"To clean or not to clean - Rods and valve gear"

Turtle wax chrome polish will clean the rods well or just leave them for new owner to clean.

+1 on the chrome polish. I also use OOO brass wool to knock of those stubborn stains and debris. 

I use nevr-dul we use to use it in the Navy to shine brass 

rtraincollector posted:

I use nevr-dul we use to use it in the Navy to shine brass 

Is that the same as the Brasso or Noxon that I used in the army ?

Probably.  Haven't heard that name in years  

I try to swap rods around from like engine's so the best are on the best engine and so on.  The crappy ones go on an engine that gets repainted or something.  If the rust is bad, I'll wire wheel those to remove it.  I always try to move those parts around to keep the best original correct parts on the best engine's I have.  

But again, like in the other thread, you kind of have to satisfy yourself with where you draw the lines.   The guidelines are out there and based on the other threads, we also know a lot of us can see the same thing in slightly different views or interpretations. 

By the way, after reading through those TCA guidelines and noticing that the line between zincpest is C6 and C7... I would have thought a crumbled frame would take it way down but I guess not.

If the rods are rusted that means the plating has worn off. Polishing won't restore the original finish but they can be cleaned, polished then replated.

Top replated with tin, bottom original.

Caswell plating has inexpensive kits that will plate tin, brass, copper or any metal you will find on tinplate.

Pete

I've been tempted to try the Caswell kits, how do you like them, and how far does the initial batch go in replating those old parts?

I am using their brush plating kit. A complete kit of metals like copper, tin, or brass is about 45 bucks. You only need one complete kit. For other metals you just need the solution and brush applicator.

These kits are for plating small parts, any detail part that is applied to an engine or car. Its not for plating a complete car. For that you would need a plating tank which is an order of magnitude more expensive.

A brush plating kit would likely last a lifetime or at least 500 pieces of the valve gear shown above. 

Pete

Thanks Pete,  I had thought about the tank kits.  Saw the brush on kits and thought that can't possibly offer a nice finish, but glad to hear your feedback.  Might help me decide in the future.

Like painting, finish is all about the prep. If the metal is polished to a high gloss before plating it will have that same gloss after plating. Brush plating only puts down a thin covering, maybe less than .001". It won't fill scratches. But so far it has proven durable. Parts I plated 12 years ago look the same today as then.

Pete

I get good results with a SandFlex fine grit block...

Mitch 

Commercial plating is relatively inexpensive and offers a variety of finishes.

hi harbor freight rock tumblers work great you can buy the grit you need and put inside the drum with the rods or what ever you need polished. then get a piece of stainless steel sheet metal and punch out washers  that are punched out with a special 2 piece one end cutter and the other fits outside the cutter as you tighten the bolt it shears the washers of and leaves sharp edges these edges wear down in the rock tumbler and then coat the side rods etc and leaves a beautiful finish also does an excellent finish on the older metal wheels on older cars and look like brand new. ounce you put out the initial investment you can use this setup for years at that point you only have to purchase sheets of stainless steel metal when you need more my brother taught me this trick and believe me you  will like the result's! 

p.s. the see metal should not be to thick for best results maybe 1/16 but no more than 1/8 if possible. ounce the sharp edges where off the cut washers you need to make new ones and your ready again to polish anything you need  on the wheels or side rods etc.

Alan 

You an try to soak the items in Evapor Rust Removal solution first. Then I would use OOOO steel wool (a fellow above uses 3 “o” steel wool but the 4”o” is a bit finer and will leave no scratckes. To try to polish the metal, I would use a polish called NeverDull as it does not leave any white residu when it dries. If this is not a satisfactory result for you, at least the metal would be ready for plating. Just clean parts with actions or alcohol first.

The response to my question has been tremendous.  I have a bunch of follow-up questions, but it will take until tomorrow to organize them.  Meanwhile, I would like to thank all for the variey of ideas.  One way or another they will help me.

Two immediate questions.

