The song from the 40's AT&SF

eddie g posted:

NOT TRUE. I have known this song since the 40's, but today I heard it again on my car radio. It is false. The  train leaves Philadelph I A and ends up in California. It is not the SF out of Philadelphia, it's the Pennsylvania RR till it gets to St. Louis. Right or wrong?

I guess you will have to complain to Johnny Mercer, who wrote the lyrics, for the 1946 song. Lots of people, all the way from Philadelphia,,,,,,,,,,,. I really don't see the problem.

eddie g posted:

NOT TRUE. I have known this song since the 40's, but today I heard it again on my car radio. It is false. The  train leaves Philadelph I A and ends up in California. It is not the SF out of Philadelphia, it's the Pennsylvania RR till it gets to St. Louis. Right or wrong?

Um...yeah. Not sure how a song can be "false" or "right" or "wrong." Did you really think about this before you posted it?

There is probably not a stairway to heaven either, but it sounds good in a song.

anyway, good song

The Broadway limited carried Sleepers from the ATSF to and from New York, as did the Santa Fe carry PRR sleepers. They interchanged in Chicago. So therefore you could ride an ATSF sleeper from Philadelphia(or New York) to Los Angeles. 

conrail5065 posted:

The Broadway limited carried Sleepers from the ATSF to and from New York, as did the Santa Fe carry PRR sleepers. They interchanged in Chicago. So therefore you could ride an ATSF sleeper from Philadelphia(or New York) to Los Angeles. 

They did that in 1946 when the song was written?

conrail5065 posted:

The Broadway limited carried Sleepers from the ATSF to and from New York, as did the Santa Fe carry PRR sleepers. They interchanged in Chicago. So therefore you could ride an ATSF sleeper from Philadelphia(or New York) to Los Angeles. 

I dunno.  The Santa Fe used Dearborn Street Station while the Pennsy used Union Station. 

I can't imagine folks being allowed to stay on a sleeper as it was being switched over without any heat or cooling to say nothing of being jostled around by a switcher or delays of movement.  The passengers would still have to walk, use a cab or Keeshin Motor Service to get to the other station.

Rusty

Hot Water posted:

conrail5065 posted:

The Broadway limited carried Sleepers from the ATSF to and from New York, as did the Santa Fe carry PRR sleepers. They interchanged in Chicago. So therefore you could ride an ATSF sleeper from Philadelphia(or New York) to Los Angeles. 

They did that in 1946 when the song was written?

Rusty Traque posted:

conrail5065 posted:

The Broadway limited carried Sleepers from the ATSF to and from New York, as did the Santa Fe carry PRR sleepers. They interchanged in Chicago. So therefore you could ride an ATSF sleeper from Philadelphia(or New York) to Los Angeles. 

I dunno.  The Santa Fe used Dearborn Street Station while the Pennsy used Union Station. 

I can't imagine folks being allowed to stay on a sleeper as it was being switched over without any heat or cooling to say nothing of being jostled around by a switcher or delays of movement.  The passengers would still have to walk, use a cab or Keeshin Motor Service to get to the other station.

Rusty

"Beginning in March of 1946, the train(Broadway Limited) began handling through 4-4-2 sleeping cars transferred at Chicago to and from Los Angeles via the Santa Fe's Famous Chief(and later Super Chief). The service would last until October 1957." Welsh, Joe. Pennsylvania Railroad's Broadway Limited. Voyageur Press, 2006. 

Interestingly enough from 46 to 47 it also says the eastbound Broadway Limited would carry a LA to New York  
Rock island Sleeper. 

conrail5065 posted:

Hot Water posted:

conrail5065 posted:

The Broadway limited carried Sleepers from the ATSF to and from New York, as did the Santa Fe carry PRR sleepers. They interchanged in Chicago. So therefore you could ride an ATSF sleeper from Philadelphia(or New York) to Los Angeles. 

They did that in 1946 when the song was written?

Rusty Traque posted:

conrail5065 posted:

The Broadway limited carried Sleepers from the ATSF to and from New York, as did the Santa Fe carry PRR sleepers. They interchanged in Chicago. So therefore you could ride an ATSF sleeper from Philadelphia(or New York) to Los Angeles. 

I dunno.  The Santa Fe used Dearborn Street Station while the Pennsy used Union Station. 

I can't imagine folks being allowed to stay on a sleeper as it was being switched over without any heat or cooling to say nothing of being jostled around by a switcher or delays of movement.  The passengers would still have to walk, use a cab or Keeshin Motor Service to get to the other station.

