Top 5 Iconic PRR Locomotives

Just my opinion but, I think the PRR had only one REALLY good, well engineered & reliable performing steam locomotive,,,,,,,,,,,that being the J1/J1a 2-10-4. Thus, MY list of top 5 PRR locomotives would be:

1) J1/J1a 2-10-4

2) EMD E7

3) EMD GP7/GP9

4) EMD GP40/GP40-2

5) EMD SD40/SD40-2

I am not a fan of the duplexii.    So I won't put the T1 in the top 5.    Unfortunatly it came too late in the steam era to get the bugs worked out.

#1  The I1 2-10-0.    Prr had 598 of them them.   They moved the freight through Pennsylvania mountains for many years very successfully.     The classic pennsy train in the rough terrain had 2 on the front and 2 on the back.    2 I1s were the pennsy equivalent of an articualted.

#2  The K4 4-6-2.    The built these starting in about 1918 until 1928.    There were about 425 I think.   They lasted in top line passenger service until the end of steam.      Their longevity and the size of the fleet makes them very successful.

#3   The M1/M1A 4-8-2.    I know, 2 classes but very similar.    The M1A was a much modernized M1.    The mountains were the dominent power on the MIddle Diveisn from the Early 1930s until WWII when the J1s started to show up

#4   The H8/9/10 class consolidations.    These were the work horses close to the customers doing the first and last mile of the freight work.     They also served as switchers  where something heavier than a B6 was preferred.     Any photo  of an engine terminal or busy  yard would show a few.

#5   The B6 0-6-0.    While most RRs had large fleets of 0-8-0 pennsy had a large fleet of 0-6-0s with iconic slope back tenders.     The B6 is what comes to mind to many people when they think of switcher pro bably because it has a unique and recognized look.

While the PRR T1 Duplex is an interesting locomotive, it wasn't all that trouble-free in use.  It was high maintenance and very prone to wheel slip unless the engineer was on his game.  However, it was reputed to be one of the fastest steamers that PRR rostered, and was reputed to regularly exceed 100 mph.  The first prototype did hit 100 mph, so those stories were reasonable to believe.  I personally believe that all that power on too few drive wheels was one of the major issues with wheel slip.

1. GG1

2. E44

3. K4

4. E6 (steam) (includes the "Lindbergh" engine)

5.BP20 (Sharknose passsenger)

1)Class B6 0-6-0

2)Class B6s 0-6-0

3)Class B6sb 0-6-0

4)Class B29 0-6-0

5)Class B8 0-6-0

That's just me though.

Tom

@prrjim posted:

I am not a fan of the duplexii.    So I won't put the T1 in the top 5.    Unfortunatly it came too late in the steam era to get the bugs worked out.

#1  The I1 2-10-0.    Prr had 598 of them them.   They moved the freight through Pennsylvania mountains for many years very successfully.     The classic pennsy train in the rough terrain had 2 on the front and 2 on the back.    2 I1s were the pennsy equivalent of an articualted.

#2  The K4 4-6-2.    The built these starting in about 1918 until 1928.    There were about 425 I think.   They lasted in top line passenger service until the end of steam.      Their longevity and the size of the fleet makes them very successful.

#3   The M1/M1A 4-8-2.    I know, 2 classes but very similar.    The M1A was a much modernized M1.    The mountains were the dominent power on the MIddle Diveisn from the Early 1930s until WWII when the J1s started to show up

#4   The H8/9/10 class consolidations.    These were the work horses close to the customers doing the first and last mile of the freight work.     They also served as switchers  where something heavier than a B6 was preferred.     Any photo  of an engine terminal or busy  yard would show a few.

#5   The B6 0-6-0.    While most RRs had large fleets of 0-8-0 pennsy had a large fleet of 0-6-0s with iconic slope back tenders.     The B6 is what comes to mind to many people when they think of switcher pro bably because it has a unique and recognized look.

Those are mine as well and those are the engines on my layout! My PRR Atlantic has the same boiler as the Consolidation so I would naturally include that.

E6s 4-4-2 Atlantic - one of the best Atlantic designs (The Apex of the Atlantics), could outperform contemporary Pacifics, lasted to the end of steam, and never got face lifted.

I1s/I1sa 2-10-0 Decapod - 598 built as the largest class of that wheel arrangement in North America (not even close in Europe) the main freight hauler on the PRR's mainlines.

M1/M1a/M1b 4-8-2 Mountain - Atterbury's engine, an excellent dual purpose locomotive, able to handle fast freights and heavy passenger trains.

