THOUGHTS ON THE LIONEL LEGACY UP 4-12-2

Alex....

While I don't have the Lionel version, I do have the MTH model.  So, I can't really comment directly concerning your question....BUT.....it is a beautiful model.  I think there was a comparison between all models that have been produced here on the forum not too long ago.  Each model had some pluses and minuses but all in all, the model itself, no matter who produced it, is very impressive.  I enjoy running mine and really like the third operating valve.  Thanks for posting the great photos and video!

Alan

Super engine Alex, you will like it very much. Anyone who has a liking for big steam will appreciate having this one.

It became one of my favorites. Sounds great, looks all business and will pull anything you can throw at it. Only downside is that its incredibly tempermental with bad trackage. Not so much the radius (but I doubt it would do less than O72), but any undulations, especially in a curve, stand the chance to give it a fit, because of the long rigid wheelbase. If you're track is up to it, its a keeper for sure.

Alex

Kevin at the club has the other 4-12-2 not the 8000 but I cannot remember the number. He really likes it. The sounds and smoke are terrific. He is going to double head it with his Vision Challanger. Boy is that a show he will run it this weekend at our open house.

Glad you like yours

JohnB

Yes I have it and its terrific!

Not completely happy on 0-72 turnouts an, yes, prone to derailing on any uneven track. But apart from that - great!

That is quite the whistle on this model!  I also like the original style tender lettering compared to the first model which applied late steam era lettering to a model from an earlier era in railroading history.

Alex,I have #9004 (the later UP scheme) and love it, Great sound,smoke,and runs great.I love the 3 cylinder chuffing. 

IMO if your a UP fan it's a must have, and you cant go wrong with any of the schemes even the fantasy Greyhound scheme is sharp.

Like JohnB said I'll be double heading it with my Challenger at our open house this weekend and it should be fun. The  chuffing with the 9000 and Challenger together really sound cool.

Enjoy it!

A few points to consider:

1) the valve gear for the center cylinder is non functional. Both the Sunset/3rd Rail and MTH models have moving Griesley valve gear.

2) Nice whistle, but not the correct UP Star Brass freight chime whistle.

3) Something about the 3-cylinder exhaust sound just doesn't right. Hard to explain unless one has actually heard a real 3-cylinder steam locomotive.

Hi guys,

Thanks to all for the comments, input and great info !!!!!!!!

Hot Water, I want to ask you a couple of questions

Are the marker lights on top of the tender prototypical ?

What's the Griesley valve gear, and where is it located ?

Thanks again,

Alex

 It's located here (circled).

It's actually called a Gresley valve gear, named after its inventor Nigel Gresley who was a mechanical engineer for the London and North Eastern Railway.  Sometimes it's also called a Gresley-Holcroft valve gear, to acknowledge fellow mechanical engineer Harold Holcroft who had a significant role in helping to develop it.  UP had to license it in order to use the technology on their 9000 series locomotives.  It's what operates the 3rd Cylinder (you can see the cylinder's silver piston cover under the smokebox, right behind the Gresley valve gear).

It's unfortunate that Lionel didn't make it operational like the MTH and 3rd Rail models.

Nice engine Alex!

I have been torn between the UP 4-12-2 and the recently released Lionel UP H-7 2-8-8-2. I have a string of 17 PFE reefers that need a UP steamer.

I have read articles and watched videos here on the forum of the UP 9000 on O 72 curves and the overhang was significant. I have Gargraves sectional 0 96  curves on the two loops of my layout. The Lionel Erie Pacific(the one you recently fixed for me) with its long wheel base found imperfections in my curved track work which were undetected by my Mikado’s, Hudsons, Mohawks and Northern type locomotive. I will probably end up with the H7.

The UP 9000 is a great looking engine, and it will catch the attention of visitors to your train room! I am sure you will enjoy it.

Richard

Hi John, and Richard thanks for the comments and info.

John, I can't seem to open that icon you posted. It might be my old computer.

Thanks,

Alex

The 3rd cylinder chuffing to me is the best feature on this engine, but it is no doubt an excellent puller. Definitely worth keeping. I don't own one yet, but that's another story...

BTW Alex, I noticed you have a few Lionel Trains Inc. steamers on your roster - I.E. 18009 NYC Mohawk and 18018 Southern Mikado. Are you keeping these conventional or have you upgraded them to Command Control?

Alex,

Yeah I noticed that, don't know what happened as it was working fine earlier, but I fixed it now in the original post.

The Gresley gear is so trivial to make work - I am surprised that they forgot this little detail.  On the other hand, one doesn't see it when watching a moving model.  I have three models with Gresley gear, and outside of bench tests do not remember watching it move.  It is difficult to build, but once the pieces are fabricated it is just too easy to make it wiggle prototypically.  The center rod is a bit more difficult - I just put an eccentric on the second axle.

Some day I shall have to meet John K - I just cannot stand the parking problems at the museum, so I deal with them from afar.

I like mine a lot but it is disconcerting to watch the end drivers roll so far off the rails at times on 72" and even 84" curves. Still, once I got over that it is a great loco, with all the usual Legacy quality and features.  The sound of three cylinders (or whatever it does) is different and more complex sounding than normal and certainly interesting, it has a good whistle whether the correct one or not (whistles are just not that important to me) and it looks really good.  And, of course, its UP!!!!!

The fact that the center valve gear doesn't operate?  I've never noticed one way or the other - but I'd prefer it did not: less to go wrong in places where it would be really difficult to for me to fix.

Alex, I have the MTH version and like it very much. Sometimes we get very nit picky between manufacturers. IMO, a great engine either way. Enjoy it.

Gerry

Hi guys, Thanks Thomas, John, bob2, Lee, and Gerry for the great info and input.

  John now I see what the Gresley gear is. I was wondering what that mechanism was, very interesting.

Mikado 4501, those engine's aren't mine, I've added ERR command control to them

They run absolutely fantastic. I'm also going to be adding ERR command control

to a post war engine for someone in the near future.

Thanks,

Alex

I too have the legacy #9000. Only the the first and fifth wheels are flanged so for me it never really has problems with O-72 radius curves although it bounces pretty good over Lionel O-72 switches.. What I do love about it is its unique three cylinder "SOUND". Better yet, the whistle is way back at the cab so smoke is easily visible and spotted.

#9000 fits in perfectly with the BigBoy, Challenger & FEF. 

Not sure about the MTH or 3rd rail version, but if you're a rivet counter, the Lionel #9000 has prototypical operating third cylinder gearing underside between the rollers

Joe.

You can compare both models to the real thing

I am with you, I really want an H7, it is the only locomotive I can think about since it was announced.  It would look fantastic with my Big Boy or VL Challenger.

I am lucky enough to have the older TMCC #9000, even though it is not Legacy, I still love it.  The videos on YouTube of the Legacy #9000 are making me wish I would have bought one, but I can't justify it with already owning the older one. There is only so much $ for trains in my budget, want that H7 instead of something I already own similar.

The Legacy 9000 is beautiful, don't see how you could go wrong with any of the nice engines being produced today by all the manufacturers.

Wow! Great engine Alex!!! Terrific video as well.