Tinplate photos 📸 and videos 📽

I don't have much in the way of figurines in my collection , and the 4 I do have all came as part of other items I have scored lol .. that said they probably now deserve an airing in the thread and maybe some kind folk here will be able to put a name and or date to them

First up I bought a Triang Minic ambulance that came with the figures seen with it ...

And many years ago I bought a completly bespoke HO scale Steam engine ... and YES it runs .. Tiny but a BEAST lol ...the fellow who made it in the dim dark past in the UK was a very clever man ... the wire out the back is actually the wick for the flame in the boiler ... originally it had a wee tender which contained spirit the wick was encased in an indian rubber tube which plugged into the tender body to draw fuel via gravity and  capilliary action .. sadly it was lost to time , but the principle still works ... I test fired it with a length of silicone tubing slid over the old rubber and bent up to hold the spirit in a vertical manner behind the loco .

I think the pensive "operator" of this strange beast with his jaunty hat and pipe actually makes it !

I imagine in his former life he was perhaps intended as a farmer leaning on a fence watching his sheep dogs do their business .. but hes a perfect locoman now!

That thing is awesome. Made my day seeing that

.

@Fatman posted:

First up I bought a Triang Minic ambulance that came with the figures seen with it ...

And many years ago I bought a completly bespoke HO scale Steam engine ... and YES it runs ..

That HO steam engine is amazing. You certainly have eclectic taste. I enjoy your wide range of collecting interests....you’ve certainly shown me many facets of this hobby, manufacturers and their goods, that I never knew existed. Keep up the hunt and bringing joy to yourself and the many others following this thread.

Thanks for the kind words Rich and Gerry ...

And in keeping with the eclectic description applied , my man in the Netherlands has purchased a new Seki locomotive he found and has decided to part fund it by gracefully letting go of a couple of Stella Tinplate Clockwork trains we found and he bought a few weeks ago

Lucky for him , super lucky for me !

Stella is a little known Czechoslovakian toy manufacturer these days but in the past it was a grand manufacturer of many items . Based in the small town of Krnsko , which even today has a population of a little over 500 ... but back in 1890 Josef Kotek started a small workshop that made childrens rifles , toys and gardening tools .... succeeding their father 10 years later Ladislav and Frantisek Kotek built the business into a larger factory , and showing just how important "Toys" can be the family built a chapel over a spring in the top of the mountainside overlooking Krnsko, and used his success in business to set up fresh water resources to each house in Vystrykov and even sewerage .. in fact this system was in place right up until 1970 when it was finally replaced by a state run system ... in time they even created hydroelectricity and steam sawmills in the district in the 1920's ... The Kotek family truly believed in "Paying it forward " and were highly regarded ... all from " "toys"

In the second world war the factory was stripped by the Germans and turned over to arms production and building aircraft components .. after the war the factory reverted back to making some toys , and these trains were one of them .... they also continued making childrens rifles and weapons .. in fact the reknowned CZ air rifles was their product

Much more interesting history on this firm can be found here

https://translate.google.com/t...osti/ladislav-kotek/

As you will see however there is no mention of toy trains lol .. but yes , yes they made them , and here is the proof ... they are Post war C. late 40's early 50's .

Now the astute member here will see that there are indeed two different locos in the above photos .. I am reserving the complete one ( with siderods and cylinders etc) and all three carriages  but if you want the other incomplete loco ( which still runs fine I am told) , keep an eye out on German eBay as it might end up there at a very low starting price !

Dont say you weren't tipped off LOL!!

Fatman:  THANK YOU for the information on Stella and the background on the firm.  As you might guess, out here on the "frontier" I had never heard of Stella and was fascinated by the history and pictures of your new train.  Thanks a lot again for the information

Don

Never rains but it pours !

My man in the Nedderlands has been tempting me with such goodies ....

Soooo adding to the next shipment is ...

Some Fleischmann tankers .. one with brake cab one without ...

And a Passenger coach and baggage car ... again Fleischmann

Plus a couple of early post war HWN's ... open wagon and a baggage missing a set of wheels ( I have some here as spares )

However locally I made an amazing find on a clockwork motor made by Robilt , a firm here which made tin trains after WWII and are probably one of the major collecting marques in Australia ... although this motor has little to do with trains, but certainly could be put to use powering accesories ...

The seller listed this motor as Meccano ... but it wasnt

The South Australian firm of Ezy-Bilt manufactured a Meccano/Erector type set after the war and into the mid 50's ... They contracted Robilt to supply motors for an "advanced" accessory , I do not know how many were built , but I suspect not too many as they would have been rather costly in the day , and with Hornby etc being available most stores would have carried them for purchase noticibly cheaper I would think ... so it is "Sort of " a copy of a Hornby No2 Reversing Clockwork motor , but as you can see production of them never got past the "Hand Assembled " phase using aluminium C-tube peened over as rivets

Hornby

Robilt .. as you can see ... VERRRRRRY different ! on the hornby all the controll arms are inside the plates .. on the Robilt it is all controlled from outside the plates .

The most amazing thing is it has the ORIGINAL key!  .. and yes its the same they used for their trains .. and rare as rocking horse poo .. because most get lost , or misplaced , thrown out or forgotten about .... Very few Robilt locos ever come with an original key on the second hand market .

And some days the stars just align ... because not 2 hours after I scored that motor .... a listing for 8 toy keys for $25 with shipping included came up ... and my eyes looked immediately to the top left big key ...

They looked at it for 1.2 seconds before my fingers told them to nick off and slammed the Buy it Now !  LOL!

Yep you guessed it ANOTHER Robilt key ... which is worth about 8 times the bid alone ... Sometimes a little bit of magic pops into your day ... and THIS was a good one .. a great one even

So my humble beat up little Robilt loco .. now has a key as well !

Oh and stay tuned folks !!! .. because Fatman and his trusty companion Dutchboy are working on another history lesson and acquisition as I type ... no spoiler just yet (cough Tippco..Cough) , but the minute the deal is done .....

These early Marklin gauge 1 cars have perforated cast iron wheels and Type 3 loop and hook couplers, ca. 1903. The video shows them pulled by the No. 11111 Marklin Storchenbein re-issue of 1999, modified from clockwork to DC power.

Fatman:  Again, you identify a builder, which you mention was very popular in Australia,especially among collectors..."Robilt" which I had never heard of before...thank you for your continuing flow of information on brands and manufacturers that are very uncommon here in the US.  Here are a couple of complementary cars to the German makes.

In the category of how much many German makes resemble each other, here is a Bub tanker from 1934-39,

Here is another HWN Red Baggage Car from the 1950's

Best wishes and thanks again for the mention and description of Robilt.

Don

@Fatman  @Don McErlean

I really like those tank cars with the little brakeman cab.

Sounds like you had a good day FM.  It pays to have a sharp eye.

Thanks again for the kind words fellows

@G-Man24 I think a love of history and a thirst for knowledge drives my "eye" a little ... every now and then something I see gives me a little tingle at the back of my neck , and it usually turns out to be the force to make me turn over every rock I can find until I get at least some idea of what it is I am looking at ...Not uncoincidental that tingle often alerts me to the "rocking horse poo" finds ...

@Don McErlean and all ... Aussie had a few train manufacturers in O gauge , and quite a few cottage industry exercises over the years , we might have been a small country population wise , but we have always punched above our weight when it comes to "Having a go " but the three bigger concerns that took off in Australia after WWII  were Ferris , Robilt , and Maurlyn . There were many other smaller concerns over the years and it is thought there were over 30 different concerns from after WWI to the late 60's ... I admit to not being very Aussie centric on these smaller concerns , mainly because the vast majority of those toys are in collectors hands these days and my wallet simply cant compete We also had live steam with brands like Scorpion and Renown . Most of these manufacturers had a dual business and the "toys" were just a sideline to bring in some extra bucks in times of prosperity . Maurlyn made many pressed metal items for industry ( and a fair share of pressed steel cars and trucks ) Ferris was an electrical company making radios and other electronics , Robilt was making machinery and indeed continued to do after the Train side of things died in the 60's .

But Robilt , O Gauge House , Maurlyn and Ferris were the "Big Boys " in the boom years

I have several Maurlyn's and some Robilt that I am proud to have , but yet to score a Ferris ... The Ferris offerings are easily identifiable and have prominent branding , so its very rare to find someone advertising it as unknown and collectors find them easily ( and expensively lol )

So here is My Aussie Contingent ... its very important to realise that quite often these toys had no primer or basecoat applied , and us Aussie kids are rough on our toys , so pristine is VERY rare indeed .. In fact the Maurlyn ones were made out of pressed Aluminium , and scratched and bent easily .

Robilt wagons and track ( see what I mean about rough lol )

Robilt tender .. this is in REALLY good original condition , you can see the original hand pinstripes and waterslides are still pretty ok ... normally these flake off over time and little fingers .

Underneath of the Robilt 0-4-0 loco you have seen up there ^^^ in the thread ... A quality mechanism very heavy duty , like I said machinery was Robilts first priority .. They didn't scrimp when it came to sideplate thickness, gears and cogs!

Robilt also did other locomotives like a 4-4-0 but they are really hard to find , also in electric versions as well as clockwork  ( as did Maurlyn, Ferris were electric from the get go )

I dont have any Robilt electric ( one day ) but I do have a controller/transformer

Here is one of my Maurlyns ... this one is missing its front bogie assembly and needs some straightening up front

And with its tender and carriage

However all is not lost as I have two other loco's which can complete it

And another spare set , which is one of the first production , crudely painted in reality from the factory ( and a little worse for wear cosmetically )

As I said I dont have any Ferris ( yet) but I will include a set taken from the National Museum for reference

A very brief history can be found here

https://www.nma.gov.au/explore...cdonald-model-trains it also mentions Bruce McDonalds book "Spring Spark and Steam " which is a history of Australian Model Trains ... I am yet to get one but it comes highly recommended and it is on my " Must Get " list , but you all know how I love a bargain lol so keep hoping to find it cheep!

FM is this Meccano No2 motor in your collection? It's pretty neat. I'm a sucker for that old crackle finish paint,  you could spray that stuff on a discarded pizza box and I would buy it !

I ,like the  others, look forward to your posts. Such an eclectic array I always see something new (old) and interesting. When there are no new posts I go back and look at old posts. That's the good thing about being a newb to the forum there is a whole archive of posts I have yet to read.

