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I love them! IMO it's really cool to see locomotives--both real and models--operating in multiple. If you don't need the extra pulling power that a full-featured, motored-version would provide, a non-powered (dummy) engine can give the impression that you're operating a MU consist without spending all the $$!
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I have them and don't think that they are a waste of money. You can get the look you want and not have to pay for extra power that you may not need. Everyone might have a different opinion but I wish MTH would still make them for theirs at least had lights and engineers when last made. Having many engines is like rolling stock but again you just don't need each one to be powered unless that is your preference.
Probably THE worst price/performance purchase out there in our hobby today. Most don't even have smoke and electro-coupler features anymore, and none produced recently have Railsounds.
If they were priced at $100-$150 tops, I'd say its worth the price for the illusion of extra power when you really don't need the power. But given you're often looking at $225+, it's basically a VERY expensive boxcar. Recently Charlie Ro had a few of the NS Heritage SD70ACe dummies on sale for $135, and that's the best price I've seen for them.
Both Legacy and DCS have great support for double- or triple-heading locomotives, so powered units seem to be a much better price/performer.
David
Two things I don't like are Dummy locomotives and traction tires.
I usually run 18-25 car trains and if one unit is not enough, just like the real ones I put on a second POWERED unit. My mainline grade is about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 percent. There is nothing that 2 powered units cannot pull on this.
Threes units seem to overwhelm the size of the train, so I don't do that very often. I do have a an A-B-A set of sharks that I run on a coal train and I have an A-B-A set of Alco PAs and the b-unit is the only dummy I own. I sometimes run that as a set but most times I run only the two powered units.
Good morning
No dummies here !! I love large locomotive consists !!! All pulling,all sound, and smoke.
And no darn rubber tires!!!!
Clem k
I like having unpowered units as they often are half the price of power units.
When I had limited my trains to 10-12 cars, dummies work quite well. However, as I expand the layout, I find myself moving to longer and/or heavier trains. thus, I find myself needing to buy a couple of powered units to run with my powered engines.
This is also moving me towards upgrading my layout from conventional to TMCC. Downside is more cost. The upside, however, is that with command I could run my engines more realistically, with single, powered engines coming through the turntable, then MU'ing them up and connecting them to a string of cars!
Jim
For the most part, I like the look of paired locomotives. Dummies are the way to go, unless you want to run multiple motors. I really don't care for the high cost however.
I double-head a lot of my trains w/ engine + dummy. They looks great. Also, the yare good on sidings.
I'd love to get some dummy steam to park here and there.
I love dummy engines and have quite a few of them. My layout is flat and I usually run 14 feet trains long trains. I don't need the extra power but I think a single engine doesn't look right. So why spend twice the amount for a powered unit?
Art
I love dummy units, however, lately they've become more pricey and more dumb, i.e. devoid of lighting and the rare smoker.
Best to pick them up used, but very functional IMHO. Currently looking for used Milwaukee Road SD40-2s
Stack
My roster went from three dummies to one. One was sold and one was converted to a powered unit.
Not intended as a big negative, but IMHO dummies are just dead-weight. While I like the look of multiple unit consists, I really prefer having the power to go along with it.
Gilly
For me dummies are only worth it up to about $150. For $250 or so that Lionel is charging now, its not worth it. Might as well pony up the extra money for a powered unit.
I got the recently-tooled MTH dash-8 dummy on ebay for only $100, and that includes lights with a toggle switch. One of my best ebay buys ever, and the detail on it is amazing for the price.
1) They will not gripe no matter which direction, they are pointed. Any horizontal travel
is classified, as operator error.
2) They can be real dumb, by not providing, any lighting, or smoke, pretty much just sitting there. (Lionel)
3). They can have some character , either by lights or smoke, (MTH.)
All of mine obey the #1 primary objective, and then I have 1 of each style of aspect 2 and 3.
The only dummy on my railroad is the one holding the throttle...
