The restoring of a 1937

  This has been discussed ad nauseum on several forums... From what I understand, the "imagine-eer" in the project originally had plans for a Santa Fe 4-6-4 that included  modifications for a "improved steam circuit, modernized boiler, low-maintenance running gear and steam-powered electric generator" (per their website).

   Plans for 130 mph test operation...on an engine of a class from a builder that was plagued with counterbalancing problems at high (75+) speeds...

 The project also called for a computerized firing system! Burning a SOLID bio fuel.

We'll see what comes of this. . . . .

 

DV

Interesting theory. Problems I see... Biocoal not readily available, more expensive than coal, and less BTU's than coal due to less volatiles...

 

 I believe this substitute kinda resembles anthracite scraps, or culm, which the Wootten firebox was designed for. Interesting to see if it would work in a normal firebox..

 

The article also mentions the engine being suitable for high speeds up to 130 MPH...

 

Dave

Yeah right. That will work. Meanwhile another 70 million lowned to a green solar company went down the drain here in Colorado today.

Has the boiler even been inspected and certified yet? 

 

These guys are going to have to do a complete overhaul of the locomotive before they start adding their wizardry.

 

From what I can see the locomotive's still sitting on a piece of disconnected track and her "makeover" is some reassembly, primer and paint. 

 

I'm all for alternative energy research and solutions, but right now this seems like another pie-in-the-sky article.

 

Rusty

Is this another one of the "losers" that get picked by the Feds that was mentioned the other night?

Yep, the exhaust steam gets blown out the stack, and the smoke gets blown up your ***

 

Whatever happened to that other miracle of modern coal-fired engineering- the American Coal Institute's ACE 3000? Last I read of that one the Chinese were going to build it.

Hmmm sounds like they have a lot of bugs to work through... maybe some day someone will create a steam engine that runs on bio fuels... It looks and sounds like a steam engine but will have the smell of bacon cheese burgers on the grill! lol

Wow, we have a few pessimists here.    If you want a somewhat more hopeful outlook on this endeavor, look up the July 2012 issue of "Trains".  Fred Frailey had a synopsis of this project on P. 13.

 

The 23-year-old owner of the nonprofit company notes that windmills are a 2000-year-old technology, yet someone strapped a generator to it to create the wind turbine.   

Abner Doble struggled to add then "modern" techonolgy to the steam auto, to improve on cars like the "Stanley", with instant start, flash boiler, etc., and the cars were very expensive.  I have never seen a Doble in a museum except for the old Harrah collection in Reno, Nevada, and never seen or heard of one auctioned or for sale.

Stanleys (and Whites, and all the other steam cars) were/are major maintenance, for their owners, and maintenance is one of the reasons all the railroads fled to diesels.  I can't visualize boiler mainenance problems as much reduced from those of the past.

There will still be boiler scaling.  Pure water?  How many cases of Aquafina to fill a

tender?

Gee, and they are stealing catalytic converters off cars on lots to sell for scrap for

the platinum.  Wonder if they'd be using catalytic converters on "green" steam?

Back to the old balloon stacks of the 1800's?

The 23-year-old owner of the nonprofit company notes that windmills are a 2000-year-old technology, yet someone strapped a generator to it to create the wind turbine. 

 

Lot happening with wind technology over the last couple of decades but electric  production costs still do not compete with fossil fuel and nuclear produced generation. When it comes down to cost per kwh, green energy has a penalty on your purse. 

 

The same problem exists with a green steam locomotive. It would be hard to compete with operating costs of existing railroad propulsion systems .

 

Doesn't seem like a project for tax dollars to support.

Pessimist?? Try Realist...

Steam technology is just as old.  Look up Hero's steam machine.  You can't compare the complexities involved with a steam machine and the simplicity of a windmill.

 

Plus, a generator has also been "strapped" to a steam turbine.  They're used in these things called power plants.

 

You have to remember it's not the act of boiling water that killed the steam locomotive, it was the maintenance.  All the moving parts that us folks are so fond of, the vibrations, the constantly changing the conditions and demand for steam all have an effect on boiler and running gear in wear and tear.

 

Then there's the dynamics involved in converting horizontal (piston in cylinder) motion into rotary motion (driving wheels.)   These parts on a steam locomotive are comparatively massive to a diesel locomotive's piston and crank enclosed in a block. 

 

Add in the fact a steam locomotive's cylinder/wheel combination also directly physically performs the locomotion. 

 

A diesel motor is removed from physically providing the locomotion by driving a generator or alternator to supply motors which share the strain of the load.

 

Steam power works well in a power plant because of predictable loads that allow turbines to run at a constant speed in a relatively stable environment, separate from the stationary boilers.  Plus, the boilers themselves are in operation that is relatively constant, not subject to the vibrations, temperature and pressure variations that a steam locomotive is.

 

As I've mentioned before, I'm all for alternative energy research and solutions, but remember, not all research creates a viable result and success is usually built on a string of failures.

 

Edison tired thousands of materials before developing a suitable filament for the light bulb.

 

Rusty

A diesel motor is removed from physically providing the locomotion by driving a generator or alternator to supply motors which share the strain of the load.

 

Not on a hydraulic drive loco...the diesel engine is hooked up to a automatic transmission...the output power is routed to the drive axles via drive shafts. Not big here in the states but very popular in Europe. I believe the last attempt here was with the Krauss-Maffei ML4000 and the Alco DH643 back in the 60's.

As an experiment, the KM's and Alco DH's weren't very successful otherwise the diesel-hydraulic would have replaced the diesel-electric.

 

The diesel-hydraulic was successful in Europe because the trains are shorter and lighter. 

 

Rusty

 

There is no way that a hydraulic drive can handle the heavy-haul requirements that electric transmission locomotives can, and do, handle. Just look at the coal train tonnages in the U.S. out of the Powder River Basin, and the tonnages that NS handles. Then there are the REAL HEAVY tonnage ore trains in South America and Australia,,,,all handled by diesel electric locomotives. Hydraulics simply can't cut the mustard in REAL heavy duty railroad service!

Most people who have any real hands-on understanding of steam locomotion--let alone a 23 year old, whom I suspect has very little--have serious doubts about the viability of this plan. Please--prove this "pessimist" wrong.

What are the qualifications or experience of those involved with this project??

How about NONE!!!!!

Exactly!

"Pessimists" indeed....

At halftime, it's Pessimists One, Inventors Zero.  We'll be back after halftime with more play-by-play, but first, here's Rusty, who has the real scoop on the repainting actually done by a group of Topekans and not the Inventors . . .