The Power of This Forum

AmeenTrainGuy posted:

Before I became a member I would always search this forum for modeling ideas. I am certain that there are many people who have not yet joined this forum who are always visiting this forum and reading all the great threads we have. 

I did not know one can visit the Forum and read it's threads without being a member. I guess it's part of the world wide Internet. There are still many valuable other member benefits and the cost is nominal.

👍 100% agree, great place for information, suggestions and recommendations. 

Good observation Arnold.  My kids use something called "Yelp".  They can rate businesses they use with pros and cons, on the web.  

Of course if the nice approach doesn't work, one can always rely on a couple of large gentleman to persuade the retailer.  

You have posted this topic twice. Nick

I credit this forum, Facebook, and a call to Lionel for getting me out of a 129.00 jam two weeks ago.   So powerful are these things that the retailer called and let me know they were having me removed from OGR and Facebook because I told people what they were doing. 

Jim 

rockstars1989 posted:

You have posted this topic twice. Nick

That was a clumsy mistake on my part, and I apologize for it. Not sure what to do to correct it. I recently switched smart phones and struggled with technological things.  I would much prefer for there to be one post on this topic.

Welcome, however I cannot agree with your motivation technique. There’s always two sides to every story. Too many times things are posted prematurely and start extremely negative discussions solving nothing. 

carsntrains posted:

I credit this forum, Facebook, and a call to Lionel for getting me out of a 129.00 jam two weeks ago.   So powerful are these things that the retailer called and let me know they were having me removed from OGR and Facebook because I told people what they were doing. 

Jim 

You want to run that by me one more time ?   How can someone have you removed from OGR and Facebook ?   Only you can do that.  And might I add, removing one's self from Facebook is next to impossible.

I have been coming to this site from almost it's first year and I'm convinced that it has been the single most influential force driving the direction of O gauge hobby. I say that not only about the market place in general  but how we treat each other on the net.  

   The approach to this, spot on. If a dealer knows the forum already (most do, even if only from lurking) they know know the risk of a bad rep. developing, even if nothing is ever posted directly about them.

    OGRF can be read FULLY by anyone and I hope that never changes. The "other place" (s) require joining to see photos, etc.. Only the text is available to lurkers.  Non-member lurkers here cannot see into your profile, etc., they must join. 

   I never cared for that "hold out" mentality on content, or I'd have joined a Yahoo group a loooong time ago too. They can remain "exclusive", heck, I will help by never joining     Because there ARE idiots out there, joining to post is a decent enough deterent to them. Limiting reading is just plain rude and selfish IMO, costs can be managed other ways.

I understand the " exclusive" concept VERY well. I catered to it in other areas of life to make a living at times at places you were NOT getting into without your Armani on.  But I also detest it other times.

   Trains aren't a five star hotel or dining experience to easily be ruined by idiocy. I like it open to the public rich or poor, private or socialites, smart or less so, oinery or nice, etc etc   

I just want everyone anywhere to enjoy themselves every chance they get. 

I had been back into the hobby for almost twenty years before starting to lurk on the OGR Forum  about two years ago. Eventually I took the plunge and joined because the Forum was quickly educating me about O gauge trains and I wanted to contribute by posting and joining in the discussions. The Forum has led me to form new friendships while directing me to businesses where I have become a customer for model trains, services and supplies. And it has immensely increased my enjoyment of the hobby. As a retiree, it has become a pastime (or maybe an obsession) to which I devote many hours. It may also have cost me some money by virtue of the purchases it has induced me to make...

MELGAR

Welcome, however I cannot agree with your motivation technique. There’s always two sides to every story. Too many times things are posted prematurely and start extremely negative discussions solving nothing. 

Negative posts about people and retail establishments are not allowed here for that very reason.
Most folks who visit this board are aware of this rule. So I am not certain what weight telling someone that you belong to the board would have.

I joined the forum, OGR magazine and digital subscription last year when I dove back into my O gauge experience after a hiatus of 10 years and am having the time of my life.

