TMCC steam engines fan smoke units

Mike, if you want 4 chuff synchronized smoke, go with Chuff Generator and Super Chuffer from Gunrunnerjohn on this forum; it works great.  Well worth the investment; John has some videos here on the forum.   It can be done with 38050 with Lionel parts but GRJ's product works great.   Falcon70

Most all of the TMCC engines use a cam on one of the driver axles that actuates a micro switch. Some of those engines had a puffer smoke unit much like a post war unit that is actuated by the same cam. All of these are set to two chuffs per driver revolution. Some others also got a fan driven smoke unit but again many of those put out either two chuffs and puffs or ran continuously. Only handful with the cams gave four chuffs and puffs. Again the cam gave the chuff sound.

It is possible to swap the two lobe cam for a four lobe if you are mechanically inclined. Easier on some than others.

Your engine does have a fan smoke unit. Are you getting 4 chuff sounds? Is the smoke continuous or not?

Putting a switch on tender axle can give 4 chuffs but it won't be synchronized with driver rotation plus added circuitry would be needed to drive the fan motor.  

Pete

I have to sing with Falcon70, the Chuff-Generator and the Super-Chuffer II combine to give you four chuffs/rev, smoke at idle, Rule-17 LED headlight control, automatic cab light control, and you can even add automatic ground lights.

Here's a couple of videos with it in operation.

I'll add my vote for the Super Chuffer also. I have done several upgrades for non-puffing tmcc engines, and it definately seems like the most efficient way to go. Tip: better to use the SC II unit in lieu of the original SC. The board is smaller, plus the fan won't pulse when the smoke is shut off, unlike the original version. But both will work fine. Personally I am OK with 2 chuffs per rev, but you will also need to add the Chuff generator to get 4 chuffs.

Depending on the engine it can be chalenging to find a space where the SC board will fit; you may have to get creative. I also do a complete overhaul of the typical original 8057-200 smoke unit as part of the upgrade. This includes getting rid of the anemic 27 ohm resistor in favor of an 18 or 20 ohm unit, enlarging the air intake hole, and repacking the fluid chamber. I also drill out the boiler stack inside hole to 5/16" or so if it is small and restrictive. This tends to make the smoke stream thick and billowy, instead of thin and wispy. Make no mistake, with some upgrades the 8057-200 can smoke you out of the train room!   And having synchronized chuffing and sound, along with rule 17 headlight and cab light control really improves the older tmcc engines. With these upgrades they are some of my favorite runners.

Rod

The original Super-Chuffer hasn't been sold for several years, the upgraded Super-Chuffer II has shipped hundreds of units already.

Boy where did that first video come from John?   I need to upgrade the black one to super chuffer.  Has the TAS Turbo smoke unit and as you can see from my video is lacking compared to the green berk with Johns super chuffer installed.

The amount of smoke is primarily a function of the resistor. You might try moving the thermistor away from the resistor first. Also using a lower wattage rating of the same ohmic value will generate more heat without taxing the circuit driving it.

Pete

Pete is correct, the Super-Chuffer doesn't change the smoke quantity, it just manages the chuffing and smoke at idle.  However, when I do a Super-Chuffer install, I routinely do an "upgrade" of the smoke unit.  Change the resistor if appropriate, open up the intake, change the wick and insure it doesn't block the airflow, and also open up the stack as much as possible.

The videos were from Youtube doing a search on Super-Chuffer.

I’ll have to go with both camps, but here’s one of Pete’s 4 lobe cams in action with ERR...John’s stuff works really well too....got no complaints,..but when we can just change a cam, and we’re off, it’s the way to go....John’s Suoer chuffer and the AMAZING Super Chuffer are a must when no provision for a cam is to be had....

Pat

If you can easily change the cam, I agree.  However, a ton of the Lionel and K-Line stuff doesn't allow that. And, of course, you have to have the cam.  I make the Chuff-Generator, but I don't have the equipment or the skills to make the cams.

Also, most of the early brass doesn't have any cams or chuff switch, I find it a lot easier to use the Chuff-Generator.  When it comes to pulling wheels and re-quartering, I'll take the easy way!