Most time  I don't even know what I'm looking at,  but being a former machinist I take great pleasure in studying the way things were made and imagining what it must have been like to work in those old factories. I'm far more impressed with those ancient stampings and castings that came from hand made tooling and line shaft driven machinery than I am with a modern offering produced with modern manufacturing techniques. Those old toys have a soul to them.

Oh and earlier I hinted at a "Big Find" coming from Europe with the help of Dutchboy , Fatmans trusty companion!

Well he came thru with the goods !

Not so much "train " orientated but falling in my other wheelhouse of vintage kinetic motors , I have shared the Hess Dynamobil before but will include a pic again for reference here ... These items were made in the early 1900's to 30's as an alternative to having your kid head off into the sitting room with a bottle of alcohol and a box of matches to play with a steam engine lol ... much less chance of burning your house to the ground!

They are basicaly a highly geared weighty flywheel which when spun up to speed used the stored inertia to drive steam accessories for a good minute or two after you spun it up ... plus they make a satisfying grrrrrrRRRRRRRRRR.. WHOOOOOOOOOoooooo as they cycle up and wind down

Hess dynamobil

You wind the crank , get it spinning as hard as you can then you can cut in the pulley drive with the lever to transfer the energy to any toy that can be operated by a spring belt ...Magic ! I have a little Carette windmill I power with it .

So Kinda?? Train related as it could sit on any layout lol ...

So to the big reveal !!!

OK ...so Hess went the way of many German toy companies in Nuremburg with the rise of the Nazi's , falling foul of Hitlers "Nuremburg " laws which, when enacted, basically made the German Jewish population stateless by removing their rights as citizens , which in turn meant they could no longer own and operate business's properly compared to "German" citizens ... Hess folded in 1937 and Tipp & Co bought out the tooling etc in a fire sale ...

Tipp & Co then released their own version of the Dynamobil .. the Tippmobil ( how original lol )

Advertised in their 1937 catalogue , but when war was looming, Tipp & Co as the poster child for good little German Toy  Manufacturers then concentrated on making toys of German War vehicles , and the Tippmobil was forgotten ... Thats probably a bit harsh on Messers Tipp & Co as there were indeed one of Germany's finest tin toy makers long before the war .

Ladies and Gennermannnns I preeeeesent to youuuuu..

The Tippmobil!

Mega HUGE props to Dutchboy for finding this on a local Netherlands buy and sell site and alerting me to its existence ... as this was a huge find for me , and the seller did not know its history either and lets just say it was purchased for 1/10th of the only other one I have seen for sale ..errr currently on ebay

A mark of the man I am proud to call my friend is that HE found it , alerted me , purchased it for me with money I transferred to him at exactly the advertised price , and will ship it to me along with the other stuff I have bought from him when we have a full box ... He could have sooo easily bought it , marked it up 500% and then said "Look what I have got ! " knowing full well I would be interested still ( he Bought me a Hess one in the same manner ) A true Gentleman and a friend .

https://www.hesstintoys.com/dyna9.html  I became aware of the Tipp & Co variant thru my research on Hess Dynamobils which pointed me to this marvelous site

Thank you DutchBoy ! ( he must remain completely anonymous due to his work , but he gets full credit as best I can )

In the early 80’s the Canadian Division of TTOS began issuing one STD Gauge club car per year made by McCoy. Also available was a beautiful 4-4-0 steamer of which only about 65 were produced. Here are photos of them.

Steve

@G-Man24  You Caught me lol .. I have exactly the same motor with all the paperwork box and key in my collection but was lazy and used a web pic lol!

We were cross posting as I was dropping that behemoth of a post above

I also have 3 of the smaller Magic motors from meccano .. like you the appeal of these things is in the ingenuity and craftsman ship shown in older toys and items ... Mass produced means cheap which is great , but it does not feed the soul

Meccano early on 1920-24 I think by memory used motors made by Marklin in Germany to power their sets .

Early Meccano motors

a catalogue of later meccano motors

@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

In the early 80’s the Canadian Division of TTOS began issuing one STD Gauge club car per year made by McCoy. Also available was a beautiful 4-4-0 steamer of which only about 65 were produced. Here are photos of them.

Steve

This is a beautiful train! Thank you for sharing!

No new find this week, just take some time to run an all original JEP train from around 1955. The famous CC loco was in her time the world fastest loco. Sorry for the tracks which are MTH ones....

There will be some new things next week du to a recent buy of goodies....

Have a nice weekend,  Daniel

Greetings friends,

Just had my second Covid 19 vaccine shot with no ill effects.  Luck seems to be with me. And to top it off, just received a Kibri 48-2 large Stellewerke with electric signals.  The seller is also a great craftsman and made a replacement roof which looks great.  Take a look at the photos and see the contrast with the equally big Hornby signal gantry.

Lew Schneider

Great shots of the layout, Lew. What's the small green building on an orange base just behind the Hornby signal bridge in the third photo? Looks interesting. Nice looking luffa trees, too!

PD

Hi everyone...Lewrail I admit to being jealous, not because of your layout (which is fabulous) but because you have apparently cracked the code on getting the vaccine.  Wife and I , both in our 70's, have been told we are on the waiting list to start and we are around # 30,000! Why?  - NO MEDICINE is arriving in our area.

OK so we just have to stay indoors longer - which means more train time so there is a silver lining somewhere (LOL).  Anyway Lewrail, great signal bridge and the prewar Hornby signal bridge is fabulous.  Daniel, love the JEP train, carpet or not !

Today I am posting a little out of my normal range (Lionel, AF, and Marx) to show some of the "fun" size trains I recently acquired.  These are from METTOY in the United Kingdon and are from the early postwar era, 1949-1954 (or so).  The station is the # 5617 and was made with this lithography from 1949 until (about) 1954 - at least that is where I lose any picture of it in the catalog pictures that I have.

Here is the METTOY "Joytown" station and platform. This was issued post war for the first time in 1949 and the station was the same as the prewar version BUT the lithography was entirely new. 

Here a METTOY freight train passes by.  The rolling stock pictured also dates from 1949-1951 (note the blue car is not original just a convenient load).  These are about the size of Hornby M0 rolling stock - O gauge but rather small in size.  You will note that I have not pictured a METTOY engine, that is because at this point such motive power still eludes me...but I am hunting!

Here is a close up of the lithograph design on the post war 5617 station.  This is a bit of a strange story.  The pre-war 5617 was physically the same but the lithograph design was much more "normal" it showed contemporary people in normal dress and the center was depicted as a pass through with contemporary automobiles in the background as if on the far side of the station.  This design stopped in 1939-40 as toy production stopped for the war effort.  The 5617 did not re-appear until 1949 and then when it did, it came with the (as illustrated below) the somewhat bizarre - almost cartoon like people populating the station.  No reason is known, except I suppose they felt it increased market appeal.  In fact I really like it, to me it contributes to the charm.

Well Happy weekend everyone.

Don

@Don McErlean  Nice pickups !

Your Joytown station is missing his roof lol ! ...Poor fellow

Suggested Motive power for your rake? Mettoy or Brimtoy are fairly interchangeable..

Mettory A4 coronation series ?

Or it you want to go UBER fancy ...Mettoy Schools Class ...

But most likely culprit for hauling your freight .. a standard Brimtoy loco and tender

Or if you want to step into early post war you could try and find a Battle of Britain Hurricane Loco

You could evengo a Jaunty little red number ... Chad Valley

Or spoil yourself with a battery powered Chad Valley Merlin Loco

Lots of choices LOL!!! ( Why I like the toy trains .. so much mix and matchy !  )

@FRENCHTRAINS posted:

Tinplate accessories from JEP, stations are all original and have been produced during a long time from the end of the twenties for the small ones to the end of JEP in 1964; there is just some color variations.

My favorite one is the biggest and all the lead people are French manufactured from MDM. Unfortunately JEP has never made those accessories in comparison with Hornby France or Great Britain who have made a lot of them.

have a nice weekend,  Daniel

Sorry to jump back to an earlier contribution but I'm catching up on a week's worth of posts today. Thanks for sharing these photos Daniel. By a coincidence, earlier today I noticed this JEP 5343 for sale on the Bay.

Fatman:  what a great post. Now I know what I might be hunting for in the way of motive power. Yes I knew the roof was using but I just couldn’t pass up that lithography on the station house. Seller I purchased from had one with a roof but wanted 3x the price, too rich for this guy so I keep hunting.

Thank you for all the pictures and info

Best Regards

Don

@O Gauge Guy posted:

Sorry to jump back to an earlier contribution but I'm catching up on a week's worth of posts today. Thanks for sharing these photos Daniel. By a coincidence, earlier today I noticed this JEP 5343 for sale on the Bay.

It is a very nice model in great condition, with the die cast guards on the sides an a light yellow color it dates from the last years of JEP, 1960-64.   Not common and very sought after....

Daniel

Hi Don

Got my vaccines because I'll be 86 in April.  Massachusetts opened up shots for over 75 in early February.

pd  Good spotting. That cute station is the Dorfan 425 which was also produced by Fandor as the 2042. Completely restored. Wrong color.Replaced windows. Still think it looks great.  Trees are Hornby.

Lew

Hot freight moving through Lionelville this afternoon

@asmith1440 posted:

Hot freight moving through Lionelville this afternoon

Love it. What is the motive power? Is this recent production?

On a related note, I want to double head two prewar locos that don't respond to the same voltage. My 262E needs more voltage than my 252 to get moving at least. Will one be dragging the other or is this ok?

Thanks Lew. I'd never seen a Dorfan 425 before, a sharp little piece. Congrats on the vaccine, BTW.

PD

Bought this Rich Art Fire Station on the auction site a few weeks back.  Finally got its new home on the layout finished this weekend was able to get it installed.  Now I just need to find some firefighters to staff it.



Thanks,
Tom

@vettekid68 posted:

Bought this Rich Art Fire Station on the auction site a few weeks back.  Finally got its new home on the layout finished this weekend was able to get it installed.  Now I just need to find some firefighters to staff it.



Thanks,
Tom

Glad it got a new home. I do still have the rare figures that they sold at the same time.

Steve

Thank you for offering up for sale Steve, it is a really neat piece.  I wasn't even aware they made figures to go with it, I'll have to keep an eye out for those.

Thanks,
Tom

@vettekid68 posted:

Thank you for offering up for sale Steve, it is a really neat piece.  I wasn't even aware they made figures to go with it, I'll have to keep an eye out for those.