H8s/H9s/H10s 2-8-0 Consolidation - the work-a-day freight locomotive for local and heavy branch lines, and the LTRR mainline freights.

G5s 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler - The ultimate steam commuter engine, being the third iteration of the same boiler on the "big" Atlantic and Consolidations.

K4s 4-6-2 Pacific and L1s 2-8-2 Mikado - 1000 locomotives using the same boiler in passenger and freight service.  Saw service over the entire system.

(Yeah, I know that was seven locomotives, but I couldn't reduce the count below that.)

Stuart

This is one of those questions that is going to give a ton of different answers because of time periods. Also based on the the manufacturers and what they produce.

Just by doing a few searches some engines keep coming up constantly which again is no real surprise. You search PRR you're going to get GG1, T1 Duplex, K4, Consolidation, E8, S1, S2, E6, M1 mainly because of preservation or modeling popularity.

If it went to the wire, K4 & GG1 would probably be tied for first as far as popularity like is said. I did forget to mention the J1(sorry about that) as sure they would come up as well.

If you went to performance, well, I haven't a clue on that but I'm sure that there would be engines that would be the unsung heroes.

Some other engines that came up were the Q1 and other experimental locomotives as well.

Well, the GG1 almost has to make a list like this as it had a very long service life, even outlasted the PRR.

@Hot Water posted:

Just my opinion but, I think the PRR had only one REALLY good, well engineered & reliable performing steam locomotive,,,,,,,,,,,that being the J1/J1a 2-10-4.

I agree.
I suppose if one wanted to split hairs, the PRR J1/J1a was technically a C&O locomotive and not truly a PRR designed locomotive.
The C&O T1 2-10-4 was a Lima Locomotive Works 'Superpower' design based on the requirements of the C&O by scaling up an Erie Berkshire 2-8-4.
From one of my older C&O Historical Society's Newsletters that had an article on the C&O T1, there a was quote about the PRR J1/J1 as...
"...regarded by many as the finest steam locomotives ever operated by the PRR".

@Bryan Smith posted:

I agree.
I suppose if one wanted to split hairs, the PRR J1/J1a was technically a C&O locomotive and not truly a PRR designed locomotive.

Exactly!!

The C&O T1 2-10-4 was a Lima Locomotive Works 'Superpower' design based on the requirements of the C&O by scaling up an Erie Berkshire 2-8-4.
From one of my older C&O Historical Society's Newsletters that had an article on the C&O T1, there a was quote about the PRR J1/J1 as...
"...regarded by many as the finest steam locomotives ever operated by the PRR".

That is also exactly why the PRR J1/J1a steam locomotive was my first choice

One other point; as good as the M1 class locomotives were,,,,,,,,,,who would build such a "modern" high horsepower steam locomotive with a dome throttle????

If I did the list again it might be different.    Iconic is kind of key word thought vs engineering or design features.     Certainly the G5 and J1 deserve mention.  

As far as electrics, I grew up west of Pittsburgh, and I never saw them or heard of them growing up.    When I was kid and saw lionel versions I had no idea what they were.     And I guess I didn't consider diesels just because.

As for manufacturers and availability, that points to models.    I thought the question was PRR locomotives, not models of locomotives.

Iconic. For me it was the small fleet of GP30s and GP35s. We lived 6 mi from the PRR Allegheny Branch/Conemaugh Line with hills intervening  plus the railroad was in the Allegheny River valley. When the '30s came along, for the first time I could hear them from our house. You see, that weird EMD early-turbo loud syncopating exhaust sound carried over the hills to my ears.

I would add (for myself) the K4s because although I certainly saw many examples of Pennsy Steam when haunting Horseshoe Curve I have no clear memories. I do have clear memories of the night Buffalo train rolling up the Allegheny across the River from our camp and it was (of course) always drawn by a K4. Once we rowed across the river and picked up my sister who had stepped off the train at Rimer/Rimerton (but by then it was a Diesel at the head end-1958).

It is worthwhile noting that the only 645 engined locomotives ever on the Pennsy were SD40s. No GP40s and by the time the Dash-Twos came on line the Pennsylvania Railroad was no more.....a victim of the ill-fated (and some argue ill-conceived) Penn Central merger.

1, GG1

2, K4s

3, S1

4, T1

5, Streamline K4 3768

Charlie

I would go

B6sb

K4

E6

M1

H10

My list:

1. I1s
2. K4s
3. M1a/b
4. T1
5. GG1

The J1 would make the list if a 6th choice were permitted.  And I think someone's warm water picks are all wet. 