Rusty
All of my MTH Premier diesel engines(33 engines) are powered except for 3 NS Heritage dummy engines. I'm planning on purchasing ALL of the NS Heritage engines. I already have 5 NS Heritage engines that are powered. The other 12 NS Heritage engines will be dummies.
I bought a dummy DDA40X to go with my first powered version, for the look of "extra horsepower"
But it was such a boat anchor that I sought to buy another powered DDA40X to help schlep it around.
Now it's a three unit monster that I call my "Tim Allen" consist (insert assorted grunting noises)
---PCJ
Probably THE worst price/performance purchase out there in our hobby today. Most don't even have smoke and electro-coupler features anymore, and none produced recently have Railsounds.
I agree, no operating coupler means you can't switch or drop cars. If you put the dummy in the "lead" you have no headlights at the front of the train.
They should at least offer operating lights and couplers. Sound would be a bonus.
I DO like the unpowered A and B of my Lionel A-B-A set because both have operating couplers, directional lighting, and even smoke. You can drop the unpowered A or B and pull a train in the same manner.
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time to send them back to school, so they can become "smart" locomotives!!
For GP's or second generation locomotives and newer, operating a single unit can be fairly prototypical. In addition to seeing photos of PRR and Chessie System trains pulled by a single engine; while viewing the Rochelle web cam, I have also seen current day UP intermodal trains pulled by a single unit.
Curt
I'm for them, I have a few and there are a few I would like to have that were not made. Around where I live you don't see single engines pulling a train other than switchers within industrial complexes or train yards. I basicly don't need the pulling power, so why pay for a second engine but for the price a dummy costs today they should include smoke and railsounds.
That depends on the manufacturer of the dummy. I have the two powered C&O Alco "high nose" Alligator Trainman Line models from Atlas O. Although great looking, after weathering, being Trainman Line, they have no lights, no crew, and no smoke. I the purchased an Atlas O dummy GP7/9 in the early C&O styling, as a lead unit, since the Atlas O dummies have few in the cab, and all sorts of lights with switches to select exactly which lights one desires. The whole consist looks great when hauling the C&O coal train.
The dummy I have is a kitbashed steam dummy, with cab covering boiler to disguise
it from horses.
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I the purchased an Atlas O dummy GP7/9 in the early C&O styling, as a lead unit, since the Atlas O dummies have few in the cab, and all sorts of lights with switches to select exactly which lights one desires. The whole consist looks great when hauling the C&O coal train.
I stand corrected, I guess its just the " dummies from Lionel" that are lacking. HMMM, I think theres a joke in there somewhere
I enjoy making my double-header up. I have two GP9's, so if I'm operating them, I like to make up my "train" with the two engines. In fact, that's the most fun. Starting up "engine" A and then "engine" B (going through the start-up sequence of each), then joining them to form a "train". I have TMCC and I enjoy operation more than running.
So, for me at least, dummy engines aren't much fun. (disclaimer: If I had F-units, I'd most likely have dummies, especially if they were "B" units.)
I agree that dummy engines are too expensive. You might as well purchase a powered unit unless you can find a great deal.
I have some sets that came with dummy units. These are mostly A-B-A configurations. I usually only run them as A-A and the dummy stays in the box.
I have one GP-7 dummy. I like to run it as a mid train helper or at the end of the train. I find that it is easier to put a dummy unit at the end of a train than a powered unit. I haven't had any luck getting either MTH or TMCC engines to satisfactorily consist together when the engines are separated by 10 or more cars.
Joe
You will be paying a very high price for a piece of empty plastic with wheels. I would pay the higher amount knowing that I now have a powered second engine that can do both run in a latch up or run it independent of the other one.
Most of us have them. When you buy F unit sets from the major manufacturers, the dummy units come along for the ride. So I have several and like them. I typically run and ABBA combo with two powered units.
