The Trainz Newsletter

Congratulations, Scott.  I did see the newsletter but did not make the connection to your layout.  What are you going to do with the residuals they pay you?  

- Mike

 What are you going to do with the residuals they pay you?

I guess I will use all of it to pay for my parking spot at York this April.

Scott Smith

Not a good thing when photos are "stolen" without permission or knowledge

Scott - Can we assume that they credited it as being your layout?  And also that they asked you if it was O.K. ahead of time?

Art

No credit given. They also didn't ask permission. I found out by getting their newsletter with my photo in it. In the terms and conditions of Collector-Dash they have the right to use the pictures. However I don't see where they had the right to reassign those rights to a 3rd party. I know Collector Dash and Trainz are closely related however they are separate corporations. Trainz is using my photo for their business purposes. Even if they have a legal right; a heads up we are going to use your photo would have been polite and professional. Is LocoLawyer out there to give us a legal opinion?

Scott Smith

My short response is "That sucks!"  My next thought is that if they are unprofessional about things like this....?

Art

I think it's pretty lousy they did not give you a heads up. 

Scott, have you contacted Trainz about this?

First, congratulations that they recognized the quality of your layout. However, if they did not seek your permission to use the photo, that to me is not a good thing.

I would certainly let Trainz know of your displeasure by unauthorized use of the photo. 

No I haven't contacted them. I really wanted a few opinions on this before I did. I really like the Collector-Dash site and find it useful and I like Trainz as a company as well. I am not if Collector-Dash violated their own terms of use/privacy policy or if Trainz did. Does it allow anyone to take photos to promote their business. Could Charles Ro or Western Depot, for example, pick out photos and send e-mails of them to their customer base or use the on their website?

http://www.collector-modeltrai...m/dash/terms-of-use/

http://www.collector-modeltrai...dash/privacy-policy/

Scott Smith

Ok I will out them too.

They were the guys who gave me the run around on the 0 96 Gargraves curves. They finally applied a credit to my card last week. It was not al lot of money but the time it took to clear things up way out of line.

Richard

I think they are walking a real fine line . As you can see I started a thread about what happened to you. Their TOS seems like they can indeed sell your picture to a 3rd party but the question becomes did Trainz go through DASH as some sort of partnership (sleazy but may be covered) or did they go image hunting on the DASH site which would be wrong and illegal under DCMA

DASH

Here's a more serious question for you...

There are two photos.  Obviously it's the original photo duplicated and placed underneath.  But unless you posted two different shots with different lighting, they must have taken your original photo and altered it without your knowledge or permission.  That is, they "darkened" it to illustrate their point.  Altering or modifying an original photo to me, as a naive layman when it comes to legal matters, does seem to be somewhat unethical, no?

- Mike 

They darkened my original photo.

Scott Smith

You should email Scott Griggs and see what he has to say.

sgriggs@trainz.com

I don't think the OP was disparaging to the sponsor until all these other know nothing squirrels came down from their respective trees.

Talk about disparaging...

or did they change the brightness, gama, and contrast to enhance the original to make the new and improved photo?

Just kidding scott...  I believe you.

I'll let the legal-beagles comment on the fine details. This just doesn't pass the smell test. At the very least, I'd suggest contacting Trainz directly and let them know exactly how you feel about the matter.

Gilly

Even if its illegal (which is probably not the case), what are the damages? Scott wasn't even mentioned in the photo.

Damages minimal, improper, uncredited, improper  use of some elses work (intellectual property) is the problem. The DCMA is a very nasty law to run afoul of. The biggest problem is lack of common courtesy

I truly hope all of this is a joke. If not I find it all quite petty. We throw pictures around here all over the place to bust out our chests about what we do. Very few of our photos are a work of art. We act as if Trainz is this multimillion dollar franchise, when in fact it is a rather small business with a warehouse and maybe 10 employees or so found in a backlot of a small industrial complex in a small Georgia town. Scott, you got a little recognition….not sure how they got a photo of your layout. Did they search the internet or something for it? You had to post it somewhere. Actually, I would have been very pleased to have mine selected. I also hate our legal trigger happy mentality…seems to be the norm these days. And Scott, why come on here to complain? Was that to let everyone know it was your layout? If you were incensed, why not approach Scott Briggs first? And I guess I should apologize for my rant, but something about many of the replies to this thread just hit a nerve. 

Rick

I'd just let it go. If you complain or start anything you have to ask yourself where it would go, where you would want it to go, and why you would want/have an advantage if it went that way.  Here I see no or very little "gain" for what could be a lot of bother.  We live in an age where all manner of images, information and personal data we post on the internet is taken and used by others.  I've had similar minor things - some graphics I did, a couple of small articles - pirated and used without permission/attribution. I view that as the cost of working on/via the internet.  I have taken action in two cases of outright plagiarism over the last many years, but that was a matter of professional ethics I thought was important.  Both situations were a lot of hassle for very little satisfaction, although ultimately people did the right thing.

