The sad story of the pretty trolley with the three clangs (MTH-PS1) - FIXED

Maybe save some money:  Buy a used PS2 PCC online or elsewhere and just switch bodies.  Should be a one-for-one replacement and fit.

I don't know how to fix it but can tell you it has a multi-stage QSI circuit board set-up. Maybe you can see which board failed and replace it with a 6 amp bridge rectifier, you only get one direction this way, no nuetral. Somebody else may know how to add direction control for not much money.

I recognize the QSI circuit board label from the Williams Crown Edition engines.

Lee F.

The chip is very easy to reset using MTH's ORIGINAL PROTO-SOUND RESET KIT  (item number 50-1023)  I have used this set on four or five engines with good success.  The kit costs less than $30 and comes with a reset chip, chip remover and a new battery.  Based on how your friend uses the engine, I would suggest replacing the battery with a BCR (Battery Component Replacement) from J&W Electronics telephone number 717 417 2820.  The BCR is not a battery but a circuit that requires that 10 to 12 volts be applied for one minute before trying to run the engine.

Good luck and happy railroading,

Don

Did you replace the battery? If I remember right the voltage can be okay but the old battery does not have enough power to get the circuit going once you start it. I also agree with Don install a BCR.

franktrain

Don nailed this and it is the one symptom the owner can fix all on his own.  MTH still makes this kit.  The white battery is the older NICAD, so I am sure it is dead despite having a high no load voltage.  Put a light bulb on it and measure voltage.  G

Many Thanks for the input guys. I think I need to explore the possibility that the chip can maybe be reset. I measured the battery voltage with a load but I may want to triple-check it. With all these PS1 items showing up I should perhaps get my own reset kit. I'm not looking for any more PS1 stuff but some of them are finding me!

After we tried reset-18 on this trolley, the interior lights flashed quickly about 12 times. What does that mean?

I think a BCR is not entirely user-friendly for casual users because it requires special operating instructions (charge in neutral before operating). It's not my trolley; I'm trying to fix it for a possibly elderly gent who I don't know personally, who may not be a "serious" hobbyist.

Having replaced the battery with a BCR for three or four elderly people, I could not disagree more.  Your description of your friend in your original post mentioned he was a casual runner.  The problem with the battery in Proto  one engines is that about 10 volts is required to start charging the battery.  Most people will run their engines at a moderate speed which is done at 7 to 9 volts.  Therefore even if he runs the engine every day, the battery will not be charging.  MTH's manual states to leave the engine on the track at 10 to 12 volts for 16 HOURS to get a full charge on the battery.  I do not know many full time hobbiest that ensure this happens on a regular basis.

With the BCR, all the user needs to remember is to apply 10 to 12 volts to the track for one minute (60 seconds) and then run the engine like he always has.  One gentleman who had problems running his Proto 1 engines because of weak battery (I had to do two resets on his chip before I convinced him to spring for the BCR) was 79 years old when I installed the BCR and he had no more problems running the engine.  The BCR will hold its charge for several hours so the start up requirement only needs to be done at the start of a running session.

So for less that $60 (even less if you share the cost of the reset chip with him allowing you to keep the chip for future use)and very little labor, he can have a nice engine with the sounds he enjoys and not have to worry with it again.

Good luck and happy railroading,

Don

quote:

After we tried reset-18 on this trolley, the interior lights flashed quickly about 12 times. What does that mean?

It should have been 18 flashes followed by clinks and clanks.  This usually means the board isn't totally dead.

Don is correct.  The so-called "three clangs of death" is actually an easy fix. All you need is MTH Part no. 50-1023 "Original Protosound Reset Kit".  Hobby shops that carry MTH usually carry it, or you should be able to find one on line.  It is reusable too.

.....

Dennis

The flashes were so fast, I just estimated the number. This was after the air release sound. But it did NOT do the clank-clank-clank-clink-clink-clink code a second time as follow-up to confirm completion of reset-18.

Thank you for the info, Chuck.

Yes, that is what I understand about a BCR. But I can't be sure that an elderly guy who I probably won't meet (he left the trolley for repair with someone else) wil remember to do this every time he wants to run the trolley, at possibly irregular intervals (as mentioned in story above). When I asked him over the phone if he stil had the box and instructions for the trolley, he couldn't remember for sure. And he couldn't remember for sure when he bought it.

I know I would remember if it was mine, after I went through the task of service and repair.

I noticed that the volume was originally turned up all the way, and I believe this would cause more battery drain at lower track voltages? So I turned it down.

Thank You, I appreciate all of the feedback.