I was diagnosed with esophageal cancer Jan 13th (friday) 2017, I was going to pack all of my stuff up for sale, started reading the forum, got out my old magazine's and thought "I have great trains, which I can't afford to not play with, "  joined the forum,  built a new layout and have never looked back.

While doing chemo, radiation,  and hospital time I read the forum and the digital library,  it helped me through the most depressing time in my life and along with prayer and faith in God,  lifting  my hopes and dreams.

I am cancer free a year later and enjoy this forum , OGR magazine and playing with trains.

It's a great hobby.

C.W., I agree with you. In my original post, I emphasized the positive:  our Forum membership makes each of us a good source of referrals to a dealer, store, etc, and to not mske negstive comments about them.

Arnold

While having the forum behind you on a legitimate issue, blackmail is never the best way to resolve a problem.  I suspect the total membership may be in the high  thousands while the active membership in the low thousands.  I also suspect many folks won't take too kindly to being threatened that "I'll run to the OGR forum" mentality.  And as mentioned above, so many of these issues are one sided that most will be deleted per the TOS.

I find most of the posts that are less knee jerk and well written stay to get more helpful replies to solve an issue.  And most if not all that mention a vendor by name will be deleted.

Jushavnfun posted:

I joined the forum, OGR magazine and digital subscription last year when I dove back into my O gauge experience after a hiatus of 10 years and am having the time of my life.

I was diagnosed with esophageal cancer Jan 13th (friday) 2017, I was going to pack all of my stuff up for sale, started reading the forum, got out my old magazine's and thought "I have great trains, which I can't afford to not play with, "  joined the forum,  built a new layout and have never looked back.

While doing chemo, radiation,  and hospital time I read the forum and the digital library,  it helped me through the most depressing time in my life and along with prayer and faith in God,  lifting  my hopes and dreams.

I am cancer free a year later and enjoy this forum , OGR magazine and playing with trains.

It's a great hobby.

What an inspiring, positive testimonial!

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

It just occurred to me as a new member of this Forum how tremendously helpful it is to the hobbyist in many different ways.

Some of these ways are obvious : great place to get technical information; great way to make friends; great place to buy and sell trains; another great way to express one's creativity.

Some ways are not so obvious, one of which inspired this post. Let's say you bought a train from someone and it is defective. One way to motivate the seller to replace or fix the defective train is to nicely mention that you belong to an On Line Forum and network with many, at least hundreds and maybe thousands or tens of thousands, of O Gauge model train enthusiasts in the US, Canada, The United Kingdom, Finland and other countries.

This won't work every time, but if I was the seller and heard that remark, and I wanted more business, I would move heaven and earth to help solve the problem with your train.

This idea probably occurred to me because I belong to a business networking group known as BNI (Business Network International) in which business owners make referrals to others that they believe are honest and provide good service and/or products. 

A potential good source of business for  anyone in business is a personal referral.

A word of caution. I would only make the above remark in a nice way, hinting that you might be a good source of referrals because of your Forum contacts. I would not use this in a negative way by saying or hinting that you will tell your contacts how bad a train dealer he/she is. The dealer may also be an innocent victim because the cause of the defect might be someone else like the manufacturer, UPS, etc.

I remember a great collector of Prewar Standard Gauge trains (I think it was Frank Petruzzi), said on the McComas & Tuoy 6 video set, words to the effect of he who is alone in trains loses, and he who has train buddies wins. 

I would love to hear what you all think about this subject,

Arnold

That's what the eBay reputation system is for - and makes eBay is good place to buy and sell.

Attempting to re-create that in-forum here won't work - for all sorts or reasons.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

C.W., I agree with you. In my original post, I emphasized the positive:  our Forum membership makes each of us a good source of referrals to a dealer, store, etc, and to not mske negstive comments about them.