I showed this to my wife, the lawyer, and she said:"uh-Oh!! Copyright, Copyright!"

So, Sir Scott, the "ball" is in your court.

I don't think Scott is looking for anything more than common courtesy. One should ask before using something that belongs to someone else. It would be like if your neighbor had a business mowing lawns in your neighborhood and you found out each day he was coming over and taking your rake. Now perhaps if he asked first you wouldn't mind, but how would you feel if you found out he was doing this without asking?

In the end Trainz is a business. Trainz would not let you take a train out to use on the clubs layout unless you bought it, they should not be using someone else work without asking as well

Well, maybe a lawsuit would be in order? I'm sure Scott could use some extra train money, couldn't we all?

Simply contacting them won't matter, they'll just say " oh, sorry pal, we won't let that happen again. How about a discount coupon to our site?"

Actually, Chris, in my neighborhood it happens all of the time. But, Scott shall pursue if he must. Somehow, for this incident it has a gut feeling of just not being right. Just my humble opinion.

RickO, If Scott was cool with it a discount would be a good start, it's up for him to decide. The better thing would be for Trainz to correct their practice and get permission first and for DASH to no longer claim ownership rights to everything posted on their site

And Ranger Rick, rough neighborhood. Because it happens , is it right? Would it be OK for me to start posting my copies of the digital edition of the OGR magazine around if I felt like it?

I think a bit of common courtesy is all anyone is asking for

I would call and ask them about this...see what they say. 

Well, you did notice that he said it does happen in his neighborhood all the time, but didn't specifically answer your original question of how people taking his stuff without asking would make him feel. 

Doesn't matter if it's a picture posted on the Internet, a rake sitting against the fence, or a car in a parking lot.  Just because it's in plain sight doesn't mean it's free for the taking or borrowing.

 Discount?? Coupon???

I'm in!

Scott???

Hmmm, must be shopping already.

John. I am sorry. I guess I implied the wrong thing with my answer. I have neighbors that borrow rakes, shovels, snow shovels, and even the lawn mower and then return it. I have an open carport and things are in plain sight. Gas is always placed in the lawn mower upon return and items are placed where they should. Not a bad neighborhood at all…..actually it is a throwback to many small towns before the late 60's and 70's. Gas was 29 cents and not a single person was running anything but conventional. Not sure they were better times, but there was sure a heck of lot less of "mine, mine, mine, mine" attitude. A few less lawyers I suppose too. I hope Scott gets this thing straightened out for him. 

I am joining this late, so I'm sure I may have missed something.

Short story-went through a nasty credit card dispute last year with a Mexico hotel. Took 5 months to resolve.  Money involved is the only reason I put up such a fight. Credit Card company finally got my money.  A lot of my time wasted.  Was it worth it?  Money-yes. Time-no.  Frustration-#### no.  Only good thing was leaving a review so others don't make the same mistake.

Moral of story-Only OP knows if it's important...

I am not a member of Trainz.  I have no vested interest either way.  Right or wrong (legal contracts don't care about opinions, only what is stated), if Trainz' user terms state use of your pictures, they are Trainz' to use.  A 'courtesy message' would be nice, but if it isn't stated in their user terms/policy, they don't owe us anything. 

Scott, I'd sue the pants off of 'em cause you are going to need that money to pay for your parking spot at York cause York has been rippin you off...parking is FREE.

Rick

If it was my layout photo they used, I'd be flattered and that would be it. Doing anything additional would be just a waste of time and effort. Just my 2¢.

hey wait a minute.

what about that guy with the apron  printed

   .

I enjoy the photos of your layout, Scott, and apparently Trainz recognized it as a layout such as their customers would be pleased to own and photograph.

Since you asked, if it were my photo I would point out in writing that it was used without obtaining permission or giving credit, and provide my phone number and a friendly-sounding invitation to talk about it.  Even though they may technically have a right to use it from Collector-Dash, it would still be good business on their part to receive permission and give credit before putting up a photo.  After all, a lot are available, and, if a fellow would prefer that his photo not be used, there are many who would be glad to allow use of their images.  There's no sense to alienate a potential customer.

It's a bad business practice for anyone to do this.  People forget it costs money to defend a lawsuit.   Why put yourself at risk with gray areas?  Just ask someone to use their photo, especially if you're going to alter it.   I'm sure 99.99% of us would love to be asked by someone to use a photo of our layout.  There are plenty of lawyers who are hobbyists and numerous hobbyists with deep pockets who have little qualm about protecting their rights as they see them.  Dumb thing to do.

--Greg