1.  What kind of pating did Lionel use ?  I've heard references to nickel, tin and chrome..

2. Did American Flyer and Marx plate locomotive parts ?

I mentioned in a thread a few days back that I restore gramophones, I often find them with the nickel finish worn off or rusted through (as with your driving rods). At that point, if the material underneath is steel or iron, I usually go ahead and use a wire brush or a sanding block to remove the oxidation and what's left of the plating. Polished steel still looks a lot better than corroded nickel and rust.

mlaughlinnyc posted:

The response to my question has been tremendous.  I have a bunch of follow-up questions, but it will take until tomorrow to organize them.  Meanwhile, I would like to thank all for the variey of ideas.  One way or another they will help me.

Two immediate questions.

1.  What kind of pating did Lionel use ?  I've heard references to nickel, tin and chrome..

2. Did American Flyer and Marx plate locomotive parts ?

 

 

My knowledge of pre war is limited. I only posted because the OP mentioned a 675. Most of the post war was tin plated. Many post war reproduction parts are nickel plated and stand out like a sore thumb when next to original tin plate. References are made to nickel rimmed drivers which makes sense because its harder than tin. They obviously used a lot of copper and brass in the piping and other attachments. As for chrome I will leave that to the pre war tinplate experts.

Pete

Thanks Brian, nice to know someone shares that opinion.

From what Pete says, it sounds like I should get that brush plating kit he mentions.  If all of the side rods and valve gear are tin plated, that would be worth the trouble and expense for me.  I'm also thinking about the drum or vibration methods to smooth the surfaces.

Pete, I can't find that 45 buck kit you mention on Caswell's web site.  Can you tell what to look for ?

mlaughlinnyc posted:

rtraincollector posted:

I use nevr-dul we use to use it in the Navy to shine brass 

Is that the same as the Brasso or Noxon that I used in the army ?

Brasso I doubt Noxon no idea what that is. Ner-dul come in a can and is a treated like cotton material. You just rub with it and then wipe off. 

The one I am using is called plug and plate kit. Here is the one for tin.

http://www.caswellplating.com/...n-plate-tin-kit.html

It comes with a wall wart and applicator. If you want to do other metals you only need to get the solution and an applicator specific to that metal. The wall warts are the same. Price varies by metal. 

The link has a video which shows how it works. 

Pete

mlaughlinnyc posted:

The response to my question has been tremendous.  I have a bunch of follow-up questions, but it will take until tomorrow to organize them.  Meanwhile, I would like to thank all for the variey of ideas.  One way or another they will help me.

Two immediate questions.

1.  What kind of pating did Lionel use ?  I've heard references to nickel, tin and chrome..

2. Did American Flyer and Marx plate locomotive parts ?

 

 

Don't quote me but early postwar rods nickel plated then as time went on they were Cadium plated.

In past when i tried a wire wheel dremel i went thru some of the plating and it has a brass type color under , the next time i has a small enough brass brush for the dremel and it worked rather well,

But since then i use turtle was chrome polish and or an oxide black bar and run the dremels buffing wheel  to get some on it and then buff away lightly then switch wheels and put the white oxide on the dremels wheel for a real nice shiny finish.

I have done the dremel buffing as mentioned above on the  spotlights on the prewar 820 searchlight car and it came out nice but a lot of work. Have another 820 to do and may try a liquid polish to see if it is easier or not.

Here is an example of a modern repro nickle plated eccentric rod next to tin plated main and side rods. When you put them next to each other the difference is obvious.

Pete

rtraincollector posted:

mlaughlinnyc posted:

rtraincollector posted:

I use nevr-dul we use to use it in the Navy to shine brass 

Is that the same as the Brasso or Noxon that I used in the army ?

Brasso I doubt Noxon no idea what that is. Ner-dul come in a can and is a treated like cotton material. You just rub with it and then wipe off. 

Never dull does not leave the white film like Brasso. I used it for years on my live RC steamboats engine and boilers and bright work.