Arnold

Surely you are wise enough to know that not "each of us ... a good source", etc. Any grouping which has no admission standards has all sorts of people. But do adhere to the no bad comments rule. You will meet a lot of fine people on the Forum, but there are others also.

Gerry

Have been an OGR subscriber and a member of this forum for a number of years. It has been and continues to be an excellent information resource and a fun experience sharing ideas and opinion with some really great people. If you are looking for just about anything O gauge related its all here. It is a free forum open to all but if it is to last, I urge all forum members to subscribe to OGR magazine. What you see here costs thousands of dollars to design, maintain and host.  I've decided to do a small part to keep it going

Belonging to a large organization is helpful. I own a boat and belong to the Boat Owners Association of America or BOAT US. If you are having an issue with your boat and the manufacturer is giving you a hard time just mention that you will notify BOAT US and they become very helpful to resolve your issue. It worked for me.

Jim D.

Jim D posted:

Belonging to a large organization is helpful. I own a boat and belong to the Boat Owners Association of America or BOAT US. If you are having an issue with your boat and the manufacturer is giving you a hard time just mention that you will notify BOAT US and they become very helpful to resolve your issue. It worked for me.

Jim D.

No doubt, Jim, that such a remark would often work, but what some members are saying, and I tend to agree with them, is that one can simply tell the dealer or store owner, I am an enthusiastic member of the OGRF, which has tthousands of members worldwide, and if you can help me, I would be inclined to recommend you to others.

The above is totally positive. The dealer or store owner might also think, in his her own head, of the consequences if he does not do his best to have a satisfied customer.

Dan Padova posted:

carsntrains posted:

I credit this forum, Facebook, and a call to Lionel for getting me out of a 129.00 jam two weeks ago.   So powerful are these things that the retailer called and let me know they were having me removed from OGR and Facebook because I told people what they were doing. 

Jim 

You want to run that by me one more time ?   How can someone have you removed from OGR and Facebook ?   Only you can do that.  And might I add, removing one's self from Facebook is next to impossible.

Dan I cant repeat what else I was "told".   That being said......

The good things here outweigh the bad by a long shot. Untold wealth of  knowledge, friendly people willing to help, enough tech stuff to boggle the mind.  Some really great photography and killer videos. 

Jim

Dan Padova posted:

carsntrains posted:

I credit this forum, Facebook, and a call to Lionel for getting me out of a 129.00 jam two weeks ago.   So powerful are these things that the retailer called and let me know they were having me removed from OGR and Facebook because I told people what they were doing. 

Jim 

You want to run that by me one more time ?   How can someone have you removed from OGR and Facebook ?   Only you can do that.  And might I add, removing one's self from Facebook is next to impossible.

That's why I never have or will join Facebook, twitter, etc. Nothing but trouble comes from these social media giants.

RSJB18 posted:

Dan Padova posted:

carsntrains posted:

I credit this forum, Facebook, and a call to Lionel for getting me out of a 129.00 jam two weeks ago.   So powerful are these things that the retailer called and let me know they were having me removed from OGR and Facebook because I told people what they were doing. 

Jim 

You want to run that by me one more time ?   How can someone have you removed from OGR and Facebook ?   Only you can do that.  And might I add, removing one's self from Facebook is next to impossible.

That's why I never have or will join Facebook, twitter, etc. Nothing but trouble comes from these social media giants.

Amen brother...  

Great thread Arnold. I joined in 2016 after lurking around for a while. Mostly because every google search I did came up with several OGR threads where I found the answers I needed. I joined to help support the site and all of the great sponsors. Since joining I've "met" a bunch of great guys and gals who share my passion for this great hobby.
Credit the web-masters for keeping things civil around here. Many threads can get off topic and downright nasty if they were not monitored. 

Bob

And when one gets too old and lame for layout work/ train running the Forum still provides the pleasure of  viewing  awesome photos and studying the work of innovators and superb technicians.  Even allowed to criticize the manufacturers once in awhile if one is fair and factual .  The OGR Forum has been an educational force and blessing for me since February 2001 and before that the Magazine.