Thanks,
Tom

I'll have to dig them out and take pictures. There were two sets, one with firefighter figures and another with people holding a trampoline and a lady that jumped onto it.

Steve

@vettekid68 posted:

Bought this Rich Art Fire Station on the auction site a few weeks back.  Finally got its new home on the layout finished this weekend was able to get it installed.  Now I just need to find some firefighters to staff it.



Thanks,
Tom

Here are the figure sets.

Hey Fatman:

Just catching up on the threads and saw the one you posted on the 26th Feb about the Australian made tinplate/toy trains. I also live in Australia, but on the other side of our big brown country, on the Gold Coast in Queensland.

My father bought me a brand new Ferris electric train toward the end of the 1950's, to the best of my recollection. I was about 7 or 8 years old, and he bought it to add to my Swiss Buco train set he also bought brand new some years earlier. These are the trains of my childhood and I have kept them safe and well all of these years.

Here are a couple of photos of the Ferris loco and tender in their original box. The picture on the top of the box is a little worse for wear, but then again, so is its owner!!!

Here is the loco and the tender pulling a small Hornby freight/passenger consist on my Buco layout.

Some close-ups of the loco and the tender. It is one of the few sets Ferris made where the open-frame motor and E unit solenoid for switching between forward and reverse (there's no neutral) were built into the tender, to drive the tender wheels via a worm and transfer gears. The steam loco just "free-wheels" in front of the tender, and is coupled via a solid footplate (still the original footplate). I've had to replace the original rubber traction tyres on the drive wheels with "O" rings......they work a treat!!!!

I have replaced the original pick-up spoons with Buco spoons, as I needed to move the pick-up spacing further apart so the loco/tender would not stall going through my Buco switches/turn-outs. I have kept the original spoons, and stored them in a plastic bag in the loco box.

The loco and tender still run just great, and switch between forward and reverse every time. That open framed motor is incredibly strong and can pull a stump out, even after all of these years!!!

Hope you enjoy.

Peter......Buco Australia.

Thanks Peter @Buco  I hadn't seen the tender drive version up close and personal  ... but it makes excellent sense as it is really a variation of their electric Suburban-type locomotives .... with a bogie drive rather than messing about with conventional locomotive configurations ... Its definately a showpiece you have there and , as we say in Australia  " Built like a brick shytehouse "  ( well not exactly that word , but it might get past the filter LOL! )

There are photos of the same drive used in their F53 Diesels in the ink below at Binns rd  and from memory the Interurban versions were the same bogie drive ... very swish for the time!

https://www.binnsroad.co.uk/ra...ys/ferris/index.html

big thumbs up from the bloke down south !

Hello Peter @ Buco:  As much as I love seeing tinplate trains and buildings;  I must ask, where did you find those wooden houses?  Did you make these?  Look great. Can you post a few pictures of these or any other you might have.  Thanks so much.

Hi waynew:

Thanks for the kind words about the timber railway stations on my layout. These wooden buildings are from the 1950's, and were made by the same Swiss company (Bucherer) that made my Buco tinplate trains, to replicate train stations in Switzerland.

There are several types of these buildings, and they were available as ready-built and painted structures, or you could order them in kit form, and glue and nail them together, and then paint them yourself.

I have 6 different ready-built structures on my layout, however the various Buco catalogs list 13 different wooden buildings to collect. All I know is when they come up for sale on either E-bay or on the Ricardo (Swiss) auction sites, they demand BIG money ($500.00 Aus +).

I will take the camera out to the garage later today and get you some photos.

Peter......Buco Australia.

Hey Fatman:

Thanks for the additional info on the various Ferris trains you could get back in the 1950's. I didn't know about the freight wagons, that was a real surprise!!!!, and the track and points as well!!!!

I have a R/H set of these same manual points in my collection. My father got them for me (second-hand) about the same time he bought the new Ferris train set. Didn't know who made them until just now!!! Thank you.

I also had, at one stage a couple of years ago, the suburban rail car set - one powered carriage that had the same bogie drive gears as on my tender, and one non-powered carriage that just had the free-wheeling trucks found at the back of the tender. Good use of parts by Ferris to keep the costs down.

I sold the set to an avid Ferris train collector here in Queensland.......I was happy and he was happy.

I also bought another Ferris loco off E-bay. This one had the same electric motor and E-unit, but they were fitted inside the body of the loco by Ferris. The motor drove the loco wheels via idler gears .....it was a "basket case" and not working. I was able to restore it back to full operation by re-wiring it, and installing a replacement Ferris E-unit. I have a bag full of these E-units I picked-up many years ago, just to keep for spare parts in case.

The small "domed bump" on the L/H side of my loco's body is there to cover a hole in the boiler for the screw cap of the brush mount of the motor. The motor was installed vertically (on its side) in this particular version of the loco, with the top brush screw cap protruding through the side of the boiler. This tinplate "dome" wasn't installed on this model, so as to provide access to the brush screw cap. Once again, a great way to keep manufacturing costs down, just use the same tooling for both variants.

Thanks again Fatman for the reference doc's.

By the way.......I thought you lived in Western Australia??????

Peter....Buco Australia.

Nah Pete @Buco  I am on the Vic/NSW border area about 25 k's south of the Murray in a little town no-one has ever heard of ( lol ) .. Population ... 8 ! ... we officially have more dogs than people! And as I like dogs more than most people it is very fortuitous to be here LOL!

Morning waynew:

Here are some photos of the timber buildings on my Buco layout I promised you.

These are two of the major railway stations produced by Buco. I have placed them side-by-side on my layout to give an extended platform area.

The first station is named "Neuchatel"

The second station is named "Brienz". Both stations have internal lighting that is connected to the external stand-alone Buco lamp stands at each end and in front of the platform (photo 1).

Small isolated "Island Platform" with simple "V" shaped roof.

Small points/switch operators hut. The "deluxe" version had a small signal bell stand on the front L/H corner.

The "Maggi Mill" with the wooden paddle wheel that actually turns via the pulley at the front. A spring belt connects it to a small electric motor that is mounted under the bench-top.

In all instances, the roofs hinge or lift off to access the internal lighting.

The slewing crane for freight loads that actually works. It has a rope brake attached to the winding crank handle to stop the heavy loads just dropping to the floor when the crank handle is released.

Finally, the Buco billboard (plastic). This is a modern release manufactured by the new Buco Spur O GmbH company in 2019. I purchased 2 of these billboards, and they stand at each end of the double station.

Hope you enjoy, and let me know if there is anything else you would like to know about my Buco O gauge collection/layout.

Peter  (Buco Australia)

@Buco posted:

Morning waynew:

Here are some photos of the timber buildings on my Buco layout I promised you.

These are two of the major railway stations produced by Buco. I have placed them side-by-side on my layout to give an extended platform area.

Peter  (Buco Australia)

Those items all look great!! I never heard of Buco before.   Did they also make the track? - I never saw O gauge tinplate rails quite like what you are showing here.  Also, what can you tell us about those flat cars with lumber loads?

Here's a photo of a mini-diorama on one of my SG shelves.  It is a farm scene centered on a Threshing machine being driven by belt fromt he JD Model D on the right as a dealer delivery truck prepares to drop off a Waterloo boy Model N.  Various Barclay/Maniol (?) figs engage in the work, such as forking wheat onto the chute of the machine, harvesting crops, sharpening the scythe, churning butter, and scaring crows

I have two other such scenes on the shelf that I will post later.

@palallin posted:

Here's a photo of a mini-diorama on one of my SG shelves.  It is a farm scene centered on a Threshing machine being driven by belt fromt he JD Model D on the right as a dealer delivery truck prepares to drop off a Waterloo boy Model N.  Various Barclay/Maniol (?) figs engage in the work, such as forking wheat onto the chute of the machine, harvesting crops, sharpening the scythe, churning butter, and scaring crows

I have two other such scenes on the shelf that I will post later.

From what I can see , your figures are from the Manoil   Happy Farm Series . I’m not sure about this number but I think there were 14 +- different figures.  By the way , that’s a cool looking diorama.

Thanks for that info, JohnnieWalker!

Morning jhz563:

The 3 rail track on most of my layout is solid brass, in the same profile as regular railroad track ("Bull-head"). Bucherer Buco (a Swiss company) produced their own 2 rail track (starting in 1947) for their clockwork trains, and it was made of aluminium held on timber "sleepers"(ties) with a patented rail spike to replicate the rail spikes used in real railroads .

When they introduced their electric range of locomotives in 1949, they changed over to brass for their 3 rail track (better conductivity), but kept the aluminium track going, as well as introducing a nickel steel 3 rail version of the track. I have all three types of track in my spare parts boxes, but prefer the brass rails over the other two versions. I use the aluminium track in my freight yards where the wagons just sit there un-powered. Buco made all sorts of different track pieces, and in four radius - 75cm (0 30), 122cm (0 48), 146cm (0 53), and 180cm (0 72).

You could also buy the rail components individually from Buco, and construct your own track using lengths of brass rail, the special rail spikes, and timber sleepers. You needed special tools to insert the rail spikes into the pre-drilled sleepers, and the chisel to punch the rail spikes down onto the bottom flange of the rails to hold them tight to the sleepers. I have all of this special equipment, and during the Covid-19 lock-down here in Australia last year, I spent my time manufacturing new track pieces to suit the up and coming extension to my layout.

All of the rail "spare parts" were available from a dealer in Switzerland up to just recently, when I purchased the last of their remaining new old stock left over from the 1950's, when the Bucherer Buco company went into liquidation.

Their points (switches) and crossovers are also beautifully made, and I have no trouble with any of my modern MTH Railking and Lionel loco's ever derailing going through them. The switches are fitted with either a hand throw or an electro-magnetic motor that is remotely controlled from beautiful little switch boxes that Buco also manufactured. They were ahead of their time for the late 1940's and early 1950's.

The timber wagons you mentioned could be purchased from Buco with either a load of sawn timber, or just empty. The timber beam and uprights swivel on a make believe turntable, which allows the two small wagons (Dolly's) to negotiate tight turns. The length of the load could be adjusted using the spaced holes in the draw-bar that connects the two little "Dolly" wagons.

I am in the process of restoring three (3) of these timber log wagons that have seen a hard life, they were repainted in terrible colours, and had the wrong axles and tinplate wheels on them. I had all the spare parts in stock to bring them back to their original condition. Here are some photos during the restoration process.

The new paint job and new/original tinplate wheels and turned steel axles are fitted, ready for me to install the timber loads, and lock them down with the fine chains.

