- Going forward our system will be more open!

 

The LCS system does not require a Legacy base to operate.  A possible configuration: iPad, WiFi Module, ASC2 module.  Thus a DCC or conventional only layout can leverage switch control with the aforementioned modules, operating from the iPad or toggle switches in a control panel relationship.

After getting to see the LCS at the open house, I am more excited than before.  IMO this will open up some modern tech with our Lionel trains.  Personally I can't wait to start playing with it an seeing how it expands.

 

The sensor tracks for me are rather exciting.  I can see IDing trains as they pass and assigning a sequence of events depending on what train passes.  And as we found out at York, they are directionally sensitive so the sequence could be different depending on the direction of travel.  I'm not sure if this is what is the pipe line but I don't see why things like this couldn't be done with the technology.

 

A truly exciting time to be in the hobby for sure!

Amen marty! I also wonder if in the futcher

Sorry the app on my phone went squirly on me. What I was trying to say was. Maybe on down the line one can load up his buddy's track lcs ipad diagram onto his ipad for control of his layout when visiting and running trains. Or for guys at the club who wish to bring there ipad. assuming all the layouts are set up for the wifi lcs componets. Just a thought.

Drat I picked up a ASC last trip I did to the States. I have not got it out of the box yet!

 

 

 

Keep up all your hard work jon! Lionel hasn't had a man like you since frank p. in the early 50's. I for one want to thank you for all your hard work and love of making our lionel's somthing to be proud to run and show off to our friends and relatives. 50's smifty's the hay day of lionel trains has only just begun!! Quick get dr.zw back to his lab chief o'hara we need more wiz bang stuff!

Thanks Lionelzwl2012, I appreciate your kind words.  I must admit I am a bit challenged by Scrapiron's request of:

 

>>5) More swinging horns and whistling bells

 

I sent the team into deep thought on this one.  Good news! We feel we can deliver the feature by year end

Swinging horns!  I thought MTH had shown a prototype of that in the spring.

"Swinging horns!"

 

I'm sure Lionel is working on Tommy Dorsey Sounds 1.0 .  Very retro.

"More swinging horns and whistling bells"

 

and you wonder how he managed to put 765 on the ground?

I'm 42, just got back into trains this year after a 25 year hiatus and the iPad app is very appealing to me. For starters, it will make it much easier for my children to run the trains. It may not appeal to you but keep in mind people with advanced layouts are a ***REALLY*** small audience. Appealing to such a small audience isn't going to do much for Lionel in the long run. If Lionel wants to survive they need to appeal to a new generation which is something they haven't been doing a very good job of in recent years. 

I'm older than 42,  but it's clear that even now almost everyone has a smart phone,

tablets are not far behind in number, and in the future, >90% of people will be carrying around some sort of wi-fi, bluetooth or whatever enabled smart device.  It would be foolish for Lionel or MTH to ignore that reality.  Even if we older geezers aren't interested.  We're short timers here.

I believe Elliot has 2 tablets...the original 10 commandments are on them from when Moses asked him to hold them while he got a coffee ..( a commentary on Elliot's age)

"Forrest, that's what must have happened with the #765.

I tried to "blow" the bell and swing the whistle.

I didn't pay attention to the matter of the wheels needing to stay on the rails."

 

i hear ya!

 

i also hear ya about vision line features.  i love the swinging bell and whistle steam on my vision line hudson.  wasn't there some noise coming out of york about new vision line stuff coming late this year or early next?  or am i fabricating that?  i am sure no one can say anything if this is true.

from jon earlier in this thread...

 

"The concept we have is to create "Action Centers" that represent areas of the layout being controlled, not necessarily the entire layout.  We have seen folks capture their entire layout on one screen view; and those layouts typically were 12 x 16 at most. "

 

clearly, this technology is not currently targeted to control a large layout from a single iPad.

Now all they need to do is put a micro wireless HD camera in the cab of locomotives so you can do your own cab rides from the safety of your iPad.  Actually I think it would cool if  Amtrak would do that for passengers.

Folks, an upcoming Vision Line loco is where I am spending 90% of my time right now.  Even "Scrapiron Scher" is going to be *very* impressed with the features.  Now back to the LCS discussion....

Oh man, I hope it's Pennsy.  Now back to LCS.