Rusty

"Beginning in March of 1946, the train(Broadway Limited) began handling through 4-4-2 sleeping cars transferred at Chicago to and from Los Angeles via the Santa Fe's Famous Chief(and later Super Chief). The service would last until October 1957." Welsh, Joe. Pennsylvania Railroad's Broadway Limited. Voyageur Press, 2006. 

Interestingly enough from 46 to 47 it also says the eastbound Broadway Limited would carry a LA to New York  
Rock island Sleeper. 

For those who maybe skeptical here is a link to the google Books version.

https://books.google.com/books...ge&q&f=false

Now, for the next mystery, from another famous train song: if you leave the Pennsylvania Station at a quarter to four, will you really be in Baltimore after reading a magazine?

And were ham and eggs really served while the train passed through Carolina?

BTW: Santa Fe's #49 was a Baldwin 4-4-0 built in 1878 and sold to the North Western Pacific in 1912...

Another inaccuracy in the song!  What is this world coming to?  We can't even trust the past!!

And 49 was an open slot in Santa Fe's diesel numbering, although the Museum of the American Railroad in Frisco, Texas has an ex-SP F7 painted up as Santa Fe 49.

Rusty

Both of these famous songs are classics and have great melodies thanks to Harry Warren who wrote the MUSIC and NOT the lyrics, which must be attributed to "poetic license". Just enjoy them for what they are!

The song was written as the opening number for the movie, The Harvey Girls, staring Judy Garland, who sang it.

The movie was set in a much earlier time, late 19th or early 20th century. It was never intended to imply that the AT&SF departed Philadelphia, more that train travelers were coming west from far away places like that, and with some tweaking Warren and Mercer could make the lyric rhyme.

The Harvey House restaurants grew out of the need to feed rail passengers in the time before on board dining cars.

Old RR songs certainly evoke thoughts from the great days... "Hey Jim, you better get out the rig"  Horse drawn taxi? 

 I don't have my old Pennsy timetables handy so I don't know when the Congo (or Senator from Baaahston)  would leave Penn Station but I'd suspect when "Chattanooga Choo Choo" was written in 1941 that it was "Leaving the PENNSYLVANIA station about quarter to four" pulled by relatively new GG1.    

Those were the days... lucky we are recreating them in miniature. 

I remember reading instructions for the interchange of the through sleeper between Union Station and Dearborn Station in Chicago. The car WAS occupied. The instructions carried remarks that he car was to be handled with a minimum of discomfort to the passengers.

It's been quite a while, but if I recall correctly the eastbound move was handled by a Santa Fe crew and locomotive while the westbound move was handled by the Pennsy. Another through sleeper operated at one time via the New York Central and Santa Fe railroads.

As to the original post, REALLY?

It's a dopey song, for heaven's sake.

BTW, lest anyone get all exercised about it, there was never any train called the "Chattanooga Choo Choo", nor was there ever a Track 29 in Pennsylvania Station. (The highest numbered track was and is 21 and was and is exclusively used by LIRR commuter trains. The lengthiest long distance limiteds generally used the middle tracks of the station, Tracks 11 through 14.

Then there was the gag about the mountain lion that attacked Roy Rogers and tore up his brand new pair of cowboy boots.

After Roy had tracked down and killed the mountain lion and was dragging it's carcass back to town behind Trigger, a guy spotted him and asked: "Pardon me Roy, is that the cat that chewed your new shoes?"

Nick Chillianis posted:

. . .  a guy spotted him and asked: "Pardon me Roy, is that the cat that chewed your new shoes?"

That's a terrific groaner, Nick.  Unfortunately I am not permitted to award merits for groaner jokes, but, if I were, you'd receive ten for that one.

Number 90 posted:

Nick Chillianis posted:

. . .  a guy spotted him and asked: "Pardon me Roy, is that the cat that chewed your new shoes?"

That's a terrific groaner, Nick.  Unfortunately I am not permitted to award merits for groaner jokes, but, if I were, you'd receive ten for that one.

That joke is so old that it has more hair on it than the mountain lion did.

Here is something else I found online. The May 14. 1956 edition of the Santa Fe's "Super Chief" had through sleepers to New York City via both the Broadway Limited and 20th Century Limited and a through sleeper to Washington, DC via the B&O.

Streamliner Schedules

And were ham and eggs really served while the train passed through Carolina?

Nothing could be finer......