George

GG-1

K4s

G5s

BB1

J1

Jon

1) T1 - Probably the fastest steam locomotive ever built in regular service.  (The S1 may rival it but it couldn’t operate east of the mountain.).  Well ahead of its time and a quite a sight to look at.  The main problem was the inferior metal used on the poppet valves, and the ones coverted to Walschaerts were reportedly trouble free.  We’ll know more for sure when 5550 is done.

2) I1/s/as - King of coal drags and strings of ore jennies.  Hard to argue with, having 600 in the class.  Took only one try for the PRR to do a decapod right.

3) K4s - Again with over 400 in the class, a real money maker for the PRR and a classic look for a steam locomotive.

4) GG1 - Iconic design, versatile, and a favorite of many.

5) Q2 - Most powerful rigid frame locomotive ever built with one purpose, crossing the Allegrippus.

The OP asked for iconic Pennsy locomotives, which to me does not mean their best locomotives.  Iconic Pennsy locomotives to me are ones that make you think of the Pennsy when they are mentioned.

I don't believe the Pennsy had any diesels built specifically for them.  So to me diesels are out, although I could see the passenger shark on the list since only the Pennsy had them.  However, that was because Baldwin couldn't sell them to anyone else.

I also think the J1 should not be on this list.  Yes it was a good steam engine (better than the Q2?), but it was not a Pennsy engine.  The Pennsy was forced to build it due to wartime restrictions.

So, here are mine in no particular order since that could be argued forever.  See above for reasons.

GG1

G5

Decapod

T1

K4

@PRR8976 posted:

1)Class B6 0-6-0

2)Class B6s 0-6-0

3)Class B6sb 0-6-0

4)Class B29 0-6-0

5)Class B8 0-6-0

That's just me though.

Tom

Not sure, but I think I’m seeing a pattern there, Tom. As the old question goes, is your needle stuck in the groove

Probably an odd foursome, but my favorite Pennsy power would be:

GG-1

T1

S1

Centipede

and an engine to be named later

Picking a top 5 was too difficult for me, so I picked 7.

1. J1a

2. GG1

3. M1A

4. K4

5. F7/F3

6. RF16

7. B6

Pat

For me the GG1 has to be the most iconic, due in no small measure to Lionel's model and also because all of us Eastern old-timers rode behind it. After that the K4 and E-6. Then it's a tossup. The T1 is certainly unique and an artistic design wonder if a mechanical also ran.

@Hot Water posted:

........ MY list of top 5 PRR locomotives would be:

4) EMD GP40/GP40-2

Well, that IS surprising.   But "Mr EMD" has spoken.....

Iconic is in the eye of the beholder, surely.

Were I ever again to hear that oddball syncopating exhaust produced by a GP30 I would think Pennsy! because in 1963 for the first time I heard trains on the PRR six miles away.

I never saw a T1 alive, only as a long row of sad dead husks on the Scrap Line, so not iconic for me:

I could make a case for the Centipede because I do remember them on Horseshoe Curve where they had been ignominiously relegated to Pusher duty. As a little kid I was fascinated by all those wheels:

Marketed by Baldwin as heavy fast passenger Power (at 6000HP a direct replacement for a T1) they were a flop because one-off custom built (like ALL steam power always had been) couldn't begin to compete with an off-the-shelf E7/E8/E9.

Iconic is defined as:

@CAPPilot posted:

The OP asked for iconic Pennsy locomotives, which to me does not mean their best locomotives.  Iconic Pennsy locomotives to me are ones that make you think of the Pennsy when they are mentioned.

This is the list I was asking for your ranking, when I said iconic.

But all other lists were appreciated and educational.

I have to agree, "iconic" doesn't mean "best", and it should be something inherently Pennsy, not something mass produced with a coat of DGLE and a keystone slapped on it. As such, in no particular order, here is my list (which may very well vary from yours):

GG1 - As someone already mentioned, they outlasted the PRR.

K4s - When you think steam passenger power, this is it.

T1 - Mechanical issues? Sure. Too late? Sure. Only 52 1:1 scale were ever made, but there are thousands of models of them out there. That's "iconic".

I1s - While I actually prefer the L1s (the "mother of heavy mikes"), the I1s was pretty much the face of the PRR's heavy freight operations from its inception to the end of steam operations.

Metroliner - Yes, it never ran in revenue service for the PRR, but it was developed and built for them, and a set ran about wearing the keystone. Reliability was always an issue, and they proved short-lived, but as America's first realistic entry into "high speed passenger service" (despite rarely actually running anywhere near their theoretical speed due to traffic, rail conditions, and other issues) it was certainly "iconic", and riding in the cab with the speed display showing in excess of 100 mph is one of my fondest memories growing up...