Hope you enjoyed my "little tutorial".......I am a bit of a Buco fanatic.

The Buco fraternity in Switzerland believe I have the largest collection of Buco tinplate trains outside of Switzerland......in the words of Forrest Gump......."I don't know about that!!!"

Peter.....Buco Australia

Good Evening @Buco!  Thank you for the excellent little tutorial.   I really like those timber wagons, they look great!  Your track looks really nice too.

Thank you for taking the time to educate me.

@Buco posted:

Those wooden buildings are neat as are the wood sleepers . The track bumpers look like they are also made of wood. Are they Buco ?

Here's tonight's post:  the Fire Department.  The fire house is the Hallmark Kiddie Car accessory.  The engine is 1/32; I don't know the maker as it came without the out box.  Again, the figs are Barclay/Manoil.  The bungalows are both repops from the '70s, I believe.

Peter buco:  those buildings are terrific. Nice collection. Thanks for posting.

Hi everyone...I was fascinated by the post to Peter (Buco) of this wooden structures.   Peter I have a question.   Several months ago I acquired a wooden passenger platform that looks very similar to the one you posed on 3/2/2021 although smaller.  The materials are similar.  When I posted this previously, no one was able to help me ID the maker and I was wondering if you thought it could be Buco.  I will attach some pictures below. As you can see from the names of the stations,this platform has some Dutch origins but it contains no maker's mark or even a country of origin mark.  Anyway, was wondering if you thought it might be Buco.  It like your stations is all wood.

The first loco offered by LR in France was this type. It is a simple 440 with a three axles tender which is sometime referred to a freelance model but it matches a 440 loco of the "ouest" railways but the tender is more toy like. Anyway it is a toy and not a scale model, quality is typical from LR, brass painted body and well engineered motor with steel wheels, a totally different conception of the competitors of the time which where Hornby and JEP.

For those who are interested in the history of LR trains take a look at the TCA website here and you will have a nice survey of the production.      http://www.tcawestern.org/lr.htm

This loco dates from the beginning of LR in 1928 and has been produced during approximately five years and is not common to find.

Have a nice weekend,  Daniel

Time for another mini-diorama:  this time, it's the Pleasantville RR Terminal (must be a terminal:  can't go any farther because of the wall!).

The piece is dirty--won't come off with water, and I am unsure whether to try soap--and partly repainted around the roof, and the base is a little warped, but I got it real reasonable.  Obviously a mix of figure scales (did somebody just use a four-letter word here??).  Some of them think it's cold while others think it's warm.  The little Model As are 1/32.  I like the look of the C-6 bulb in  the lightpost.

Next time, we turn to some trains!

Hi G-Man24:

Yes you are correct......the buffers are also made of solid wood, with a ply base. The buffers are spring-loaded so when the loco hits them, they have a little give. The wooden body is covered with runny plaster which is applied with a stiff brush, to give that "stippled" appearance.

The circular signal on top of the buffer is made of metal, and is pushed into a hole in the top of the block. This signal disc is the part that is always missing when you buy them second-hand, but fortunately I deal with a hobby shop in Switzerland that keeps plenty of them in their spare parts bin. I now also keep a couple in my spare parts as well.

Peter......Buco Australia. 

Hey Don:

Close but no cigar!!!!!!

Sorry your island platform is not from the Bucherer (Buco) production in the late 40's or 50's, nor is it from the successors to Buco who continued to manufacture Buco tinplate right up to today.

Your station platform is very smart and does follow the lines of the Buco platform with the "butterfly" roof, but the destination signs set it apart from anything Buco.

Sorry I cannot be of more help in identifying your little treasure from days gone bye.

Peter.......Buco Australia.

Hi @Don McErlean Funny you should be posting that as just recently in my correspondence with the infamous Dutchboy! we have talked a little about the prevalence of Dutch manufacturers making trackside accessories in wood , much like those you show ... He recently has some pieces for sale by the firm's  Simplex and Figura .. and they are of the ilk you show

The Station he thinks is by Figura in the DDR ... and the other pieces Simplex ( dutch )

Apparently these were retailed in the Netherlands by the Vroom & Dreesmann department stores .

If you like I can email him copies of your station and have him confirm that , but hopefully thats a couple of leads for you to chase down

Even today Simplex still makes many wooden toys for kids

Todays offering by me is a not so commonly seen example of Hornby that I just acquired ...

The Pullman Coach No.0 in its "Mitropa" derivative ... It's seldom you see really nice ones of these as the lithography of the "Gold " foil under the top coat for the lettering was pretty non resistant to rusting and corrosion ... From C1930/31 the same period as the UK made  "American" type Pullmans carried on from parts and tooling from the ill-fated Hornby expansion into the USA in 1927 and killed by the Great Depression in the US  . They made a US range with several cars named after presidents , and the Continental version was the Mitropa

As documented by Hornby themselves in the following clipping

However this particular one was made in the UK as evidenced by the Liverpool mark

Palallin - A bit of warm water, a bar of Ivory soap, and a soft cloth works wonders on old tinplate. No scrubbing, just some gentle rubbing/wiping will clear away most if not all accumulated dirt, then a thorough dry afterwards. I’ve done this with the fragile paintwork on postwar AF S-gauge as well with good results. Be wary of any of the spray-bottle cleansers, as I have found that some of those will soften the paint.

PD

Hey Fatman, was there any commonality in couplers between European manufacturers during the prewar era? Those on the Pullman in the Hornby clipping look like the ones on my prewar Bing set, but the ones on the “continental” version are different. Just wondering...

PD

Heya @pd  Most manufacturers had their own styles , most of the lower end toys were simple tab and slot types , but when you got to the more realistic versions it wasnt uncommon for each manufacturer to have their own take on things ... some like the Bing as you noted were very similar to Hornby drop-link and sets that were made for the UK market were "kinda" compatible , but generally they loved to make things as hard as possible for blokes like me that collect so many different marques

As you can see even Hornby had two distinct types of couplers in its history , with earlier ones in Drop-link format and later ones with the "automatic" versions like you see on the Mitropa above

So you do tend to try and get locomotoves and rolling stock from the same manufacturer and period to get a running rake happening , and on more than one carriage in my collection will you find different couplers on each end to allow cobbling marques together that owners had done way back in the dim dark past

In fact with the Mitropa above you can see the box illustration has drop-link couplers, and the item itself instead has auto ones ...  This shows it was made in 1931 when Hornby introduced the Automatic couplers to the world , as you can see they are factory fitted

So in short to run different Marques and/or from different eras , you have to be ok with "wiring " them together on occasion , or instead keeping marque to marque ...

edit ...a great way to look at different types comes courtesy of Fred and his excellent e-books .. there you can see many makers and their couplings over the various publications

I am sure he wont mind if I link him in here

http://sncf231e.nl/

And if ever I feel the need to crush and process some grains trackside on a layout one day .. I just now picked up a roller mill by J.L. Hess that was designed to be powered by his Dynamobils I have talked about in this thread

Hook it up to the dynamobil with a spring band drive , and it spins the rollers round and round to crush all in its way .. muhuhuhuhaaawwwww

@Fatman posted:

And if ever I feel the need to crush and process some grains trackside on a layout one day .. I just now picked up a roller mill by J.L. Hess that was designed to be powered by his Dynamobils I have talked about in this thread

Hook it up to the dynamobil with a spring band drive , and it spins the rollers round and round to crush all in its way .. muhuhuhuhaaawwwww

If it were larger, I can envision James Bond being put in harm's way, with one of the super villains at the controls.  Or maybe Nell (from Dudley Dooright) with Snidely Wiplash doing his evil. 

Hello Peter Buco:  you mentioned that there are Buco successors to this day.  Are they still making these trains in Buco scale, so to speak, and who are these companies and where can they be found?  Very interesting. Thanks.

This week I worked on my tinplate churches; adding stained glass windows.

The club is allowing me to expand out another couple of feet. I hope this will allow me to run my Lionel Hiawatha on the lower level.

Scott Smith

Peter (Buco) :  Thanks for your response on my wooden station platform - I appreciate the help even just to eliminate a manufacturer.  

Fatman - thank you so much for your information on Figura in the DDR and Simplex firms, I will certainly try to research those firms to see if I can find anything similar.  Although the station stop you pictured and labeled as by Figura certainly is as close as anything has come so far.  You mentioned forwarding the pictures on to a friend who may have more data ... PLEASE DO!! This has become my mystery station and I continue to try and find out who made it.  I bought it for sentimental reasons, as my wife and I are planning a trip to Netherlands (eventually, it has been cancelled and rescheduled by the tour company because of COVID now 3 times) and I traveled in that country several times while working for the Air Force.  OH Yes, the Hornby coach "Mitropa" is super...and the rock grinder is really interesting although I wonder how "MOM" felt about letting junior play with something that could damage his fingers!  (LOL)

Best Wishes

Don

Tonight we shift to a somewhat lower quality shot of the SG train I have put together since Christmas.  It looks a little better at a distance than up close, but no piece is less than C6 (the caboose I think is a repaint, but I am not sure).  I had to replace the headlights on the engine, and I still need to finish the wiring.  I even have it displayed on Flyer track.

During my previous flirtation with SG years ago, I had Lionel and IVES, but no Flyer.  In fact, I have never owned a Flyer piece in my life until I started putting together this little set.  I have developed a real appreciate for Flyer WG, and I hope to get at least one of all the freight cars (if I can find a tank car that goes for less than one of my paychecks!) and also a representative passenger train.  As much as I would like to have a Brass Piper or other big steamer, that's probably not in the cards.  I really like the New Haven-style motor.

@palallin posted:

Tonight we shift to a somewhat lower quality shot of the SG train I have put together since Christmas.  It looks a little better at a distance than up close, but no piece is less than C6 (the caboose I think is a repaint, but I am not sure).  I had to replace the headlights on the engine, and I still need to finish the wiring.  I even have it displayed on Flyer track.

During my previous flirtation with SG years ago, I had Lionel and IVES, but no Flyer.  In fact, I have never owned a Flyer piece in my life until I started putting together this little set.  I have developed a real appreciate for Flyer WG, and I hope to get at least one of all the freight cars (if I can find a tank car that goes for less than one of my paychecks!) and also a representative passenger train.  As much as I would like to have a Brass Piper or other big steamer, that's probably not in the cards.  I really like the New Haven-style motor.

Nice!  I have almost an identical set running on my layout.   

NWL

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

Nice!  I have almost an identical set running on my layout.   

