Thomas in S

That's a great-looking model and it's wonderful that you and your grandson enjoy it so much. The O and OO versions are out there, and I agree on your take that the S scale market could be too limited.

Also, your model is pretty close to reality.  

Here's the original Thomas, an E2 tank engine of the London, Brighton & South Coast Ry. The original design had the curved pilot beam and extended tanks to give that step-out over the front drivers.

Never say never..

I believe the answer to the Thomas question was they're looking into the licensing.  Make of it what you will.  It looks like licensing isn't cart blanc across the scales.

Thomas seems to be doing fine in HO without all the doo-wah technology and in G for Bachmann , so overall it might do well in S.  I expect any official Flyer model would use the Docksider drive like Jerry's model.

I would expect Thomas to have the same impact on S as the Polar Express, which is negligible.

Rusty

I agree, no need to build Thomas stuff and use scarce tooling cash that could be used for models of real trains. 

Maybe a Hogwarts train in S would be more fun and prototypical? 

Hogwarts Express would require all new tooling, sucking up even more tooling cash.  There's nothing currently in the Flyer line that could be reused.  There isn't even mechanism that could be reused.

The Hogwarts locomotive is the former Great Western Railway Olton Hall, a Hall (4900) Class 4-6-0 #5972.

Rusty

Yep, lots of tooling money $$$$$$.

Probably an Atlantic, Pacific, or Hudson would be worth the tooling cost and sell a lot more product.  Make them with plastic shells and put in FlyerChief.  Use multiple similar chassis and use the same components like Gilbert did.

Wow, it could be the middle 1950's again! 

Carl Tuveson posted:

Never say never..

And always avoid always... 

Rusty Traque posted:

 

Thomas seems to be doing fine in HO without all the doo-wah technology and in G for Bachmann , so overall it might do well in S. 

The thing is, most folks WANT all the doo-wahs.  I refer to it as "sparky stuff". 

I expect any official Flyer model would use the Docksider drive like Jerry's model.

FWIW, the photo shows how much I cut the Docksider's chassis.  Perhaps "butchered" would be more apropos.  Mine is straight DC.  It was all I could do to put lighting circuits in.  And the chuff unit is too quiet anyway.  Notice, I cut off the smoke portion, and cut the motor bracket to fit the cab.

 

I would expect Thomas to have the same impact on S as the Polar Express, which is negligible.

But it seems to have been a hit with already established S guys.  I may be wrong, just ask my wife...

Rusty

I don't deny things like the Polar Express and Thomas are popular, but I don't see them as a "growth medium" for S, particularly since there's little to nothing available in S to further support this kind of thing beyond the initial set purchase.

As far as Thomas goes, I'm sure Lionel will weigh the cost of getting the S Scale license (which apparently they have to apply for) vs. potential sales based partially on Polar Express sales.

Rusty

Firewood posted:

That's a great-looking model and it's wonderful that you and your grandson enjoy it so much. The O and OO versions are out there, and I agree on your take that the S scale market could be too limited.

Also, your model is pretty close to reality.  

Here's the original Thomas, an E2 tank engine of the London, Brighton & South Coast Ry. The original design had the curved pilot beam and extended tanks to give that step-out over the front drivers.

This engine has only been made accurately by Hornby in OO. All other Thomas models are based off the TV series look.

RaritanRiverRailroadFan4 posted:

Firewood posted:

That's a great-looking model and it's wonderful that you and your grandson enjoy it so much. The O and OO versions are out there, and I agree on your take that the S scale market could be too limited.

Also, your model is pretty close to reality.  

Here's the original Thomas, an E2 tank engine of the London, Brighton & South Coast Ry. The original design had the curved pilot beam and extended tanks to give that step-out over the front drivers.

This engine has only been made accurately by Hornby in OO. All other Thomas models are based off the TV series look.

Which are based on Rev. Awdry's original drawings:

Rusty

If Lionel was to make Thomas it would have to look like the TV version to catch the eyes of the market or kids.  People like us would want one more prototypical, but we aren't the market. 

There are various 1:1 versions of Thomas out there.  In my OCD way of doing things, I collected a number of photos when I ginned up my S gauge version.  There are a few out there.  The one that Mark found has steam cylinders while others don't.  Case in point:

This one is the most like the TV version, and what Lionel does in O.  I give them props for that. 

And I can't see present day Lionel NOT including Legacy or FlyerChief in it, even though they have "traditional" controlled Baldwins, for example.  And Rusty has a point.  It won't grow S.  But it may spur present S folks to buy one.  The demand for a Thomas in S is nowhere near what it could have been years ago, so any hope of one in S is long gone.  Oh sure, he's quite popular, but not like when he first came out.  However, since I work at Greenfield Village, it's pandemonium when Thomas comes there.  Three weekends of kids, kids, kids. 

Bill, I made mine as "prototypical" as I could.  OCD, remember?   He's scaled out as well as I could from both the O version and the one in the above photo.  And you're right.  More is needed than just Thomas.  That's why I did these:

Hey, Lionel!  If you ever want something to base your S gauge one on, I'll lend you mine!  All I ask is a certified first one off the line.  Yeah, right.  That and $5 will get me a cup of coffee...

The one Thomas with external cylinders is the only one that's an actual steam locomotive, being built out of a Brooklyn East District Terminal 0-6-0T.