Gentlemen,

   I agree with MartyE, and I really appreciate the members on the OGR.  We have some very knowledgable people here that have no problem helping other members, especially those getting started in DCS and Legacy.  

Meeting new and different people is one of the great advantages of the OGR also.  Members like WilleyGee, Barry, GGG, Guns, MartyE and MartyF and others willingly share their knowledge here on the OGR, it makes the OGR a very special forum.

We also have a fine Veterans contingency headed up by Mike G, who makes other old Military Veterans like myself, proud to participate here on the OGR.  IMO the OGR is the best forum on the Net and I often say just that in my posts.  

I like to tease and have fun with the other members, along with passing along a little knowledge and experience where our hobby is concerned.  I have also learned a great deal about the newer more modern DCS and Legacy systems here, and I am grateful to have a place to share my hobby interest.  

Unfortunately we have lost some real good members thru the years, that now run their Trains on Gods great layout, I got to say I miss guys like Dale badly, and I hope God has granted them every dream they every dreamt.

IMO no better forum exists than the OGR!

PCRR/Dave

I never forget we are able to live free and participate in our hobby because other Veterans payed the ultimate price for us to do so.    

For those who do not know the man running his O Gauge Train in the picture below, he is my Fathers good friend Audie Murphy and my US Army Mentor.

This forum is a great source of information and meeting great people.  

But, I wasn't aware that merely mentioning the OGR forum had all the power described in this thread.  

I'll need to be more careful in the future.

TedW posted:

RSJB18 posted:

Dan Padova posted:

carsntrains posted:

I credit this forum, Facebook, and a call to Lionel for getting me out of a 129.00 jam two weeks ago.   So powerful are these things that the retailer called and let me know they were having me removed from OGR and Facebook because I told people what they were doing. 

Jim 

You want to run that by me one more time ?   How can someone have you removed from OGR and Facebook ?   Only you can do that.  And might I add, removing one's self from Facebook is next to impossible.

That's why I never have or will join Facebook, twitter, etc. Nothing but trouble comes from these social media giants.

Amen brother...  

/agreed

Carsntrains

I was in retail over 50 years and you do whatever it takes to keep customers HAPPY. They can shop anywhere anytime.

I remember that incident some dealers have thin skin I guess.  You are the customer and without your support dealers go out of business  any dealer that gives me attitude loses my business.  If my retail  buying circle gets smaller so be it,  there are always train shows.

Jim D posted:

Belonging to a large organization is helpful. I own a boat and belong to the Boat Owners Association of America or BOAT US. If you are having an issue with your boat and the manufacturer is giving you a hard time just mention that you will notify BOAT US and they become very helpful to resolve your issue. It worked for me.

Jim D.

Less beer and stop reading Barry's DCS Guide while you're on the water.

Gerry

l have only mentioned membership in this forum, when responding to another members for sale trade ad.

Membership to the OGR Forum and $5.00 will buy a cup of coffee around here...

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I did not know one can visit the Forum and read it's threads without being a member. I guess it's part of the world wide Internet.

Forum topics and replies frequently appear at the top of search engine results soon after they are posted, leading people here for the information they are seeking on model railroading. May not reflect well on the sponsor or group if they catch us squabbling over such things as Lionel vs. MTH, traditional vs. scale, Pullmor vs. can motors, conventional vs. Legacy/DCS or a perceived affront by a buyer or seller.

What, me worry?

carsntrains posted:

...the retailer called and let me know they were having me removed from OGR and Facebook because I told people what they were doing.

ABSOLUTE, TOTAL BULLS***. No OGR client has EVER told us to remove a member from this forum. Even if they did, we would not do it.

The very fact that you posted this here is evidence that you have not been “removed” from this forum.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Gentlemen,

   I agree with MartyE, and I really appreciate the members on the OGR.  We have some very knowledgable people here that have no problem helping other members, especially those getting started in DCS and Legacy.  