NWL

You're right!  Did you get it as a set or piece it together as I did?

@palallin posted:

You're right!  Did you get it as a set or piece it together as I did?

I bought mine as a set, but mine is the uncataloged JC Penney special Nation Wide Lines set, with all of the cars and the engine labeled with Nation Wide Lines plates.

NWL

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

I bought mine as a set, but mine is the uncataloged JC Penney special Nation Wide Lines set, with all of the cars and the engine labeled with Nation Wide Lines plates.

NWL

Wow!  That is really interesting!

Hence your forum moniker?

@palallin posted:

Wow!  That is really interesting!

Hence your forum moniker?

That set and the wall of Nation Wide Lines

NWL

NWL: IMPRESSIVE! :-)

@Tinplate Art posted:

NWL: IMPRESSIVE! :-)

+1!!

Morning waynew:

Sorry for the tardy reply, but life got in the way yesterday.

The history of the Buco model trains from its start in 1947 up to today makes for fascinating reading.

I have attached a link to the latest company (Buco Spur O GmbH) to continue on the Swiss tinplate tradition. https://buco-gmbh.ch/ This website also has a section of the Buco history and goes into a lot of detail about the different manufacturers who tried to keep the legend alive.

The guys (and one gal) that make-up the latest company are all devotees of the original Buco product, and have acquired all of the old machines and presses that were used in the original production. I have a very good relationship with them, and have purchased many of their "new generation" products and special releases over the past 10 years.

They still manufacture the tinplate wagons and passenger carriages in the original style, but with more modern rail names on the litho printing. They have also recommenced building the original "301" and "304" electric locomotives, and these can be made in different colours (brown and red), as well as the original green colour.

I commissioned them to build me a new 304 and a 301 in red, as this colour is very rare. Here are a couple of photos of the new red loco's on my layout. In both instances I have install an ETS (Czech tinplate train company) printed circuit board to convert the AC from my transformers into DC, to run the new Maxon can motors Buco now install, instead of the old open-framed wound stator field coils and armatures.

The Maxon can motor is very powerful, but only comes in DC, so I install the ETS circuit boards. This overcomes the voltage problem, and also allows me to change the loco's direction (and the lights at each end) through a micro switch on the circuit board. There is a small over-voltage button on the Buco transformer's face which can provide a momentary pulse/spike of 24V  to operate the change-of direction. The ETS circuit boards fit perfectly inside the loco bodies, and the new generation loco's then perform just like the old ones, and can be fully controlled from my original Buco AC transformer.

New red coloured 304 loco (longer body 2-4-2) on the station line, and the new red coloured 301 loco (shorter body 0-4-0) on the outer loop. An original green coloured 304 is parked on the siding between the two lines. Lots of original green coloured 301 loco's parked at the end of the station.

Brand new "301" loco built for me by Buco Spur O GmbH toward the end of last year.

I ordered mine with the "sprung" pantographs, so I can differentiate between the new generation loco's and my older original Buco loco's that have fixed panto's. This way I know that I have to bring the loco to a complete stop before using the over-voltage button to change their direction. The ETS circuit boards don't like to get the over-voltage spike while the loco in still travelling!!!!

ETS circuit board in position, and all the new wiring to change the headlight direction to match the loco's direction.

Once again, another big tutorial from this Buco tinplate fanatic!!!!  Sorry.

Peter.....Buco Australia.

Peter: THANK YOU for sharing your genuine passion for, and knowledge of, the Buco brand! :-)

Peter @Buco Never be apologising for sharing your love of all things Buco and edjumakating us

@Don McErlean I have had a lengthy reply and some photos from the infamous Dutchboy!

Rather than me paraphrasing the rather lengthy reply I will drop some relevant snippets from it for your consideration ( Emphasis is mine ) and excuse any misspelling etc as English is not his native language , and Dutchboy!'s english is 500% better than my Dutch !

"

These wooden Railway assecoiries are hard to pinpoint. Because sometimes the manufactor stamped its brand on it but often also the shop that sold it. Or the owner. Stamps can fade or cleaned of as well.

Anyway, I have one that looks close to it and it is stamped “Figura”. See picture.

It mentions “Station” on a piece of paper, which is the Dutch or English word for … station. (so it is not German Bahnhof or French Gare)

I have found out (on a site about Dutch dollhouses for all sake!) that Figura was (just like Simplex) a company that started producing wooden toys (such as this station, signals, vehicles, doll house furnitures and other stuff) just after WW2. The company was in fact located in Amsterdam during the 1950’s.

In fact, the author of the website had contacted the offspring of the founders and there is some nice information on the use of stamps on wooden toys and about the company Figura on it at: https://pwcollections.nl/dollhouses/red_furniture.php
The page shows a bottom of a dollhouse fireplace at the left, stamped “Figura”. This stamp is exactly the same as on my station (see pictures attached). So, as it is information from the off family of the founder I guess this is pretty trustable.

An other option for the sation could be Simplex. As the lettering on the boards is similar to the lettering on signs I have (see picture). I have mentioned this company before. This was a company that also produced wooden signals, signs, garages, cars, educational toys etc for the Dutch market. Mostly it had a little round sticker on the bottom instead of a stamp.
Simplex seized ( ceased ) the production of toys after a few years and focused entirely on production wooden jig-saw puzzles, that were mostly round in shape as they used the round plywood cut-outs that were leftovers from the loudspeakers cases production at Philips electronics factory in Eindhoven.
Actually Simplex was sold I believe druring the 80’s and production under the brandname is now in… China (where else??).

But my first guess for the station would be Figura.

I can imagine some will say it is a BUCO station. BUCO made similar items (and I thought Kibri also) but the BUCO stations had square poles instead of round ones and the platforms were often longer. Colors were different too, less brighter than the Utrecht station.  And of course BUCO did not produce for Dutch market.

He included a couple of photos of the paper stamps and the inkings on the bases of the items I will include for you here

So you can see its very easy for these items over time to lose their identification .. sunlight and play would quickly fade the ink and rub off the paper

And just to prove how crazy and mixed up the world of collecting can be ... Thanks to @Don McErlean and Dutchboy! with this info exchange happening , part of an earlier mail to him from me touched on U.S.A. made Hornby O Gauge which resulted in him sending me a shedload of links for American-style Hornby ...

Now in Colleczione Fatmanos I already have a full set of both the freight and passenger variants made up of mainly UK produced items when the tooling went back to the UK in late 1929 ( after Hornby really producing in the US for pretty much only one full year 1927-8 before the October 29 crash sealed their fate )

I also have a couple of full "Made in the USA" passenger and frieght wagons ...

However naturally Hornby already had some Litho and or stock from the U.S. that also went back to the UK and I am presuming they used this up before re-jigging the litho to be basically the same but with Meccano Liverpool added in for years of production after 1930 ... The American Outlines are not common, but nor are they "rare" because quite a few were made in the UK .

UK produced American outline caboose , ....Pic stolen off invaluable on the web as my stock photos of the ones in my collection dont show it clearly ..

Under the NYC you see the gold boxlitho with "Hornby series , Manuf'd by Meccano L'pool"  on the other side will be a plain "Hornby Series"

But the ORIGINAL U.S.A. ones will have " Hornby Lines Made in the U.S.A" high on each caboose end and a "Hornby Lines " and "Made In the U.S.A. " on the bottom sides FLANKING the NYC and 2528 litho printing.

Well on one of the links Dutchboy! sent me was one in Italy of all places , and the seller did not post to Australia , but DID have very cheap Speediezon postage to Paesi Bassi ( Netherlands) ... and guess what .. it is horrible , and crusty , missing a coupling , and generally not great, which lead to its 15 Euro price tag for sure , but it is indeed a USA produced caboose , that on return to England had the "Made in USA " overpainted by Hornby themselves ... making it the rarest possible combo of all ... Needless to say a quick email and thank Gawd Dutchboy! has a new born who gets him up early on weekends .. because I sent him the money while he was asleep and as soon as he woke he got my message on his phone and he bought it for me LOLOLOL!!!

Are there nicer ones out there ? I am sure there are .. but find me one lol ... til then there is this one to illustrate the history of the great Hornby failure "Coming to America ! "

( Now thats a movie Eddie Murphy should make !)

Edit BTW if ANYONE has a USA Hornby 2527 locomotive they no longer covet in any shape whatsoever this would be a great time to let it come and live with me Dont shoot me for asking lol !

@Fatman posted:

UK produced American outline caboose , ....Pic stolen off invaluable on the web as my stock photos of the ones in my collection dont show it clearly ..

That's a neat looking coupler on that car with that locking bale or "hoop".

.

Fatman and Unnamed Dutch fellow :  THANK YOU for your effort and information on my wooden "Dutch" station stop.  There is no way I could have found out so much in so short a time.  Fatman thank you for posting and taking the time to discuss it in this thread.  Please pass on to your Dutch friend my thanks as well.  OBTW Wife and I travel to Amsterdam this Oct, tell him I owe him a beer for his efforts and he can collect when we hit town (LOL).

Don

@G-Man24 They are the standard Hornby Automatic couplers fitted to tinplate from 1931 on .. simple and effective!

@Don McErlean Not a problem and happy to help! In a bit of coincidence Dutchboy! happens to live and work at one of the destinations on your station .. Eindhoven ! Your thanks have been passed on

OK now to WTF has Fatman found today ???

Well while its not a manufacturer unknown to me, it is however my FIRST locomotive in the collection from that Manufacturer ... and they say you never forget your first ...

From the small firm of Betal in the UK comes this rather wonderful toy-like locomotive...

This marvellous little fellow is really the red-headed step child of the Toy Train family ... He started out life being made for British Bub by a firm called Dunham and White in the UK but were marked "KB british made" Its thought that Dunham and White originally made the tooling for British Bub , but as Dunham White kept the tooling there is a good bet the Bub's didnt pay their bills !  ... and then British Bub kinda fell on its arse ... so Dunham and White retailed them under its own Branding for a year or so before WWII . Of course when war broke out it was all hands on deck and no time for red-headed step childs ...Dunham and White sold the tooling to Betal after the war and Betal produced a number of variations of sets for a while ... but noticibly there were no identifying logos at all .. just British Made ... It's thought a number of smaller manufacturers in the UK did not brand their low end stuff and the giant retailer Woolworths demanded that toys supplied to them be done so without industry branding ...