Couple of things

First - THANKS for the info on the Caswell brush plating kit - great deal for all that it does, and his video (although a little unfocused), contains a LOT of information about how to use the products. Interesting that some metal plating requires a copper of brass plate before the final shiny plating gets done.  I would stay away from cadmium if you can - a very toxic metal.

Also - I use a metal polishing cream called MAAS - it works great, use very sparingly and rub. Like magic. I have found it in the past in Home Depot. Have also used Simichrome - seems like the same stuff. Amazon and Walmart show MAAS in their product list.  About $8. I have not done the 0000 steel wool before the MAAS, that may be all you need to shine up old valve gear unless rusty.

Jim

Norton posted:

Here is an example of a modern repro nickle plated eccentric rod next to tin plated main and side rods. When you put them next to each other the difference is obvious.

Pete

Interesting.  So I really have to check what the original plating might have been before doing anything.  I'm going to go through my collection of locomotives for restore or renovation, catalog finish appearances and photograph them.

So at various times Lionel used tin and at others nickel.  If the cadmium was after 1949 I don't need to think about it as that is the last year for me. 

Is there a time line for tinplate and nickel ?  Was tinplate used on parts such as latch couplers and wheels and axles ?  When was nickel first used other than on drivers ?  Is there an end year for tinplate ?

BTW, one reason for 1949 as my cutoff year is avoiding the nuisance of Magnetraction.  It picks up screws and hides them where I don't think to look.

ML

I believe most "silver" trim pieces should be nickel on tinplate. Usually the tinplated items are the parts being painted (body parts). Nickel is a warmer color than tin, shouldn't be very difficult to tell them apart.

Polished tin should look more similar to the chrome, just an example so you can see the difference.

You can always forget about being shiny and use gun blue.
I tried that on a 221 Streamline post war loco that I m working with, have two sets of valve gear.
The original was in bad shape so I  cleaned them and blued them and ordered a set of shiny repros.
Do not know what I will be going with at this time, depend on the Loco's finish, doing mods.

Norton posted:

The one I am using is called plug and plate kit. Here is the one for tin.

http://www.caswellplating.com/...n-plate-tin-kit.html

It comes with a wall wart and applicator. If you want to do other metals you only need to get the solution and an applicator specific to that metal. The wall warts are the same. Price varies by metal. 

The link has a video which shows how it works. 

Pete

Pete - thanks so much for the link - this looks great, not too expensive and about right for the small parts we are talking about.

Jim

The main problem is cleaning corrosion off. Corrosion has already taken the original plating off or damaged it. There really is no easy way to "fix" it without causing more damage to the original part and what was left of its finish. Years ago I used to do the tumbling thing. Took forever and too many steps. Was never happy with the results either. Over the years I tried different methods. Today I try to clean the corrosion off with Mothers Mag and Aluminum Polish. If the corrosion is too tough then I have to resort to using the Dremel and a wire brush. Then go back to the Mothers. If I have to use the Dremel with a polishing wheel and the Mothers it makes it go faster and gives a good shine. I would say 75% of the time its not possible to completely get rid of the original corrosion damage. For Post War pieces, its just easier and less expensive and time consuming to buy new replacement parts. For some pre war parts that are not damaged to the base metal, re-plating is an option. I use the Eastwood Electro Plating Kit:  https://www.eastwood.com/ew-el...system-tin-zinc.html   It comes with everything you need to do the job and you can dip/submerge, or use the brush. I have saved number plates, name plates, and "L" plates and Handrails from pre war locos using this kit. Be sure to use fresh batteries, and have the original surface cleaned properly for the plating to take.

Tin

I'm posting this on a couple of the topics in which I've been active recently, about the Sprimgfield show.  I'd be interested in meeting. others in this group and attaching real people to names.  Anyone interested ?

IT was suggested on one topic that we meet for a group photo at 1:00 at OGR or RCS.  I'll be there.  I'll be in Springfield for setup on Friday afternoon/evening, dinner on Friday and until early afternoon Friday.