To start over or not

Sounds like you answered your own question.  By all means, start over.  I've got a hunch you won't regret it.

Pete

Your resoning for the move sounds logical and a win-win for the family....plus anything going forward will likely be even better now that you have refined your skills!!

We all ponder this question at some point. And only you can answer it. To me, it comes down to what you gain. Most of us re-did the layout to gain more size, but from what you have described, this may not apply. From what you describe, a new layout would give you the ability to isolate the layout and at the same time build it better because of the experience you have gained from you current layout. If the budget is tight, you may not be able to do what you would like with a new layout.

As Pete has said, I think from your comments you have already answered your question.

I have always known that my current layout was my "learning" layout and there are parts I would do very different then what I have now. 

Your statement here is why I'm in the rebuild mode currently. The last two years of learning on this site proved I didn't know anything about trains, building techniques , landscaping or much of anything else for that matter when it comes to this hobby. This one will probably take me a year plus working a lot of hours.  But I'm having fun. That's what I think old retired guys are suppose to do. Not saying your old and retired.I think you should go for it.

Larry

I'm going thru the same thing. Debating whether to start over or not!! I want to increase my radius from 072 to !!!!!

My layout started in the downstairs bedroom, and most of it is still there.  I expanded into the next room with a major addition.  A section of wall was removed, and the laundry was moved to the second floor.  Click to access some construction pictures. Click to enlarge thumbnail pictures.  Both rooms can be returned to normal with minimal work, except for removing all the train related stuff.

I love the idea.  It takes several layouts until you get all the lessons learned worked out...  Haveing your own space sounds wonderful.

I think you will find the folded dogbone will get you closer to the action and the trains and is better than a large rectangular trainboard.  Also much eaiser to build and work on.

This is an opportunuity to start again, I would not look at it as lost work, you learn as your build.  I have built 5 layouts in the last 15 years!  Each one gets better!

I was in your shoes a few months ago. I will be starting a new topic on my layout within the week but I was unhappy with a number of "minor" issues on my old layout that would be rather difficult to fix satisfactorily while not rebuilding the majority of the layout. After much debate, I fired up the power saw and tore it down. Rebuilt a smaller layout, 4x8 now. So far so good. No track issues such as the ones that plagued the old layout and it is much more easy to manage. Very happy so far. I had reservations about doing so but opted it was for the best. In the process, and currently still in progress, I have reduced my collection significantly. I don't have the room to store, run or ability to maintain as many engines, cars, etc as I had accumulated. Frees up tremendous room, time, etc. 

Old

New

Just ask yourself if you will be happy with your present layout ten years from now. Fred

JIm, I too think that you have answered your own questions as posted by Pete in the first reply. You are indeed fortunate to have the option and especially the experience you've gained from this forum...

I'll agree with what others have said above in that it sounds like you've answered your own question, i.e. you've been planning to build a new layout at sometime.

But hey, having to stop running your trains and invest more money... That would make anyone hesitate.

Maybe you can setup up a temporary floor layout that you and your kids can run and play with while basic construction for the new layout is underway.

My suggestion for your new layout is to plan some design features that allow the layout to be removed in the future. That is, incorporate some module type features like designing the benchwork in sections... ??? Maybe this is an option for you. Maybe not. But perhaps you'll want/need to move the layout again sometime down the road.

I've noticed a lot of layouts are "permanent", meaning constructed in place with no planning for possible relocation. That's fine until the day the layout has to move, and they all have to move at some point...

I have been planning a tinplate layout designed from the ground up to be dissembled for relocation. The layout won't be a true modular layout that is regularly transported and setup, but it will break down without performing major destruction. Modular benchwork, color coded molle connected wiring, disassemble/assembly instructions, etc. Even the backdrop will be painted on panel sections that can be removed, i.e. not painted directly on the walls.

The idea is that the layout can be taken down and moved whether I'm still around or not.

Anyway, have fun whatever you decide to do.

Bert

I had sort of the opposite experience from yours. 

We finished the basement several years ago. Big job with lots of custom work, lighting, full bath, closets, nice open space in the ”main” area and an extra guest bedroom. I thought about putting my layout in the bedroom but it turns out it gets used all the time for visiting relatives and guests. Certainly not on a regular basis but enough so that putting a train layout would have been a big mistake. So I managed to carve out my layout space in the main area, albeit a back corner out of the way of foot traffic. Worked out great for me.

So even though it’s mostly vacant now, I guess you have to judge the potential use of your bedroom on into the future. If you think it’s not really going to get much use, go for it!       