So this poor little loco was kicked to the kerb and unloved by at least three companies before being vanquished to the world of tin train obscurity ... But hey .. even a red-headed stepchild deserves some lovin

OK, because I've come to learn that "Clockwork guys have a spring in their step", I dedicate this post to you Fatman!!!!

You all know by now I'm a dyed in the wool 3 rail electric Buco tinplate rail fan, but I must remember their humble beginnings back in 1947 when all that Bucherer Buco made were 2 rail clockwork locomotives, and a very small selection of tinplate 2 axle passenger carriages and freight wagons.

Not wishing to omit these poorer cousins from my collection, I have, over the years, obtained (some would say "stole") three (3) such examples of the clockwork variety. Now for everyone's viewing pleasure, I introduce my three neglected "212" clockwork loco's, and the sets that occupied the bright red cartons with the picture of a real Swiss train on the box.

                                                The Buco clockwork train box set

The Buco label identifying what type of train set was in the box...in this case it is a P (passenger train) 212 (clockwork locomotive) /22 (2 passenger carriages # 8688, 8 sections of curved aluminium rail track, and 4 lengths of straight aluminium track). All track pieces came with a patented stainless steel joiner clamps to prevent the track from coming apart when in use.

                             The obligatory Buco key to arm these little devils.

The three (3) different types of passenger train sets that were available/listed in their 1952 catalog. I will show you the set pictured at the top, but I have all of the other passenger and mail carriages listed with the other sets.

Here is the goods train that came in the above set - G (goods train) 212 (clockwork loco) /2 (2 short high-side gondolas # 8660, 8 sections of curved aluminium 2 rail track, and 2 lengths of straight aluminium track). This part of the catalog (the 1952 catalog is the only one that had an English translation, the others were always just in German and French) gives some insight to the numbers attached to the different loco's.

This page of the catalog explains the different gearing of the 212 clockwork loco. It has a low and high forward speed, a neutral position (to wind the key), and a low and high reverse speed, depending on how far you pulled the direction rod out. I get the "2-1-2" sequence, and how they used this system to number the clockwork loco, but I am stuffed if I know how they came up with the 301, 304, and right at the end of the production, the 314 numbers for the electric motor range. Another one of the mysteries of life!!!

                My P212/12 train set - 1 clockwork loco and 2 short passenger carriages.

The 212 clockwork loco also provides the tinplate body and roof/pantographs for the 301 electric loco. The electric loco got working headlights (bulbs instead of chrome discs), chrome handrails to all four doors, and clear plastic strips fitted inside the body for window/windscreen glass. The direction rod is located at the rear on the electric loco, but is positioned at the front of the clockwork loco in all of their photos, probably to make it easier to activate the direction rod.

One of the short wheelbase 3rd class tinplate carriages that came in the set - carriage catalog No. 8671.

                               A peek inside my second clockwork loco, with the roof removed.

A peek from under the loco (albeit a little dark - sorry) of the drive gear, and how it only powers one axle, unlike the electric version that powers both axles.

This is the third clockwork loco train set I have - G 212/2 - with each of the colours (green and brown) the high-side gondola wagons were made in. These wagons are from the very first production in 1947/48 and have the "Type 1" couplers - they are becoming rare and collector items now. The drop link is very pro-typical and thin, and it is awkward to engage over the hook of the joining wagon.

                                                The original thin "Type 1" drop-link coupler

The "Type 2" drop-link coupler that was fitted to the loco's and wagons/passenger carriages beginning around 1950. This coupler was easier to engage over the adjoining hook, and was also compatible with the Marklin (German) coupling used on their "O" gauge 3 rail trains. The Buco "hook" would slide into the Marklin coupling in the same way as the Marklin coupler did, so Buco and Marklin wagons and carriages could be used together in a consist.

Well, that's the second tutorial you lot have had to sit through, and I apologize yet again.

Footnote: Just to spice things up, I sometimes add a clockwork loco to the end of a freight consist, or double-head it with an electric loco. I just put the clockwork loco in "neutral" and it gets towed around giving the impression it is helping to push/pull the long freight train. Welcome to my fantasies!!!

Peter.....Buco Australia.

Sunday's Run

Tuesday's Run

Scott Smith

Fatman: Would it be impertinent to inquire if your anonymous  "Dutchman" was once an excellent, and much missed, contributor to this forum? (You may reply by e-mail.)

Dug this Marklin tender out of a bin of "stuff" in the attic...been so long since I had seen it, I couldn't remember what it looked like. Thought it might have been a match for a 970 I picked up recently, but no dice:

At least I had the red/black bit right. I think the correct tender for the 970 is a 9790...maybe? Now this 899 needs a mate (whatever that might be).

PD

NICE, anyhoo! :-)

I just founded in France this little bungalow made by Lionel in the thirties; not perfect, has a lot of scratches but it will stay in as is condition.

Have a nice weekend everyone, Daniel

This just arrived in the mail today. 

Set 1378 RCT - Ambassador set from either 1934 or 1935 (as the numbers were the same in both years).  I suspect my set is from 1934 as it uses the pre-streamliner label and has a Century of Progress set number sticker on it. 

Now all I have to do is dig out the appropriate engine to go with the set.  I know I have one in a box somewhere.

NWL

@FRENCHTRAINS posted:

I just founded in France this little bungalow made by Lionel in the thirties; not perfect, has a lot of scratches but it will stay in as is condition.

Have a nice weekend everyone, Daniel

Nice. That little #189 traveled a long way. Does it still have the light fixture inside ? It's amazing to count up the number of individual stampings that were used to make just one of those little villas or bungalows. .

@Tinplate Art posted:

Fatman: Would it be impertinent to inquire if your anonymous  "Dutchman" was once an excellent, and much missed, contributor to this forum? (You may reply by e-mail.)

Hi Art .. No it isnt Fred LOL!  However interestingly enough , in knowing me Dutchboy! has since connected With Fred ( after we found our delightful  "Wester Metaalwarenfabriek" Railmotors and he kindly identified them thru Arne on the forum. ) So in a way this collecting is fostering some amazing connections Now Fred knows Dutchboy! too

Dutchboy! remains anonymous both for his own requested privacy and his workplace requiring a degree of "separation" between man and international "train collecting or any other sort of " fame lol ...

New arrival. Restored Dorfan STD lumber car.

Steve

@pd posted:

Dug this Marklin tender out of a bin of "stuff" in the attic...been so long since I had seen it, I couldn't remember what it looked like. Thought it might have been a match for a 970 I picked up recently, but no dice:

At least I had the red/black bit right. I think the correct tender for the 970 is a 9790...maybe? Now this 899 needs a mate (whatever that might be).

PD

Seek and ye shall find ... you need ( funnily enough) an 880 or 890  loco lol

I also bought a 899 tender and had it shipped here to Australia with the intention of using it as a way of pulling all my Marklin rolling stock when I don't have an operational Marklin loco.  It worked OK but I found that it's very light and has a tendency to lift off the track with a long consist.  I'm thinking of gluing some weight inside or preferably underneath.

@G-Man24 posted:

Nice. That little #189 traveled a long way. Does it still have the light fixture inside ? It's amazing to count up the number of individual stampings that were used to make just one of those little villas or bungalows. .

Those little houses are very well made and elaborate, they must have need some working time to be assembled.

This one still have the light fixture inside, just the insulation needs to be redone as it falls apart.  It must have a long story to tell, but unknown unfortunately, it was discovered with some French JEP models of the same time period. Strange to find this here, first one I saw in many years..... now waiting for another one, who knows.....

Daniel

@Fatman posted:

Seek and ye shall find ... you need ( funnily enough) an 880 or 890  loco lol

They say the search is the fun bit

@pd  I can only help you with a 910 or 950 lol !

@Fatman posted:

Hi Art .. No it isnt Fred LOL!  However interestingly enough , in knowing me Dutchboy! has since connected With Fred ( after we found our delightful  "Wester Metaalwarenfabriek" Railmotors and he kindly identified them thru Arne on the forum. ) So in a way this collecting is fostering some amazing connections Now Fred knows Dutchboy! too

Dutchboy! remains anonymous both for his own requested privacy and his workplace requiring a degree of "separation" between man and international "train collecting or any other sort of " fame lol ...

Great story about making the connection.

And too bad about not wanting his hobby to be known... Neil Young, Rod Stewart, Frank Sinatra, Tom Snyder, David Letterman, and Jools Holland all "came out" as train nuts.  Maybe someday he'll slip out from the inky shadows.

@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

New arrival. Restored Dorfan STD lumber car.

Steve

I really like seeing the proper "restoration" sticker!

@Mallard4468 posted:

I really like seeing the proper "restoration" sticker.

You beat me to it....I was just thinking the same thought....how to few pics ever show this albeit not everyone belongs or conforms to the TCA standards.

@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

New arrival. Restored Dorfan STD lumber car.

Steve

That's beautiful , possibly better looking than one made in the 30s . Would be cool if there was a repro box with art work on it to go along with the car .

Some typical French railway signals made by LR, not easy to find in good condition, direct painting on metal is not a good thing...

Pre-war models

And post war,

Daniel

Daniel what a great Lionel find...I know G-man24 felt it was a #189 Villa  made from 1923 -1932 but I thought that it could also be a #912 " Suburban Home" made in a variety of colors from 1932-1942.  The 912 was also offered as part of a "landscaped plot" as were many of Lionel's other tinplate homes. Here is a cut from the 1936 catalog. Note the second plot down on the right hand side, to me it resembles the house that you found.  However, I also have a cut from the 1927 catalog that shows the #189 Villa and candidly the difference between the houses is not apparent.   It is very possible that Lionel continued to make the same structure but with a change in colors or some other detail simply changed the number in 1932.

Here is a cut from the 1927 catalog, showing the #189 Villa in the lower right hand corner.  As you can see, the structure or house itself is very hard to differentiate from the #912 Suburban Home.  So who knows.    Both houses were made in quite a variety of colors and the #189 / #912 combination was made for nearly 20 years...obviously very popular

Anyway Daniel...as always a great find.  I also loved the signals you showed as well, although I must admit I do not know the purpose of most of them.

Best wishes

Don

Hello Don, many thanks for the documentation, still have to find an original plot which is not really easy here; I think I will have to wait for a next trip to USA but when is anothere big question...

The signals are toys and except the red and white ones which means stop the others are no more than fantasy ones.

Daniel

Here is the latest Märklin pre-war Güterwagen purchase to arrive from Germany - a very nice 4achsig 1853/0 Tarpaulin wagon.

