Things aren't looking good for the Greenbrier Express

"Things aren't looking good for the Greenbrier Express..."

....What a surprise....

Uh Oh.....this doesn't look good.

It wasn't much of a "Greenbrier " without a 4-8-4 anyway.

Any pointers to the old thread?  Did anyone save a copy?

Viewliners would be better.  If train did not work out, sell them to Amtrak.

Surely, twice a week is for 52 weeks a year would be more than the typical PV operates, plus you're talking about an entire train, not one or two cars occasionally tacked on the the back of an Amtrak train.

I also think gutting the interiors has little to do with the structural strength of the car.

Bringing the crash-worthiness of the cars up to contemporary standards probably would also be required for insurance liability reasons.

Rusty

Rusty,

I still think that because they were built before a certain date they would have been grandfathered in and exempt from newer crash-worthiness standards. Take for instance NJ Transits Comet 1's which were just retired two years ago. Those cars were only 10 years newer then most of these cars and were never put up to newer standards and on top of that they were running 7 days a week in hard commuter service. In fact quite a few of them are still in service with Septa and even after switching owners they still weren't required to be upgraded to the new crash-worthiness standards. It must have had something to do with the interiors being reconfigured that all of the sudden new standards are being imposed upon them (I know that tunneling the interior has nothing to do with structural integrity for the most part). 

Mat

Could be that the project was put on hold or cancelled because the money just ran out.  Unfortunately sometimes that happens with a project like this, where you need to decide if you want to spend even more money or just cut your losses.

Jim

I have no inside knowledge but I wouldn't jump to big conclusions.  Just because they decide to unload one (or all) of the U-boats does not mean that the rest of the project is in trouble.  As a non-railroader, I have always heard that U-boats are troublesome.

Today GE makes a pretty good locomotive. But the C39-8's of yesteryear were not one of their better ideas. The "Dash 8's" as this series was called, was an improvement over the "Dash 7's" (as in C30-7, etc.) but they didn't measure up to EMD's "Dash-2" series (as in SD40-2) of that era.

Today there are still a lot of old SD40-2's running around. You would have to look long and hard to find a C39-8 (the SD40's direct competitor) running today. What does that tell you?

The Greenbrier Express folks may have seen the light and gotten a better deal on some newer power. It is a buyer's market right now in the used diesel locomotive market.

As NKP779 said, I would not jump to the conclusion that the project is dead simply because they are selling this old power.

Time will tell.

First I've become aware of this.  It would be great trip to ride to White Sulphur Springs, stay at the Greenbrier ($$$$) and get a tour of that amazing bunker.

Today's personal inspection of 614 reveals that she is good to go. Where & when I wish I could say, but even that I don't know.

How do you figure that she is "good to go"? C&O 614 isn't remotely FRA certified for operation. Is 614 going to be towed to some new location?

Hot Water -

She appears good to go wherever the Fantasy World of Foamers would like to take her; everyone here including yourself knows that actually doing so is another story.

So, I took a drive this afternoon, and I took a few pictures. I did a little photo manipulation when I got home, and all in all, I had a great day as I hope everyone else here did as well !!!

Even dead in tow I'll believe it when I see it....I hope I see it... but time will tell.

Maybe the new power is Amtrak?

From the Charleston Gazette  3-1-2012:

http://wvgazette.com/News/201203010211

"Amtrak's Cardinal passenger train travels between Washington, White Sulphur Springs and points west three times weekly on the Buckingham Branch. To avoid additional traffic congestion on the already busy single-track section, it may be desirable to attach The Greenbrier Presidential Express to the rear of Cardinal, Rowland said, and follow the Amtrak train's schedule between Union Station and the resort."

/Mitch

There ya go. No need to keep the motive power with the new operations plan.

This has a much bigger chance of success by using the Amtrak train and schedule.

Time to change the title of the tread to "Things are looking up for the Greenbrier Express"!

Jim

All this amounts to is premium service on a scheduled train. I think this kind of thing has been tried before.

>>The luxury train will also include an open observation car, <<

Isn't that a no-no for both Amtrak and CSX?

Thought I'd bring back this old topic as the proposed Greenbrier Presidential Express is pretty much dead with the recent auction sale of all but four of the passenger cars. Four cars were retained for what appears to be a possible private car type of service. Its a shame as it was a great idea and had the financial backing, but federal regulations, the recession, and CSX killed it.

Here are links to articles on the auction:

http://www.pottsmerc.com/gener...xury-rail-line-dream

http://www.wvgazette.com/artic...40914/GZ01/140919705

http://www.blackmonauctions.com/auctions/135./

Ken

There currently is an ongoing "debate" that ALL 15 cars have been sold, i.e. NOT leaving four cars for something else. All of the cars moved eastward from Denver (15), formerly from the American Orient Express, have now been sold at auction.

"Bones" from Star Trek would make this observation, "It's dead, Jim!"

This was inevitable.  Bones is right.  It's dead.

Too bad. I'm amazed to see so much of the original finish of this diner still intact...

It would interesting to know where the cars heading and what they realized at auction.

There are reports on other forums of the buyers. As I recall, NS, WMSR, UP (I think) are some of the buyers. 

Thanks, SJC. I'll check it out.

Nice photos.  they are in good shape but the cosmetics and updated would cost a fortune, too.  A shame.  I hope somebody does something good with them.

Proposed interior design...

That's not the original finish. All that faux finish was added (probably) when the car was rebuilt for service with the American Orient Express. 

Think about it, when these modern, lightweight passenger cars were built, wooden passenger cars were old fashioned and represented dirty, open windowed train travel. The designers of lightweight passenger cars did everything they could to not have any wooden finishes. It was all streamlined, rounded and painted.

This fake wooden interior was added for the sake of tourists who think (from movies and novels) that this is how the interior of railcars should look. It's not for railroad fans who understand and appreciate actual history.

Jeff, I can't disagree with your comment. The fitting-out of dark and heavy wood details is definitely inconsistent with passenger cars built in 1949. The appearance didn't make sense to me either. I was initially thrown by the presence of marquetry (now assuming that it's most likely stenciled) and my comment was based on that finding alone. However, closer examination of the photographs reveals other details that are

suspect.  

Interestingly, the two renderings above of proposed interior design are completely unsympathetic of streamline styling. I understand that the desire was to extend the esthetic of the Greenbrier and incorporate the train. The result, quite frankly, is hideous. The designer for the Greenbrier needs to graduate beyond the 8-count box of crayons.

I'm happy to see this fleet move onto more capable hands.

Well this just proves that CSX is no longer steam friendly or non Amtrak passenger train friendly. UP and NS have steam programs to use these cars with. 611 is coming back to NS, C&O 614 is "trapped" in WV with no hope of mainline service ever again unless a change in attitude happens at CSX. You can forget about 614 running special trips on CSX up to Baltimore and Philly. CSX is only interested in moving freight and making money. Not entertaining the public and railfans with a choo-choo. CSX never had an official steam program anyway since the merger in the 1980's, unlike NS which kept Southern's steam program into the NS merger in 1982 along with 611 and later 1218. David Goode killed the program end of 1994 because he was a steam hater like the current management at CSX. Wick Moorman is a steam lover. E. Hunter Harrison at CP, formerly of CN announced that he is a steam hater. He said I hate steam engines, they serve no useful purpose and they are a waste of time.

Please!  Nooooo . . . !