I think you should go for the expansion or change, and like the above poster build in modules.If you could, also a good time to move walls. My layout as changed three times in the last 14 years. And still reusing the same bench work, track,switches,ballast,mountains and most wire. On the last change, most modules stayed the same including scenery and ballast. Just some expansion and track elevation change.  

The first step is hard to take but I think you will not regret it.

Good luck!

Dave

I would recommend going ahead and doing it: otherwise, the urge to do so will fester forever.

But: I also recommend you keep this in mind.  Every layout you ever build is a learning experience. There will be a third you want to build, and maybe a fourth.  That's how it is.  Now, that does not go on forever: I'm on my sixth layout (that I built as an adult, I had two or three others as a kid).  This current one is my last.  It's not perfect - no layout ever is - and it could be improved, but five previous layouts provided a lot of learning and I could not improve my current one a lot, at what would be a very high cost to build another, so its the last.  You'll get to this point, too, if you start down this road, but like many people including me, your last layout will probably not be the second one you build.

Rip that sucker out of there!!!!  The sooner you start the sooner you'll be done.  And who ever has the train budget they would like to have?  You can always use more More MORE.  I say go ahead and Just Do It!!!

Rick

Wow I am so surprised at all the replies so quickly!

While I have not officially secured the space yet, the wife so far thinks it is a good idea.  

I plan to measure out the space today and play with it in RR tracks to see what kind of layout I can come up with.  

The train budget is the biggest factor in rebuilding.  I will work it out with the wife and see if I can get a slight increase in the budget.  Might have to give up some other things in the meantime!

Use your sharp negotiating skills to acquire the new room (and layout) without giving up the old one!  Simple!

In our basement we have two smaller bedroom-size rooms, one has my current layout.  I managed to negotiate the second one to be the location for a soon to be built tinplate layout.  Thought about combining rooms ,but I like the idea of two (small) separate layouts.

One is in a 12 x 12 room, the other will be in a 15 x 10 room, but just 4.5 x 10.5 feet in size.

I personally enjoy the "building" part - maybe even more than the "running" part.

Go for it!

Ed

Did you consider adding a bathroom to accomodate your in laws? If the plumbing is in the wrong place because it's a basement you can use this:http://mobile.zoeller.com/prod...k-jon-ultima-202-203

We will be adding a bathroom in the future, and all the plumbing is all in the right spot where our location will be.  The issue is we have other work on the house that takes a much higher priority 1st.  Even though I would do 90% of the work on the bathroom myself time and budget keep it on the back burner for a few more years.  

For me, I want to pass on a negative to rebuilding.  I have a layout that I started without the knowledge necessary to build the dream.  I do not have the need to move it to a better location but I certainly could improve the layout by redistributing the table top in a better arrangement.  I have asked this question many times - should I start over? 

My answer is no.  Financially, it would cost a ton and I keep a budget like you.  There is so much more I can do to what I have.  I started with a classic toy train O27 track Postwar layout on a 4'x8'.  Now I have 300+ sq feet..  I started as an operator and now I am developing the skills to ballast the track, snicker the landscape and develop my modeling skills.  This will definitely keep me busy and keeps me on track with my budget.

The most important question for you is not to rebuild but to make a decision on the location.  If moving is desirable and necessary then rebuilding is necessary.  If you enjoy your location and have more room, I would stay where you are.  You never have enough room.  The kids will grow up and remember it is a "toy" so let them enjoy it with you.  I have 16 grandchildren ages 2 - 15 years and they love the trains.  Yes they break them, but that just gives me another reason to work on the layout.....

Just sayin'.....

Sounds like a good move - move to a better space that is separate from important family space.   Starting over can be great fun and creative. 

Here is a list of must haves if I proceed with a new layout.  I am sure things will be added or subtracted as I progress with a track plan.

1) Single Track "Mainline".  I want to keep things prototypical as possible since operations is my main focus.  I am doing a small branch line so double tracks is out of the question.

2) Engine servicing facilities.  I already own 2 engine sheds that are currently stored under my layout since I removed them when I added the car ferry.  This will be in a featured spot in my new layout to service the 3 steam locomotives that the Michigan and Great Lakes owns.

3) Great Lakes Car Ferry with proper yard to service it.  Right now my car ferry is an add on to my layout and I only have a small yard to service it.  It must be the main feature of the layout with a proper yard.  The car ferry holds 10 scale cars so the yard should accommodate 20 scale cars.  The new layout also needs to have a good size switching lead so I don't tie up the mainline.