Not sure if the tarpaulin is original as I would have expected it to have MÄRKLIN printed on the side. So possibly a reproduction but an old, stained one.

I certainly didn't expect it to arrive in a box which I'm sure must be reproduction given what looks like photocopied artwork glued to the box plus the catalogue number is incorrect and copied off the 18520 wagon which was used as a base unit for this variant.

@Fatman posted:

Oh and earlier I hinted at a "Big Find" coming from Europe with the help of Dutchboy , Fatmans trusty companion!

Well he came thru with the goods !

Not so much "train " orientated but falling in my other wheelhouse of vintage kinetic motors , I have shared the Hess Dynamobil before but will include a pic again for reference here ... These items were made in the early 1900's to 30's as an alternative to having your kid head off into the sitting room with a bottle of alcohol and a box of matches to play with a steam engine lol ... much less chance of burning your house to the ground!

They are basicaly a highly geared weighty flywheel which when spun up to speed used the stored inertia to drive steam accessories for a good minute or two after you spun it up ... plus they make a satisfying grrrrrrRRRRRRRRRR.. WHOOOOOOOOOoooooo as they cycle up and wind down

Hess dynamobil

You wind the crank , get it spinning as hard as you can then you can cut in the pulley drive with the lever to transfer the energy to any toy that can be operated by a spring belt ...Magic ! I have a little Carette windmill I power with it .

So Kinda?? Train related as it could sit on any layout lol ...

So to the big reveal !!!

OK ...so Hess went the way of many German toy companies in Nuremburg with the rise of the Nazi's , falling foul of Hitlers "Nuremburg " laws which, when enacted, basically made the German Jewish population stateless by removing their rights as citizens , which in turn meant they could no longer own and operate business's properly compared to "German" citizens ... Hess folded in 1937 and Tipp & Co bought out the tooling etc in a fire sale ...

Tipp & Co then released their own version of the Dynamobil .. the Tippmobil ( how original lol )

Advertised in their 1937 catalogue , but when war was looming, Tipp & Co as the poster child for good little German Toy  Manufacturers then concentrated on making toys of German War vehicles , and the Tippmobil was forgotten ... Thats probably a bit harsh on Messers Tipp & Co as there were indeed one of Germany's finest tin toy makers long before the war .

Ladies and Gennermannnns I preeeeesent to youuuuu..

The Tippmobil!

Mega HUGE props to Dutchboy for finding this on a local Netherlands buy and sell site and alerting me to its existence ... as this was a huge find for me , and the seller did not know its history either and lets just say it was purchased for 1/10th of the only other one I have seen for sale ..errr currently on ebay

A mark of the man I am proud to call my friend is that HE found it , alerted me , purchased it for me with money I transferred to him at exactly the advertised price , and will ship it to me along with the other stuff I have bought from him when we have a full box ... He could have sooo easily bought it , marked it up 500% and then said "Look what I have got ! " knowing full well I would be interested still ( he Bought me a Hess one in the same manner ) A true Gentleman and a friend .

https://www.hesstintoys.com/dyna9.html  I became aware of the Tipp & Co variant thru my research on Hess Dynamobils which pointed me to this marvelous site

Thank you DutchBoy ! ( he must remain completely anonymous due to his work , but he gets full credit as best I can )

Very cool- thanks for posting this (and the link to the Hess toys website). That Tippmobil generator gadget would look awesome inside my power station!

@Mallard4468 posted:

Great story about making the connection.

And too bad about not wanting his hobby to be known... Neil Young, Rod Stewart, Frank Sinatra, Tom Snyder, David Letterman, and Jools Holland all "came out" as train nuts.  Maybe someday he'll slip out from the inky shadows.

Its not about"coming out " as a train nut lol ... just that the nature of his career means privacy of person and whereabouts can be important

I just completed restoration of my Grandfather’s 4692-X-r/c American Flyer (Iron Monarch) set, which I believe was manufactured in 1930. My 90 year old Grandfather told me it was his father’s set but doesn’t remember ever seeing it run. Thanks to exceptional rewiring, new wheels, cleaning and lubrication performed by Joe Mania, my Grandfather was able to finally see this set run. It brought a big smile and quite a few tears to his face, which made it well worth the time. Set runs like it is brand new again.

@Fatman posted:

Its not about"coming out " as a train nut lol ... just that the nature of his career means privacy of person and whereabouts can be important

https://www.memesmonkey.com/to...&gid=1&pid=5

@Don McErlean No great mystery, I think, here, Don. #189 is the number of the villa as sold by itself, and #912 is the number of the plot which includes the house. Same villa but two different products. Daniel's color scheme is also listed in the TCA book as a variation of the #189. It may or may not have come with a scenic plot. I am not home, but when I am, I will double check the book to see if it gives any details of which color schemes for the villas were used in the plots.

This villa was based on either Mario Caruso's home or his brother's- I forget which.

Will:  Got it!  Thanks, I should have looked in the TCA reference but it wasn't handy so I used David Doyle's "Guide to Lionel Prewar Trains" which was where I found the catalog cuts.  Makes sense to have 2 different numbers one with and one without the plot.  Thanks for the information, I like to be always learning.

Best Regards

Don

Hello Tinplate fans, goobernuts what a super American Flyer set!  Well today, I am back to illustrating my modest taste in Tinplate line side accessories.  This one attributed to Hafner and most likely pre-war.  According to the TCA Western Div website page, Hafner used Bing to make their line side structures up until Bing left the market around 1930.  Subsequent to that, Hafner's first offering was a set of three structures, all numbered #1200.  there was a passenger station, a freight station, and a passenger platform.  According to the TCA data, these items were all available separately but never assigned individual numbers.  I have previously posted the station but have been looking for the other two parts of the set.  I recently found one on e-bay and its a fair example, although I believe the freight platform has been repainted.  Here is the #1200 freight station with the loading platform in front and the large sliding door.  These came in many colors and with various lithograph decoration on the sides of the house.

Here is the end view, it has the same name as the station, "Glen Ellen" which is a real place and is in fact a suburb of the city of Chicago where Hafner trains was located.  I have also seen these freight stations with just plain ends and no name.

For comparison, here is the #1200 Glen Ellen station, you can see the variation in the lithography on the front side however, the design on the ends is identical in this set.  In addition, the passenger station is much closer to white/ blue in the litho color scheme whereas the freight station is more of a yellow cream/red combination.  Hey ... these guys were making toys not collectables! (LOL)

Hey that's my input for today.  Best wishes for a good week everyone.

Don

Here's a Lionel No. 66 Semaphore (1915-1926) which came as one of the accessories on my 199 Scenic Railway  and stands 14" tall. It is operated manually with the red upper arm alternating between a red and green celluloid disc over the lamp and the lower green arm which alternates between green and amber. The arms operate independently.

It was intended (in this case) to sit alongside a single set of rails on a curve leading to a signal crossing. It offers no control over the track power and the lamps are always lit.

My question is how would a model engineer operate this accessory so as to simulate a prototypical signal in operation ? What would be the appropriate position of the arms for a train being halted vs a train with the go ahead ? Perhaps it was simply a toy and I'm overthinking it but it seems Lionel would always try and incorporate and promote some measure of realism with their trackside accessories.

@goobernuts posted:

I just completed restoration of my Grandfather’s 4692-X-r/c American Flyer (Iron Monarch) set, which I believe was manufactured in 1930. My 90 year old Grandfather told me it was his father’s set but doesn’t remember ever seeing it run. Thanks to exceptional rewiring, new wheels, cleaning and lubrication performed by Joe Mania, my Grandfather was able to finally see this set run. It brought a big smile and quite a few tears to his face, which made it well worth the time. Set runs like it is brand new again.

Applause and my compliments to you for such a very nice gesture and a job well done! Thank you for sharing these photos! This brightened my day.

Yeah! What he said

EXCELLENT Flyer restoration! That dual Lionel semaphore is awesome!

American Flyer are great looking models, I just have one that I bought at the York TCA meet some years ago and I enjoy to run it. It is very similar to the previous model posted, loco is stamped 4692 and tender 4693; as it has nickeled trucks maybe it was made for the same set.... now I will have to find a matching passenger set.

Have a nice weekend,  Daniel

@G-Man24 posted:

Here's a Lionel No. 66 Semaphore (1915-1926) which came as one of the accessories on my 199 Scenic Railway  and stands 14" tall. It is operated manually with the red upper arm alternating between a red and green celluloid disc over the lamp and the lower green arm which alternates between green and amber. The arms operate independently.

It was intended (in this case) to sit alongside a single set of rails on a curve leading to a signal crossing. It offers no control over the track power and the lamps are always lit.

My question is how would a model engineer operate this accessory so as to simulate a prototypical signal in operation ? What would be the appropriate position of the arms for a train being halted vs a train with the go ahead ? Perhaps it was simply a toy and I'm overthinking it but it seems Lionel would always try and incorporate and promote some measure of realism with their trackside accessories.

Love your scenic railway!! Green-go. Red-stop. Yellow-caution. But seriously that is a question for the "real" train forum. I would google it. Here is some help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...way_semaphore_signal

@Will posted:

Love your scenic railway!! Green-go. Red-stop. Yellow-caution. But seriously that is a question for the "real" train forum. I would google it. Here is some help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...way_semaphore_signal

Thanks for the link Will. Just so there's no confusion that photo with the semaphore is not my Scenic Railway but a reference photo .  Hope to have photos of my completed layout soon.

Gman24: that is some signal.  While I am no expert in this area, (taking a risk here)  I believe that the two semaphores represent a "near" and a "distant" warning.  Hence the engineer might get a "green" near signal meaning OK to proceed but a "yellow" distant signal meaning he needed to be prepared to stop or slow down in some reasonably short distance.  I have been told that the distance to stop is specified by the particular Railway's rules and some times is defined as "the length of the train".  Its position just ahead of a blind curve on the layout lends some credibility to this view, the distant signal could be telling the engineer to slow down for a curve coming up or for some obstacle he can't see because its around the curve.

My offering today is a picture of a Hornby Branch Line train.  These used to be common in the UK ( and the US) but are long gone for the most part today.  They went from village to village or perhaps from village to larger town.  They were never fancy, never fast, sometimes the tree branches overhung the right of way and rubbed against the windows.  This one is a mixed train. Having one passenger coach and a Milk Traffic Van likely picking up empties from the morning milk delivery.  Stopping here at the passenger depot in "Small Town" on my layout (today representing "Small Heath" in the UK).