Meeting new and different people is one of the great advantages of the OGR also.  Members like WilleyGee, Barry, GGG, Guns, MartyE and MartyF and others willingly share their knowledge here on the OGR, it makes the OGR a very special forum.

We also have a fine Veterans contingency headed up by Mike G, who makes other old Military Veterans like myself, proud to participate here on the OGR.  IMO the OGR is the best forum on the Net and I often say just that in my posts.  

I like to tease and have fun with the other members, along with passing along a little knowledge and experience where our hobby is concerned.  I have also learned a great deal about the newer more modern DCS and Legacy systems here, and I am grateful to have a place to share my hobby interest.  

Unfortunately we have lost some real good members thru the years, that now run their Trains on Gods great layout, I got to say I miss guys like Dale badly, and I hope God has granted them every dream they every dreamt.

IMO no better forum exists than the OGR!

PCRR/Dave

I never forget we are able to live free and participate in our hobby because other Veterans payed the ultimate price for us to do so.    

For those who do not know the man running his O Gauge Train in the picture below, he is my Fathers good friend Audie Murphy and my US Army Mentor.

 

 

Great story Dave and very much the truth! I know most know but for those who don't Audie Murphy was a Medal of Honor Man! He is truly a hero!

OGR Webmaster posted:

carsntrains posted:

...the retailer called and let me know they were having me removed from OGR and Facebook because I told people what they were doing.

ABSOLUTE, TOTAL BULLS***. No OGR client has EVER told us to remove a member from this forum. Even if they did, we would not do it.

The very fact that you posted this here is evidence that you have not been “removed” from this forum.

Am I to take that as what THEY told me was TOTAL BS??  I would agree 100%.   

Now they have on their website that "they are dealers for all major brands, so all product on their site is covered by the applicable factory warranty"   What that means is if you buy something from them.  And its broken or packaged wrong, that it is up to the factory to replace or repair it.   If they cant.  You own it.    And that too is what they told me when  Lionel couldn't replace what I had bought because it was sold at at Lionel.   

    I was lucky it was just a 129.00 item. And eventually they agreed to send my money back.   After all of the abuse they gave me I really wish I could warn all of OGR about their practices.   What if it had been a 1000.00 engine?  I will leave them nameless.  If you would like the full story let me know. 

Jim 

  I'd bet Rich felt the statement has an unclear, and almost accusational tone towards the ogrf. It came across than way to me too, though I thought it was not meant to do that exactly. I think he simply wishes put any suspicions to the accuracy of the alleged statement by the retailer to rest NOW.

  Many of us have private contact outside the forum as well. Good news and bad makes headway like that as well too. Maybe not with the emphasis of directly posting, but it gets around, and lets the ogrf management off any legal hook. Liable or not (Not! ), who likes to go to court?  And any court dates concerning some liability crap by some settlement chaser won't be in small claims either.

My mail is my profile for lots of reasons. If it is an issue for folks to list it, their loss   (start a seperate, free, throwaway mail account. It need not match your sign up account and blocking any pita or spam not hard at all, nor has that happened to me).

  I've heard similar stories, so have others. Most with "less detail" though. Never would have without other forum members offering more specifics..... in private    

Similarly,   I have a "almost never used" phone from a while back. I couldn't test it before buying, nor was it broken. It works for others, just not for me. Neither store nor manufacturer has satisfied my complaints made within hours of purchase. As an established customer it is automatically considered an upgrade despite being a downgrade from the one "wrecked". I would have even accepted the lowest cost "dumb phone" and told them so. A new customer has a "no questions asked, money back guarantee" from franchise, or franchise store. AND as it turns out, the original is 100% ok, bad cord (but the store tech said it was the phone; "you need a new one")  There will be a small claims date, my first ever. I'll likely lose too, but it seems it will happen. I had only once experienced such awful apathy from a large public company before about a purchase, just small time idiots.