4) More industries.  Right now I have a factory, a grain elevator, and the car ferry on my layout.  The new layout must have at least 2 more sidings for more operational opportunities.   

5) Hidden staging.  Either under the layout or along the wall just outside of the train room.  I have my desk and computer just outside of the current bedroom and it would be a perfect area to have a shelf where a train exits the layout and is stored right behind the desk.  

6) Must reuse most of my current track.  Even though I regret building a Fastrack Layout int he 1st place I will keep the "Mainline" Fastrack and using Ross/Gargraves for all the secondary track and yards.  I think I could build the layout without buying much additional track and turnouts, the biggest cost factor.  

Another good reason for rebuilding is right now really only one person can operate the layout at a time.  I want to build this for operations and would love to have it so that 2 or 3 people could run the layout and have mini operating sessions with a friend or my son as he gets older.  

Go for it.

I started with a 4 x 12 layout. I was fortunate that I was able to add sections. The add ons are about 6 x 10 and I have done 3 add ons. It is amazing the difference in the different add ons. As I learn they get better and better.

Pretty soon I will be out of add on room. AT that point I will tear down the original area and rebuild that. I am fortunate to have the room to do this. This way I always have sections open to run while an area is under construction.

My guess would be your new layout will be awesome compared to the old one using the knowledge and skills you have aquired since the first one.

I'd do some track planning once you have good measurements for the empty room. Do that before making a commitment to starting over.

Jeff C

Jim,  I have all of the Fastrack I pulled up from my layout when I moved a few months ago.  9 switches in addition to all the track.

I will not be using Fastrack on my new layout.  Let me know if you would be interested in acquiring it from me at a deep discount.

Go for it and never look back. You will not be disappointed. I am now in the process of doing the same thing.........maybe you remember my layout or not........it was the cover feature article in Run #255 Feb / March 2012. It will be completely dismantled and rebuilt as a much larger layout in my basement. Stayed tuned........

Donald

Charlie

I will keep you in mind.  I will be looking to make a trackplan tonight and see what I might need.  I am sure my trackplan will change over and over though.

I would definitely say start over if the new room is bigger, or you're going to combine the two rooms. If you're just going to "move" the layout to another room without gaining much space, I wouldn't do it. You can always take scenery up on you're current layout and re-do it. Re-do the track placement as well.

Actually the new room will be slightly smaller then my current layout.  I will not be gaining any space.  What I will be gaining is 4 walls, to do a around the room layout.  Right now I have to have an access hatch to reach the inside of my layout.  The new room will allow me to have everything within reach of the aisle ways

Do it for sure.  Everything looks good on paper until you build it.  Then you build and realize all the things you wish were different.  My problem is I have a hard time settling and try to incorporate too much.  Sometimes I contemplate just laying it all out on the floor again and getting back to playing with trains.

You have a chance now to improve, so go for it.  It best not to think of anything as permanent anyway.

Sell, auction, or donate it all...layout, locos and cars. 

Purchase the shelf layout books by Lance Mindheim and Ian Rice and start building in another scale...S or HO.

Start fresh!

Dude ......GO FOR IT.Start the teardown TONIGHT.It wont cost that much.You have the benchwork.You may modify it a little.You have the track.You may add a little.You have the trains....you have the control system.Scenery is the cheapest part of the thing IMO.As for the THOUSANDS of hours you put in...don't worry about that.You are not loosing that.You had fun,you enjoyed your self.You gained the knowledge to create a supreme railroad.Forge ahead BUILD...... your EMPIRE just like the Vanderbilts did. 

I agree w/ Texas Pete, but would advise you, additionally, to document it all photographically. You'll be glad you took the time to do so. I am glad I did.

FrankM

To me the solution is easy.  Do not tear down your layout, expand into the bedroom for a larger layout.  Just cut openings in the drywall for access and run the track into the room.

Then you can have a clean slate to work with.  Just remove scenery on your current layout and remodel it to your liking.  A whole lot less work!

I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't use the current space as you plan to that much in the future anyway.  Layout space is precious, gather all you can!

Most of the lumber and wiring can be reused, as previously mentioned. A lot of everything could be reused. So, new framing and track seem to be the budgetary hurdle. Selling off items can reduce that cost.

I do like TrainDiesel's approach (and others) to acquire the new space without relinquishing the old. Empire Buider, train Baron! Before you know it, the children won't be home much at all. Start stacking some of your stuff in the room and take ownership while you ponder. Many barons acquired land and didn't build new lines. But, the acquisitions proved valuable in future endeavors.