The engine here is a Hornby type 101 shell where the engine has been converted to electric drive via installing a Marx motor mechanism.  The Coach is a Type # 31 1st/2nd class coach in the "blood and custard" color scheme dating from about 1956 but lasting into the middle 60's.  The Milk Traffic van is a No 1 SR Milk Traffic Van first offered in 1949 however this one has plastic wheels, thus dating it from 1951or later, it was dropped from the line in 1954.

Frenchtrains / Daniel :  You have discovered the fun of prewar American Flyer...they numbered the loco with one number, the tender with another and sometimes the combination with a third number!!  Great loco however.

Best wishes to all for a great weekend.

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

Gman24: that is some signal.  While I am no expert in this area, (taking a risk here)  I believe that the two semaphores represent a "near" and a "distant" warning.  Hence the engineer might get a "green" near signal meaning OK to proceed but a "yellow" distant signal meaning he needed to be prepared to stop or slow down in some reasonably short distance.  I have been told that the distance to stop is specified by the particular Railway's rules and some times is defined as "the length of the train".  Its position just ahead of a blind curve on the layout lends some credibility to this view, the distant signal could be telling the engineer to slow down for a curve coming up or for some obstacle he can't see because its around the curve.

Don

That's as good an explanation as any, thanks Don. That little Hornby train is great!

@FRENCHTRAINS posted:

American Flyer are great looking models, I just have one that I bought at the York TCA meet some years ago and I enjoy to run it. It is very similar to the previous model posted, loco is stamped 4692 and tender 4693; as it has nickeled trucks maybe it was made for the same set.... now I will have to find a matching passenger set.

Have a nice weekend,  Daniel

I love that style tender with the barrel back shape.

Super Stoked to announce I have managed to cross another off the bucket list

I will probably throw this in a post of its own in the tinplate section, but this thread and the people in it are my first love on this forum ... now enough soppiness and on with the show !

Thanks to a bit of cross forum negotitation elsewhere ( the Sakai peeps) I became aware of this one going up for sale and staked and battled til she were mine ...

Its a rather unusual locomotive from the Brimtoy company in the UK , and it is rather a mystery to the collecting community with a few theories bandied about but no actual evidence of when, why, and how it was made ... All shall be expounded on later but for now .... PICS ! ( cos thats why you are here right ?)

Brimtoy 6201 locomotive tender and carriage set ! ( and possibly THE best condition I have seen anywhere )

Brimtoy/Wells logo in "shakyvision"

But get a load of this eyeful

Look at the beautiful carriage connections

( I believe they also came in 3 carriage form , but 2 is all we get here )

Now to the mystery/undocumented/what the? component... anyone recognise the motor in this big bad boy?

Yes it appears to be "Marx" or at least of Marx origins ... And here is where the speculation begins .. perhaps the best reference to this loco can be found at http://toyandtrainguides.com/m...british/brmtymrx.htm

I include this photo from there for those too lazy to click ( lol )

You can see that apart from the mainspring key shaft and sideplate attachments the Brimtoy motor is very similar ...It appears the Brimtoy would MUCH more servicable as it can be easily pulled apart .

Now the Marxtin folk have speculated on Marx actually owning Brimtoy at some stage ..if that were true there WOULD be a record of it , and none such exists , so the claim that Marx owned "everything toy-wise " (lol)  is just smoke and mirrors and patriotism IMHO

However if we apply company history we can see that both Marx and Chad Valley at one stage had their bases not too far from each other in Birmingham and surrounds , Brimtoy and Chad Valley often co-operated over the years with esp railway accesories , but then in 1948 British Marx set off to establish a new Factory in Swansea ( Wales ) as after the war the UK was looking to provide employment in the other areas of the UK , reinforcing the UNITED in Kingdom, so no doubt there were incentives for many manufacturers to head into the "provinces" such as Wales Ireland and Scotland .

My personal theory on this loco is that it became part of a joint comercial agreement between Marx and Brimtoy in a "You scratch my back , I'll scratch yours" scenario .. where British Marx contracted Brimtoy to supply some accessories for their sets ( like tinplate stations etc) and in return Brimtoy just might have placed an order with Marx for motor components etc .. An exercise in helping Marx establish in Wales ( as eventually Brimtoy did too a decade and a bit later ) .. now as to the body .. I reckon it bears more than a passing resemblence to the Unique Arts American locos... which it is rumoured Marx bought the tooling of... now Marx never used that tooling themsleves .. but perhaps it was loaned to Brimtoy for the purposes of this 6201 , or Marx used the tooling to form shells for Brimtoy as part of the exercise???

I have no proof of this , but it just kind of makes sense in the new prosperity after the war , rather than fight each other , many companies banded together to increase each others productivity and everyone benefitted .

More toys , more sales. more moolah for everyone !  At least for the short few years in the late 40's early fifties .

I can find no exact dates for the years this set was produced but I would guess @ 1950-54 , I have seen an ad for it but no reference date was attached to it sadly ... Still it remains that not too many of these are out there , for instance a search at Vectis ( one of the UK's premier toy and train auction sites) lists only 4 examples crossing thru them in the last 20 years and TWO of those four were the ones from the Michael D Foster collection sale last year after writing the book on them

Huge thanks to Bryan P for letting this come to live with me

Wow, @Fatman, what a beauty!!

@Fatman ACE! What a find. Thanks for the continuing historical  background that accompanies your finds. I know I enjoy these as a only Lionel collector. Keep up with your hunts!

Fatman: What a fabulous set !!  Thank you for your discussion on the Brimtoy / Marx potential connection.  If the connection is via the motor components, then it is also  a potential US connection as well since all the motors for British Marx were manufactured in the US - at least the electric ones, I am less sure of the clockwork. 

I especially liked what appears to be a coupling between the coaches that appears to have a simulated vestibule.  This makes for a very realistic consist and really looks sharp!

Thanks again for posting.

Don

@Fatman posted:

But get a load of this eyeful

I was just thinking to myself  "hey we were cheated out of our weekly findings from Fatman !" when I doubled back to see you had snuck in when the lights were out.

That set is a beauty, Don Mac stole my thunder,  I was about to cleverly point out how the coach coupling resembles a vestibule. (I wouldn't mind seeing a close-up of that).  Very cool, congrats on your acquisition.

I echo the sentiment of others regarding  the history lessons and insightful commentaries that accompany your posts. They are always a treat to read !

@G-Man24 posted:

I echo the sentiment of others regarding  the history lessons and insightful commentaries that accompany your posts. They are always a treat to read !

I'll echo the echo . . .

LOL Thanks Guys !

But just remember I am not a definitive source of knowledge , I just try to pass on a summation of what I learn researching and postulating on new aquisitions . Always feel free to jump in with corrections or alternative views at any stage , its all about learning and having a bit O Fun

I recently also got my second IGRA set, made in Czechoslovakia around 1967 ...I love the fact that Czech kids were playing with these beautiful tin sets into the 70's  however the company introduced plastics not long after these were made and the tinplate tradition died a little ... There is not a lot of history out in the WWW about them and 99% of it is in Czech ( lol ) so a company history is not forthcoming at this stage but from what I can glean from several sources it was a Co-operative Factory which formed in the mid to later 60's and wound up in the 80's some time ...

I already had one Igra set , this one below  is a later production and has "GASP" Plastic wheels

But now I have the full tin set they made early on .. this version below is the first one from about 1967 with tinplate all round and a great industrial look !  No one could criticise their wonderful use of ribbing and embossing

Wow Fatman...I don't know who your "supplier" or "investigator" is but he is certainly doing quite a job for you.  The Brimtoy was fabulous and is a manufacturer I am familiar with, however the "IGRA" set is a new maker to me.  What a great set and your earlier one is super as well.  Thanks for sharing. 

Best Wishes

Don

Fatman / Will / Rich ...I noticed that all of you have the same logo by your signature..."The 48 Club" ... would you tell us about that organization?  Is membership possible.

Don

@Don McErlean posted:

Fatman / Will / Rich ...I noticed that all of you have the same logo by your signature..."The 48 Club" ... would you tell us about that organization?  Is membership possible.

Don

It's a highly secret society that exists only on the internet.  Here's a link:  https://ogrforum.com/...3#154307984486144853

In order to join, you must read all 300+ posts in that thread.

Now that we've told you, we have to kill you.

OH NO!  I miss eligibility by 4 sq ft!!  My layout, which I dub the Leonardtown and Savannah, or L&S (nickname "long and skinny") is 3 ft by 12 ft.  So I miss the 32 sq ft maximum.  Disappointed.   

Wait a Minute...I have a second, temporary layout on the porch of our summer cottage...its only 4ft X 4ft and fully Marx (one 0-27 circle).  Can I use that to qualify?  I don't have any pictures of that but it is for my Marx 4205, 4 wheel, NYC freight set that I play with in the summer. 

Don

@Mallard4468 posted:

It's a highly secret society that exists only on the internet.  Here's a link:  https://ogrforum.com/...3#154307984486144853

Curses!...I think my Scenic Railway is 49" wide !  Have to check the length to see if I can sneak in.

@Fatman posted:

Is that tab folded over as some kind of safety in case the spring lets go ?

G-man 24 ... I am in the same boat...need a dispensation for 4 sq ft.  Don't know who the "Grand Chairman" is however...to whom do we plead our case?? 

Don

@Don McErlean, your summer railway will get you membership and we need members for the Tinplate Chapter. Just Fatman and I so far and you will note he is also in the Australia Chapter. Apply directly with a post to the The 48 Club topic. Our grand poobah and founder and guiding spirit is @baltimoretrainworks, AKA Jerry. Other than a small layout, the only requirement is to have a certain savoir faire and predilection for dry martinis.

@G-Man24, check that measurement or get your saw out.

@G-Man24 posted:

Curses!...I think my Scenic Railway is 49" wide !  Have to check the length to see if I can sneak in.

As long as the footprint can fit in 32 square feet you're good.

@Don McErlean posted:

Wait a Minute...I have a second, temporary layout on the porch of our summer cottage...its only 4ft X 4ft and fully Marx (one 0-27 circle).

You're good too!

Jerry

@Don McErlean posted:

My layout, which I dub the Leonardtown and Savannah, or L&S (nickname "long and skinny") is 3 ft by 12 ft. 

BTW, I love that layout- great little track plan, but I would worry about the trains toppling over.  I guess that is about as narrow a table as you could fit an O-31 loop on without the track hanging over the edge.