  Welcome to the modern buisness world, heads up, knee boots on, buyer beware. Honor is dead in many boardrooms

Marty,  A threat to contact the BBB was blackmail too? Yelp should be illegal? The courts disagree or the BBB and the like, simply wouldn't exist. (don't think the BBB has never been to court to justify what they do)

   I'd call it a mercy, a second chance to think things out a bit and maybe settle out of court.  I don't think offering to forgo your version of a problem publically, or in court, to achieve satisfaction is "blackmail" unless you are demanding far more than the original deal entailed and there is no glimmer of truth to the accusations.

Adriatic posted:

Marty,  A threat to contact the BBB was blackmail too? Yelp should be illegal? The courts disagree or the BBB and the like, simply wouldn't exist. (don't think the BBB has never been to court to justify what they do)

   I'd call it a mercy, a second chance to think things out a bit and maybe settle out of court.  I don't think offering to forgo your version of a problem publically, or in court, to achieve satisfaction is "blackmail" unless you are demanding far more than the original deal entailed and there is no glimmer of truth to the accusations.

Yep blackmail.  If your first course of action is to run here and stomp your feet then yes, blackmail or whatever you want to call it.  I would venture that 90% of the issues that are reported here were never addressed to the manufacturer or vendor before racing here to post.

Again legitimate complaints after reasonable effort to solve the issue I never have a problem with.  Going to the BBB where they will investigate and verify after a reasonable effort to solve the issue again not a problem.  Reporting to the OGR board in a well thought out and civil manor after trying or your own, again fine with that. 

 Please forgive my extensive punctuation mistakes, I can't click within the tiny bubble that has begun to accompany moving the cursor to correct things, I'm giving up on periods most peroids, from here on in, opting for all commas instead. I was far from perfect before, but at least could try....I also did not write periods twice, it added itself in.

     Without giving opportunity to have the issue solved, I think that would be some dirty BS, but not exactly blackmail, as I see blackmail as an attempt at a dishonest outcome above and beyond the intended nature of the original deal.

    And,  I think in this case, they did attempt to resolve the issue with the store, and the mfg, and they may have even pointed at each other.  The rejection was the reason for escalation.

  Too long a wait on a mfg. and your legal recourses may be lost as well, especially with electronics. I would give 48 of wait for a response, then begin stomping, and filing so the Judge wont be asking why I waited to do so. They don't seem to favor waiting, despite that they would see it settled amicably outside of the courtroom..

I think the mfg. did make it right, but it seemed the store should have been just as eager to help. If the store had no confidence in the mfg. accepting there was issue to be taken care of, there is a problem somewhere  and it strikes me as more likely to be at a suit & tie level, not the customer.... this time.

   I am well aware of the stomp and yell technique as a scam and the too hard to please folks too. The customer is NOT always right, or honest, but neither is all business 100% of the time, despite best efforts. 

   And the BBB , though I used it as an example, has lost much of its prowess and effectiveness, and doesn't have power to do anything but put a business on their own naughty list and deny a new decal anyhow. That's why I'm going to court, the BBB may come later as well if I win, but honestly I do see it as a waste of time alone. When was the last time you looked for that decal on a store window. Many companies dont even bother applying anymore. Sites like Yelp are needed imo; numbers speak for themselves; just like on the auction sites where outcome doesn't necessarily affect the feedback and that 2% bad feedback, expected to a realist.

  If your temper runs too high as a customer, you better expect to jump through more hoops to get around being falsely labeled a "stomp" scammer. 

   If you are a retailer who expects a customer to smiley or unemotional when they aren't happy, you're dreaming and belong on a line, in the field, or in a cubical, etc.

   Each case is it's own tough call too, but gagging complaints is not in the  consumers best intrests, nor do business often need an advocate or outlet to help protect them from it's customers.

The rest? "Not my house" applies. 

I hope this makes good enough sense, I cant correct much anymore.