The rest are "Caboose with side rods."  Six (as I recall) are unpowered representations built in the Strasburg shops.  They essentially have a brake stand, an air whistle and something to generate a little smoke.  The require a locomotive on the other end of the train to provide motion.

As far as real-life Thomas events being kids, kids, kids, that's correct.  However, when they go home, they either play with whatever Thomas stuff they have, or play with other stuff.  There's a glut of Thomas product out there, Bachmann (HO) and Brio probably have the widest selection of items. 

While an S set would satisfy the choir, sales probably wouldn't be enough to justify anything beyond Thomas, Annie and Clarabelle.

Rusty

Here is my version of Thomas in S that I made a few years ago. The body is a plastic Schylling whistle and the chassis is made by splicing together two junk Casey Jones loco chassis.  The wheel spacing and size of the lengthened Casey Jones loco chassis matched the whistle's plastic wheels exactly.  It uses an original Casey Jones motor and I added a Casey Jones type smoke unit. The plastic flange on the center set of wheels was removed to make them blind drivers.  The side rods were made from sheet aluminum.  Since the wheels are plastic, the biggest problem was power pickup.  I tried making some sliding shoe pickups which worked for a while, but weren't very good.  Eventually I used a lighted caboose for power pickup and tethered it to the engine.  I plan to install a can motor which should make it run a bit smoother.  Other than the $5 whistle, the remainder of the parts came out of my junk box, so it was a fairly cheap experiment.

Dean

banjoflyer posted:

Big <snip>

Now, how do we fit Legacy control inside it...Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

Mark

Well, here is one approach. Lionel has a very small TMCC board that is used inside the RR inspection vehicles (e.g., 6-37061) and Railroad speeders (e.g., 6-38811). This board could fit into a modified dockside made to look like Thomas much like what Jerry has fashioned. If one wishes for sounds, a sound module like the one currently found in the sounds boxcars could be fitted into 'Annie' behind Thomas. Wild-as**d market speculations aside, an S gauge Thomas set could be done partly based on currently available Lionel bits.

Bob

Dean Hall posted:

Here is my version of Thomas in S that I made a few years ago.

 

Dean

Nice job, Dean!  I wonder how many other guys out there made a Thomas? 

I did another one for a guy based on a cheap pull toy, also with a Docksider chassis.  He gave it to his 3 year old grandson, and the results were what you'd expect.  It ended up trashed.  I even managed to fit the Lionel reverse unit in it.  It also required extensive butchering.  A third one was made for my train club to be used on the tin plate layout.  It's still in operation and is a hit at shows.  But it's not as "scalified" as my first one.

Wow.  My one question started all of this discussion.  I finally went to Trainland and spoke to Ryan directly.  Surprisingly I was not the only one to ask about an "S" gauge Thomas.  Even Ken Jr. from Trainland asked the question.  The bottom line is there is a lot of interest in having Thomas the Tank engine in "S" scale.  Lionel is looking into the licensing issue as the written reply stated.  As for if this is  worth putting the tooling money into for Lionel I would say yes especially with all the responses here and in person. 

Look if we ever want to see "S" grow it needs to bring new blood into it.  Thomas can only help with that.  Old American Flyer accessories could be repainted and reused as Thomas accessories.  There was an episode with a cow on the Track, A Breakdown Train episode among others.  With the FlyerChief Docksider set coming out it makes me believe a Flyer Chief Thomas would be possible in "S". 

I can not tell if this would be the best use of Lionel's tooling money for 2018 but I do believe it would sell even better than the Polar Express and has many more add on possibilities for the future.  As I said in my original statement, (If done right) I think this would take away sales from Bachmann as the size is perfect for kids.  Not too big not too small and it's 2 rail just like Thomas on TV. 

When I spoke with Ryan I told him that I had an Autistic son who loves Thomas but can't get the HO version on the Track. I suggested making a combination RR grated crossing that was also a re-railer (No gates just the roadway).  This way kids could use the 10" track to get the engines on and we could add crossing gates later with the same Fastrack.

The bottom line is this if it would sell and bring people into the train stores, the dealers will want it.  And if can make money Lionel will want it. 

--Rocco--

Rocco posted:

Wow.  My one question started all of this discussion.  I finally went to Trainland and spoke to Ryan directly.  Surprisingly I was not the only one to ask about an "S" gauge Thomas.  Even Ken Jr. from Trainland asked the question.  The bottom line is there is a lot of interest in having Thomas the Tank engine in "S" scale.  Lionel is looking into the licensing issue as the written reply stated.  As for if this is  worth putting the tooling money into for Lionel I would say yes especially with all the responses here and in person. 

 

Big <snip>

 

When I spoke with Ryan I told him that I had an Autistic son who loves Thomas but can't get the HO version on the Track. I suggested making a combination RR grated crossing that was also a re-railer (No gates just the roadway).  This way kids could use the 10" track to get the engines on and we could add crossing gates later with the same Fastrack.

The bottom line is this if it would sell and bring people into the train stores, the dealers will want it.  And if can make money Lionel will want it. 

--Rocco--

 

Actually, the requests are not that surprising. It is a perennial major request going back certainly more than a decade, as I recall overheard comments and suggestions offered in Orange Hall at York. Hope Lionel makes an "S" Thomas and that your son gets one soon. 

Bob