This topic comes up often, and I lament the fact that the manufacturers have moved away from producing dummy units. But they do solve many issues:
1. Can operate consists built of Atlas/Lionel/Weaver powered units with MTH dummy units and vice versa
2. Two powered units is usually plenty and often one is enough. Dummies let you build consists of 3 or 4 engines without huge power requirements.
3. A good way to simulate a consist built with an engine from a foreign road mixed in with power from the home road
I have many dummy units, and love having them. At first, the Railking ones could be had for as little as $120 (street price), and Premier/Lionel/Atlas for $145-$175. The factor that started to drive up the price was when some dummies (pun intended!) started insisting that MTH install lights in their dummy units, claiming that it would only add a few bucks. It didn't because MTH also put in a constant voltage lighting circuit. Then prices for dummy units steadily started to climb. Next were requests for smoke and sound. Well heck, at that point, all that's missing are the motors which only cost a few more bucks to install.
And I agree, at $250, a dummy unit is not a good value. Dummy units should be just that...dummies, with no lights, smoke, or electronics. That would help keep the cost down. And if you don't like em, don't buy em. But in talking to the manufacturers, I don't think we will see dummy units anymore aside from those meant for an ABBA consist such as F units or FA's.
Just my take on things after many years in this hobby and after acquiring many non-powered units.
I never understood why someone didn't make dummy steam locomotives.
When I was into HO, Model Power made a nice 2-6-0 if memory serves which had all the running gear in the tender.
The loco itself only had lights. I knew of a guy who bought three of them, gutted the tender drive, then turned them all into nice dummy units with head lights. If I recall, he got them at a model train show and they didn't cost all that much.
I'm perfectly happy with dummies unless the powered units can't pull the train. That seldom happens. A dummy is less costly, if not a lot less, and, if you run conventionally, like me, you avoid any hassles with the e-units of the multiple powered units getting un-synchronized.
I have the recent MTh RK NW-2 and calf, which is un-powered. Its a good example. The powered unit pulls all the load I want of it - keeps things simple.
I used to not like dummies, but I've come to terms with them and now I have several. As has been pointed out, the pulling power of recent diesels is such that you don't need three or four powered units unless you are running 100 cars. A powered pair will easily pull 50 cars, but a train that long looks better with four units than two. So, adding a dummy or two improves the appearance without adding the cost and breakdown potential of a powered unit. Also, adding powered units to a TMCC consist often means you have to calibrate the threshold settings on each unit, which can be a hassle. It's a lot easier to calibrate two units than four. (Of course, this only applies to independent units, not to tether-connected sets.) From my point of view the only drawback to a dummy is the lack of smoke, and I don't run the smoke units on my diesels that much anyway. I would like to see the manufacturers add smoke to dummy B units that are part of a tethered set.
The straight skinny on non operating locomotives.
First the expense. If one needs to spend over $150 dollars or more for a non operating locomotive, then it is, in my opinion, not worth the cost. Mind as well buy a fully functioning like locomotive with a different road name or board number.
Secondly. Most non operating locomotives do not, I say again, do not come with all the bells and whistles that their fully operational counterparts do come with. Lights, smoke and bells are not that common. Though, I have owned several MTH non operating locomotives that were smokers and had lights and were actually equally as heavy as the real deal.
Thirdly. Most locomotives today by MTH or Lionel are quite capable of pulling loads of cars by themselves, but this is hardly prototypical. On my layout (though not right now), I plan on having three power on point modern locomotives for that realistic look. Do I really need all that power? No, but I am after a more or less prototypical look.
Lastly. Non operating locomotives are pretty cool in that they require no real maintenance to keep them running. Save for lights and possibly a bad smoke unit, they require nothing else. That means they can be quite useful as far as making a train layout/consist look even more realistic. Thus really cool. I had a Santa Fe Dash 8 that was a non operating locomotive. She smoked real nice and the lights, including the ditch lights, operated as they should, but what was really nice was, how she looked when I lashed her up with another operating locomotive.
The bottom line is choice!
Pete