I'm looking into the availability of the reset kit (hobby stores are sparse out here). I asked a couple friends who have huge collections of O gauge trains, including numerous PS1 locos. They tried the reset kit and said it didn't help on any of their locos, then they passed it on to someone else. And these are guys with loads of trains, see photo. So I'm a bit wary of getting involved with it. I'm regretting that I got involved with this trolley, I was trying to be a nice guy ...

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Hi Ace.  I am sorry if it sounds like I am trying to push you in a direction you are uncomfortable going.  From your initial post, it seems like the announcements are more important to the owner than it running. Maybe you could explain to your friend that this is not an area that you generally work in and feel he may be better served at sending it to someone who works with proto one engines.  I believe there are several threads on the DCS forum that list names of people who specialize in working with Proto 1 engines that you might give him.  I know there are many here who feel that conventional with e units is the only way to go but many of the MTH Proto sound announcements are just too cool to pass up.  As an example, I had a Proto one Galloping Goose that had the most wonderful sounds and everyone who heard them were enthralled.  Having gone to all command, I purchased the DCS version and was disappointed so I got my old Proto one unit back.

Good luck and happy railroading,

Don

Thanks Don. I decided to order the reset kit. The trolley owner had already given me the OK to convert it to conventional, but I'll try to recover the electronics first. I can also try the reset on my own PS1 Zephyr electronics, and possibly some other friends' PS1 locos. Maybe I'll have something to report back in a week or so.

I'm not intimidated by computers and electronics but my O-gauge preferences tend towards postwar Lionel and Marx, with a few prewar items. I like most of my O-gauge trains to look and act like 1950's vintage.

BTW, Ace - I love the photo, thanks for posting.  Reminds me of this crazy place dad took me as a kid.  The guy rented out movie props for a living, but his warehouse was FULL of trains, many for sale.  Just went there once, but it made a huge impression...

Carlton

(and, yes, I got valuable info from the rest of the interchange on this topic)

Main issues with the PS-1 loco's were the battery being weak/dead and the owners not understanding the Reset-FNR startup sequence with PS-1.  The board could act up with multiple issues masked by one of the others.  You really want to do the diagnosis/reset using a Z-4000.  The combination of buttons and LED display makes the process much easier to deal with and provides additional feedback you can't get by counting flashing lights and clinks and clanks.  The back of the ZW manual and the write up for his trolley should have the specifics for resetting his train.  Please note the voltage settings recommendations to get the process right.

I think I only HAD to use the full blown chip reset twice on about 20-30 PS-1 engines I "fixed".  Most just needed new batteries (pre BCR days) and had to be programmed out of locked in neutral state.  I think there were only two engines that actually needed the bottom board replaced.  Their were problems with the "reverse unit" part of the set.  You could hear the relays click but the engine wouldn't move.

Hope you can get the unit fixed.  It would be nice for the gentleman to hear the sounds again.

I ordered the MTH reset kit, under $28 included shipping. Installed the included new battery after confirming that it was charged. Followed the instructions (using a Z-4000 transformer) and the trolley has recovered its electronic functions, including station stop announcements triggered by holding the bell button. Woo-hoo. I will attempt to educate the trolley owner about the operation and maintenance of his PS1 trolley, otherwise this could occur again in a few years.

Many Thanks for the reasoned words of wisdom towards this resolution.

I am glad that you were able to get the trolly back to it's original self and I feel sure the gentleman you repaired it for will be excited.

Well done.  Thanks for sharing your results.

Happy railroading,

Don

Hello everyone, my first time here, just registered today.

I am from Argentina, my name is Julian age 47, I am focused on HO model railroading, but being virtually in the same situation as the starter of this topic, I found this on a search.

I have been asked by an older friend modeller, who has a OO layout if I could take a look to his same trolley, identical to that posted here.

His unit does the same, some dings and does not move.

The owner however told me that when doing a battery change (he uses a standard 9V alcaline), he accidentally touched the poles in the connector with the ones in the battery in reverse polarity, it was just a second or two until he noticed the mistake, however he noticed a sort of smoke coming out from the circuitry. Mmmm, I am not an expert in this kind of trains, but probably he has burnt something inside.

The fact is that after first inspection I discovered a burnt resistor, it is R27 located just aside the battery connector, on the lower deck of the circuit.

The problem is that the resistor has blackened to a point that I cannot read the color codes to be able to buy a replacement.

My question is, does anybody have a same trolley and if so to take a look inside and let me know the value of such resistor?

If only the picture shown at the first post were from the other side I could probably zoom the image to read it, since it is at the border of the circuitry.

Again, I just want to know the value of R27, if anybody please can give me a hand on this it will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you, and greetings from Argentina.

Julian