You’ll get no argument from me John, ....the MTH engines that I build that come to me gutted like a fish, all get the chuff stuff from you....there’s no cam no nothing in sight....just like a brass.....speaking of which, the thread on the Kline Hudson build will be fitted with the AMAZING Chuff stuff....hey...that’s a better jingle....2 syllables, straight to the point.....easy for customers to remember ........commission check please?...

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pete is correct, the Super-Chuffer doesn't change the smoke quantity, it just manages the chuffing and smoke at idle.  However, when I do a Super-Chuffer install, I routinely do an "upgrade" of the smoke unit.  Change the resistor if appropriate, open up the intake, change the wick and insure it doesn't block the airflow, and also open up the stack as much as possible.

The videos were from Youtube doing a search on Super-Chuffer.

Agreed, what I was stating is how weak the chuff is with the TAS turbo smoke unit compared to a smoke unit with super chuffer added.

I've run across a few TAS units where the smoke logic has crapped out.  Too hard to track down what's wrong, so I was replacing them with the Lionel rectangular smoke PCB.

I’m actually curious about Pete’s cam method since I have a few K-Line streamers that have the 2-chuff cam and cherry switch already built in and might be too small to fit a Chuff-Generator on top of the motor.

Though it’s a question how easy is it to pull the wheels, add the cam, and reinstall...

Lionel had a many different smoke unit types to do this puff.  Some work better than others.  G

@Mikado 4501 posted:

I’m actually curious about Pete’s cam method since I have a few K-Line streamers that have the 2-chuff cam and cherry switch already built in and might be too small to fit a Chuff-Generator on top of the motor.

Though it’s a question how easy is it to pull the wheels, add the cam, and reinstall...

As John pointed out the cam installation is easier on some than others. I looked at my K-Line B6 the other day and the chuff switch is really buried. You have to take apart the entire engine to get to it. I know Pat has replaced the cam in the K-Line scale Hudson by splitting a cam and then reglueing it over the axle.

I have replaced the cams on 4 different engines so far. The Lionel J3 Hudson with screw on drivers, same with the Lionel CV Hudson. Then the TMCC Mogul and Niagara which have a bottom plate that allows the driver set to come out. Those You have pull a driver off but by scribing a line across the axle first it allows the driver to be reinstalled without having the requarter. The axle splines help guide it in place.

To send the switch closure to both the smoke fan and chuff input we have used either two chuff switches next to each other or using the existing switch to close a DPDT reed relay. Adding a TO220 5v regulator to power the relay. The circuit can be made for a couple of bucks with the relays available on ebay for $1. They were $.50 when I bought mine. BTW the Mogul did not even require the added circuit. Just by changing the cam it gave 4 chuffs and puffs.

So while taking a bit more time to implement the actual cost of materials is peanuts.

This TMCC J3a Hudson was the first one I did. It did require changing out the puffer unit.

New cam next to old one below.

Pete

@Mikado 4501 posted:

I’m actually curious about Pete’s cam method since I have a few K-Line streamers that have the 2-chuff cam and cherry switch already built in and might be too small to fit a Chuff-Generator on top of the motor.

Though it’s a question how easy is it to pull the wheels, add the cam, and reinstall...

Pete's method is certainly cheaper.  OTOH, fitting the Chuff-Generator shouldn't be a problem, I have an add-on extension that allows you to mount the actual Chuff-Generator and just run wires to it.  You cut the tail to size on this, it should fit almost any motor.

The engines in question are two of the K-Line light Mikados - one PRR, and one NYC.

The photo above shows the cam underneath where the cherry switch mount plate goes.

I don’t know if Lionel modified how the motor mounts in these since they upgraded these engines to LEGACY format, but the motor seems to stick up diagonally and space is given for it in the sand domes. So I’m a little curious if mounting the CG would be a real squeeze

I've put the Chuff-Generator into a few Mikados, as well as the K-Line A5 and B6, small locomotives aren't necessarily an impossibility.