Those expensive repairs!!!

replaced a circuit board on another

guys loco.

Lionel 2-4-2 starter set loco, $50 loco.

cost him $50 to fix it.

and in my original post, that same friend had a

Lionel Hudson. had to replace the board.

That cost him $50. Those electronics are not cheap.

Sounds like they need to add a set of TVS's to the power lines going to the track. one from each wire to earth ground will prevent most of that.

I suspect He, like I walks up to the layout and sometimes static will jump to the rails.

A TVS dumps the jolt to ground, otherwise it runs through your trains and down both rails to the transformer to get to ground, and they don't like it.

Blew out a PS2 board, could see the burned diode from the edge of the

board but getting that board apart was impossible. Cost $250 for the

board and installation.

Bought an MPC turbine but the sound system did not work, replaced a .50c voltage regulator to fix it. Those days are long gone.

I am weighing on getting one of mine repaired. The sound board is toast but the engine still runs ans smokes. However both engines at times appear to be so lightly out of sync.

BTW the damage was my fault, did you ever wounder what happens when you put to much smoke fluid in an engine. Well it goes everywhere and shorted the sound board plus collected in the speaker.

In any event I have a rough estimate of around $150 for the repair.

It might be cheaper to just replace and sell this one for parts or something.

Popi, I can't comment on the MTH, but the reverse unit circuit boards for the Lionel starter steam engines like the 2-4-2 and the 4-4-2 are under $20 in cost. Where you are paying (which is only reasonable to expect) is someone's time to take the loco apart, do the installation and put it back together.

Repairs are expensive for almost everything you can name. Learning to fix the trains yourself is the one way to cut down that cost.

Oh, if I only was as interested in automobiles like I am with trains. Going to the repair garage with the car will probably make you say "ouch" louder than with the trains.

That's what I've done in three digital-era engines that took the pipe.

If your buddy blew up two locos and does not know how or when he did it, there's a good chance that he will do it again.

At a bare minimum, you have to realize you made a mistake and understand the nature of the mistake if you are ever to avoid making that mistake again.

If this is a PS-2 3V, or even a PS-2 5 the audio amp can be replaced.

I do component level repairs so you don't have to buy a new board.  G

Ive had a few boards blown, expensive but luckily not the majority of my train budget

We are lucky.  One of the guys was telling me about a Cessna circuit board - all it does is convert a vane position to a noise.  A diode or capacitor will fail, and the charge for a replacement is four thousand dollars.  Rumor is that somebody knows how to fix them for $35, including labor.  Fortunately, my airplanes do not need stall warning horns.

I am watching the comments on Sunset's new sound system.  I only need one locomotive with good sound.  My single MTH needs a factory reset before I can hear the whistle.

I believe one of our venerable forumites once opined that this was how his "Shelf Queens" were born.  Too costly to fix, too costly to sell...still looks good just sitting there.  'Drop the fire' and put it on the shelf.  Or, better yet, park it in the roundhouse...permanently...or on a ready track (maybe you could even power the lights, a smoke unit, and a stationary steam sound module nearby to give it some sensational worth.)

Maybe this is the way the R/C crowd gets even with us trains folks?  I am constantly amazed at the $$$ the mavens of R/C planes, helicopters, and cars spend at our store (LHS) in order to 'enjoy' the hobby....You know, rebuilding the item after 'The Big Crash'?  Engines, motors, servos, cameras, speed control modules, receivers, LiPo batteries, machined aluminum parts, tires, rims, bodies, wings, fuselages, rotors, etc., etc., etc..  Good grief, Charlie Brown!  This is fun!  

So, maybe we should join in and just consider this sort of outlay "fun"!!!

Just a morning thought. 

Need more java...

KD

That's only a $14 part.

For decades we lived without sound, especially in "HO" and "N" gauge, they lived and strived. "O" gauge has always it seemed had smoke, whistles or horn, To lose the sound now seems a dire in the hobby. To me, I'll just run em without the sound effects, rather then turn them into shelf queens, or pay a high amount to repair/replace.

Rob and Brianel,

your both right.

the part was only $15.

But lionel charges $10 S/H

and I charged him $25 labor.

so that brought the cost of the repair

to $50

Postwar Lionel had mechanical

smoke units and sound units.

But everything is now computer

related and electronics.

The new electronics work great when they work,

when they don't.......................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Top suspect in those PS/2 boards is the battery, especially for the older 5V equipped models.  If you see a white MTH battery, chances are very good that it's dead.  Symptoms are that the locomotive will keep stopping and losing the address, sound familiar?

And an E-unit can be used with a rectifier for F-N-R operation.

A reproduction e-unit is $40 now a days from a parts dealer, not sure why you would modify an electronic DC motor engine to a mechanical AC E-unit with a bridge rectifier.

I have done the opposite, using a $15 electronic DC reverse unit with added bridge to replace a mechanical E-unit on an AC motor engine.  G

Gunrunnerjohn,

Most have BCR's but the GG-1 that kept losing it's address just might have a battery in it, though I doubt it.  I usually outfit the most difficult ones to open up with BCR's first.

That's still substantially cheaper on average than buying a new locomotive.

Not modify, upgrade from just the rectifier solution mentioned above:

1)you have 50-60 e-units lying around(or even just 1)

2)you want the simplicity & longevity of the electromechanical switch

3)you are tired of replacing the $15-$45 electronic units at regular intervals

4)you want to return your fried MTH PS loco to the tracks and get some run time in

5)you picked up a bargain MTH - Williams - K-Line - Lionel on eBay that had failed or the electronics were stripped out and you want to run it

6)you have the rectifier installed and are getting bored with single direction operation

7)many more possibilities. 