@Hot Water posted:

@Bryan Smith posted:

I agree.
I suppose if one wanted to split hairs, the PRR J1/J1a was technically a C&O locomotive and not truly a PRR designed locomotive.

Exactly!!

The C&O T1 2-10-4 was a Lima Locomotive Works 'Superpower' design based on the requirements of the C&O by scaling up an Erie Berkshire 2-8-4.
From one of my older C&O Historical Society's Newsletters that had an article on the C&O T1, there a was quote about the PRR J1/J1 as...
"...regarded by many as the finest steam locomotives ever operated by the PRR".

That is also exactly why the PRR J1/J1a steam locomotive was my first choice

One other point; as good as the M1 class locomotives were,,,,,,,,,,who would build such a "modern" high horsepower steam locomotive with a dome throttle????

Wasn't the first M1 also hand fired?

Stuart

@Hot Water posted:

Just my opinion but, I think the PRR had only one REALLY good, well engineered & reliable performing steam locomotive,,,,,,,,,,,that being the J1/J1a 2-10-4. Thus, MY list of top 5 PRR locomotives would be:

1) J1/J1a 2-10-4

2) EMD E7

3) EMD GP7/GP9

4) EMD GP40/GP40-2

5) EMD SD40/SD40-2

The PRR ended with the PC merger in 1968.  About 4 years before the -2's.

As an (almost) auslander - not having grown up in the East - seems to me there are a few locomotives that are uniquely associated with the PRR, so using that as a definition of iconic, here's my contribution:

GG1 - hard to see how this isn't near the top of everyone's list.  As someone else has already noted - it was 'so good' it outlived PRR and PC, too, for that matter.  I did ride Pennsy passenger trains between Wilmington, DE and Trenton, NJ in the summer of 1966, all pulled by GG1s

T1 - while one could argue about the underlying engineering, there's little question that the Raymond Lowey design was uniquely identifiable as PRR

Baldwin Shark(nose) - while several railroads had sharks, the first picture of a shark that I saw was the PRR version with the two radio antenna 'rails' along the top.  This design was also Lowey, apparently inspired by the T1 design.

My last two suggestions are based on model trains.  The first is the K4 Pacific - the first electric train I was given (Xmas present) was the American Flyer K5 Pacific (#312) plus the green New Haven passenger cars (nevermind that the Pennsy K4 wouldn't have actually pulled NH passenger cars -- a detail that escaped me as a six-year old)

S2 - the kid down the street had a Lionel S2 engine.  We both noticed, when comparing his engine with my K5, that there were no steam cylinders and pistons on the S2, but I don't think we were 'hip' to the fact that the prototype was actually a steam turbine.  All we knew was that his Lionel trains had three rails and my Flyer had two - a source of endless arguments...!

One certainly can't argue that he 'Standard Railroad of the World' wasn't afraid to take engineering design risks - along with the T1 and S2, there were the S1 and Q1 (both Lowey designs), and the Q2

Note added:  caught by the ol' double negative.  the above should read that "one can argue that PRR wasn't afraid to take...risks".  Also, just to be clear, as I suspect most of you know, Lowey wasn't the engineering designer, but the industrial designer responsible for streamlining and styling of the locomotives.  He certainly had an illustrious career in that era, doing work for Studebaker and even the first jet-powered version of Air Force one (the 707 introduced during JFK's presidency).

My votes come from the outside-the-box thinking that the railroad was known for.

T1

S1

S2

GG1

Centipede

For me it would have to be

1. D6 - love those drivers

2. H3

3. E2

4. E6

5. K4

Icon - an object of uncritical devotion.

I can only think of two iconic  locomotives unique to PRR:  the GG1 electric and the J1/J1a 2-10-4.

To me, the K4s, Baldwin shark nose diesels were emblematic PRR locomotives.

@Number 90 posted:

Icon - an object of uncritical devotion.

I can only think of two iconic  locomotives unique to PRR:  the GG1 electric and the J1/J1a 2-10-4.

To me, the K4s, Baldwin shark nose diesels were emblematic PRR locomotives.

As usual, whenever topics like this come up, it falls under the purview of Eye Of The Beholder.

Rusty

Rusty, that was exactly my point. Depending on so many perspectives, time periods, it is all up in the air. I'm surprised no one argued(stated) streamlined K4's. Well, K4 is a K4 regardless of streamlining or not. Same could be said about Hudson's.