Thoughts on Lionel 21' passenger cars?

@Sunrise Special posted:

I'm considering purchasing Lionel 21' passenger cars...what are your thoughts? I know they run on 0-54...but do they need a much larger radius to look decent? Do they look awesome? or are they just too massive?

Thanks,

Sunrise

Let me make this simple,……..it’s your railroad. You answered your own question “they look awesome “  people will have all different opinions, yours is the one that counts. Enjoy them.

Sunrise,

Personally I prefer 18” passenger cars. Currently all Lionel’s streamlined passenger cars are 21” but they did produce 18”  cars in the past mostly in aluminum. They still produce 18” heavyweight cars too. You may also want to look at K-Line 18” cars some are currently in the buy/sell forum in streamlined, heavy weight etc. They made all lengths of passenger cars make sure you look at their last produced cars so you get detailed interiors and passengers. I would not go smaller than 15” which also would work with you curves and still be scale. Lastly MTH produces 18” passenger cars in their premium line. Their cars are generic but their painting is terrific and in many road names. If cost is an issue you can look at Railking’ s 15”  cars too. Good luck

JohnB

@Sunrise Special posted:

I'm considering purchasing Lionel 21' passenger cars...what are your thoughts? I know they run on 0-54...but do they need a much larger radius to look decent?

In my opinion, yes.

Do they look awesome?

In my opinion yes, but then that depends on your layout. Never mind how they "look", but will they REALLY negotiate your curves, what with their hang-over into your structures & scenery.

or are they just too massive?

Again, THAT depends on your layout.

Thanks,

Sunrise

@Sunrise Special posted:

I'm considering purchasing Lionel 21' passenger cars...what are your thoughts? I know they run on 0-54...but do they need a much larger radius to look decent? Do they look awesome? or are they just too massive?

Thanks,

Sunrise

I have them and I'm not a big fan. The cars are heavy. A consist of them is very heavy and springy. The kinematic couplers are somewhat flimsy and often decouple or cause derailment when pulled apart on curves. You will find yourself needing to use cable ties to tie the couplers shut. The cars often contact eachother on the corners of the cars as they go around a corner putting a derailment force on the wheels. The cars are not trustworthy on O-72 and would be even worse on O-54. Also if you have to go in reverse around the curves it is a nightmare since the cars are jammed together and derailments are almost guaranteed in curves. I also have 18" passenger cars with kinematic couplers and they are much better, but because of the kinematic couplers not perfect either. The 21" cars do look nice but the decouplings and derailments are a negative on the fun factor. Decoupled cars pose a hazard if they are not noticed, with potential for damage. 21" cars by Lionel do not come with passengers either because the assumption is that the car bodies are fairly easy to remove and so you can add your own passenger figures. The cars are expensive and the cost of passengers are an added expense.

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

I have them and I'm not a big fan. The cars are heavy. A consist of them is very heavy and springy. The kinematic couplers are somewhat flimsy and often decouple or cause derailment when pulled apart on curves. You will find yourself needing to use cable ties to tie the couplers shut. The cars often contact eachother on the corners of the cars as they go around a corner putting a derailment force on the wheels. The cars are not trustworthy on O-72 and would be even worse on O-54. Also if you have to go in reverse around the curves it is a nightmare since the cars are jammed together and derailments are almost guaranteed in curves. I also have 18" passenger cars with kinematic couplers and they are much better, but because of the kinematic couplers not perfect either. The 21" cars do look nice but the decouplings and derailments are a negative on the fun factor. Decoupled cars pose a hazard if they are not noticed, with potential for damage. 21" cars by Lionel do not come with passengers either because the assumption is that the car bodies are fairly easy to remove and so you can add your own passenger figures. The cars are expensive and the cost of passengers are an added expense.

Dave,

Thanks for a detailed explanation! I did pre-order the Midnight Flyer 4 pack to go with the Halloween PA set since it seemed appropriate and unique to those PAs.

Thanks again!

Craig

I have 24 of the Lionel 21" cars and I personally enjoy them.  I only purchased one set new, and the rest came at very favorable prices second hand.  They are good filler cars on several of my trains in Amtrak Phase I, Phase III, and Santa Fe. 

Having said that, they would overhang quite a bit on 0-54 curves.  They overhang on 0-72 curves noticeably too, but that doesn't bother me as much as a short car.  This is just my opinion on passenger cars and not everyone's.  They are generic in configuration but if you are not looking for a specific prototype, that may not be an issue.  I don't find the cars to be overly heavy compared to a comparable 21" aluminum car.  I do not run these cars as full sets and tend to mix them with K-Line, GGD, and other scale length cars so I can't speak first-hand how a full consist of them operate in a train. 

As everyone else has stated, if you enjoy them that is all that matters.

They look fine as long as your not pushing them  The kinematic coupler only like to be pulled

Sunrise;

This comes up every so often… I have a couple of sets of 21” passenger cars (Lionel and Atlas). I really like the cars and, fortunately, I’m no rivet counter, so things like overhang don’t really bother me too much, especially when the cars get moving. I have O-72 an O-84 curves. Here is a link to a post I added a couple of years ago with some overhead shots of some Lionel cars on the 2 radius curves - hope this helps.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/157...6#158111058644238286

@Apples55 posted:

Sunrise;

This comes up every so often… I have a couple of sets of 21” passenger cars (Lionel and Atlas). I really like the cars and, fortunately, I’m no rivet counter, so things like overhang don’t really bother me too much, especially when the cars get moving. I have O-72 an O-84 curves. Here is a link to a post I added a couple of years ago with some overhead shots of some Lionel cars on the 2 radius curves - hope this helps.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/157...6#158111058644238286

Paul,

Thanks!  Very helpful!!

Sunrise