Think outside the shell!

I did not and do not advocate changing out a set that is working perfectly well to your satisfaction.  There are exceptions to this too, for display layout operations, etc., as you wish.

I bought a MTH 2-8-0 on the for sale forum

for $50 chassis, shell and motor were all intact

but the electronics had been scavenged for

another project by original owner.

I installed a bridge rectifier and run it at shows

in forward only.

I suppose if I wanted to spend another $15

I could put a elec e-unit in it for a F-N-R operation.

It was a $50 locomotive.

Take note that I said "on average."  Even though the total cost was $100 (engine $50 purchase + $50 repair) that's typically still cheaper than buying a new engine.

You meant average locomotive, then.  Not his $50 one.

I think that went without saying, yes. 

don't forget,

we are still playing with toy trains!

My two cents...  I guess one must understand that when you pay $500, $600, $700 or more for an engine, that there is a reason for this cost beyond mfr profits. Electronics. They more they cost, the more the cost to repair!!

I love postwar but barely run them anymore. I really love Legacy, but I realize when I do run into problems the cost will escalate well beyond a postwar repair.

You have to pay to play I guess...

While I sited what I call and expensive repair above it was really my the result of my doing. Still it is expensive for a toy.

But to put this in perspective I have a total of 10 combined TMCC and MTH engines. Over the past 7 years the only issue I had was the one I over filled with fluid.

In addition I certainly had enough of them short out on the track with no damage to the engine at all. So it isn't like they break at the drop of a hat.

I've cooked a couple, it's the price of admission.   I'm lucky that I can fix them as well, so it doesn't cost me nearly as much.

Most electronics in trains are minimal designed consumer electronics.  They should be robust industrial designed to handle over voltage, over amperage, and static electricity.

They would cost a bit more but stand a better chance to last.  At the prices they charge for the trains they should last longer and handle more abuse.  If they were built for kids like the 40s and 50s stuff, they would have to do much better and do more testing.

Charlie

Dream on Charlie. The high cost of today's high-end accurate trains is in due to the costs of more accurate research and die making to get precision scale trains. This was discussed in the pages of OGR magazine when they visited Sanda Kan.

Now add in paint masks, low production run numbers and parts that are unique to that particular train, which all increase the costs. There are people here who don't believe this, but the train CEO's have all said that it takes several sell out production runs of a new high end accurate train just to break even with the development and tooling costs. Not make a profit... just to break even.

Mike Wolf said at YORK this past year that every time he comes up with a new product idea, his financial manager looks at him and says "you're putting us in the hole even deeper."

It's much less costly to make a replica or a representation of a train car or engine. Even that is costly, but nearly as costly. Recall when Lionel MPC developed the High Cube box car in the 1970's and then did the Disney series which was done to help recoup the tooling costs. That was the 1970's on a car that did not have all the research and precision costs to make an accurate scale replica.

The trains of post war years were made with simple mechanical parts that were known to be robust. They were representations with simplified, not necessarily accurate details and were made in large quantity over an extended period of years (reducing costs). They very often made use of the same exact parts from one product to another. Jerry Williams admitted in his own words that the same trucks were used from one loco to another on Williams products to keep costs down.

Comparing the durability and reliability of postwar (and even MPC) trains to some of the new high-end trains is like comparing apples to oranges.

Actually modern era starter types of trains have a good track record. They have longer extended production runs, and use many of the same parts, which because of the extended production runs are time tested. The parts are simpler and robust and not as complex nor unique to that particular locomotive in most cases.

Lionel this year changed the handrails on the 0-8-0 to cast-in detail instead of the added ones. I don't mind... I think it's a good move, but there have many many complaints about it on this forum.

Going back to one of the original posts, I've got 4-4-2 Lionel steam engines with 22+ years on them and have not had a circuit board fail yet. That also goes for the lower end K-Line Alco's MP-15's and S-2's. I've only had one DC motor go bad so far. I've had to replace a smoke unit, but that is to be expected. And I had no trouble getting the correct replacement.

I don't need tiny motors with even tinier fragile gears to move the bell back and forth on my steam engines. I can use my imagination to see the bell move. Keeps the costs down and repairs too!                        

Thats actually done with a magnet and coil, $15 total for the bell with the magnet in the bottom, and the coil. Probably more cost effective (and reliable) than a smoke unit.

There sure are alot of MTH "board burnup stories". Does this have to do with the loco taking the commands through the hot, making boards more suceptible?

When you install a TVS, put it across the terminals of the transformer.  There is no "earth ground."  This will suppress any voltage spikes between the center rail and the outer rails.

You can also install the TVS right in the locomotive across the pickups and frame, the best protection you can get for individual locomotives.

Ok, I buy #1, but not the rest.  Basic electronic units are pretty robust.  Plus I can rebuild them for less in parts then the cost of new fingers and a drum for a mechanical e-unit.  G

Hows this for a wallet emptying episode....

I have been on this Great Forum for only 22 days and every time I log on someone post something I want/need

I did all my Williams locos with E-units before there was such a thing as electronic.  I can't believe how old school that all is now.

So if you have a whole fleet of such models, just put a bridge rectifier at the transformer and a polarity switch, and then you do not need a reversing device in each locomotive.  Unlike the center rail, you cannot see DC, and no one will ever know you took the cheap and easy way out.