Tortoise switch machine, Lionel Base 3 and AtlasO

@Dntbsillynow posted:

Hi all. Looking for some help with wiring. Here is what I have. I have a Lionel Base 3, MTH Z400, and Atlas track. My Atlas switches machines are crap and I purchased tortoise machines to replace them. The information I have found online is to wire them through another switch/LED. I have a small layout and am not interested in doing that at this point. I do have the little Atlas remote switches for throwing the turnouts wired. Basically I am looking for wiring to asc2 to Base 3. My goal is to use the Cab3 to throw switches. I assume I already have the information, but I am not as adept in wiring electronics. I can follow directions of course, but the directions out there do not mention my setup. Please advise any help, please.

DNTB,

Here is my setup with the BASE3.    From the Base you will need a PDI Cable to connect the "SER2" to the Base3.  From there you will need to connect  to several ASC2's.  4 Switches per Unit. From each you need to connect directly to each Switch. That is how I did it and it works perfectly!!!

Any Questions call me, Text me or E-Mail me . The choice is yours.  Numbers in my PROFILE!!

PS................. I can operate each Switch off my CAB1, CAB2 or CAB3 !! what more could YOU ask for!!

FREDSTRAINS

Fred, I have never used an ASC. Can they be set to be on continuously in each polarity or just a pulse? Tortoise uses torque motors which are designed to not overload at stall. This also helps keep the points tight against the main rails.

Pete

Pete, I looked into this at one time. If I’m reading the instructions correctly. You can setup the ASC to either send a momentary pulse or an on, off. It doesn’t sound like you can mix and match the setup. They all have to be the same. As the Tortoise requires a constant flow of voltage. I’m guessing you would use the on off feature like you would use for lighting say a building. The out puts would power a relay with 2 sets of contacts. You would then reverse the polarity for the Tortoise through the external relays contacts. Sort of like using the recommended toggle switch with 6 contacts.

Thanks Dave. I think I will continue using a DPDT toggle switch for my Tortoises.

Pete

@Fredstrains I sent an email. Your number is not on your profile, as far as I can see. @Norton from another thread I was instructed to get 2 ASC2, because the new Base3 removes the need to have ser2 and asc2, Asc2 is all that is needed. Apparently that is also what Lionel says. All that is good and I have all the parts and a 14 volt constant bus line, my knowledge stops there. I need to know how to go from 🐢 to ASC2 I am a novice in this hobby and some of this may seem simple to all, but much is Greek, I only know spanglish 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

That’s what I use. 35 years with no failures. I dug a little further in the manual. They do show the Tortoise hookup. Don’t know what these things cost. But it looks like you only get to control 4. Not sure my method of using the latching on off version would work though for setting routes if that was a must have. But looks like you could control 8 switches. But you have to factor in 8 relays.

Ken, sorry I can’t be more help. When you get to the point of mounting the switches to the benchwork. It’s a little more in my wheelhouse.

Watch this Lionel instruction video. It goes into great detail how to make the ASC work with a tortoise switch machine. The trick is to use inexpensive diodes that you can buy off Amazon and AC control voltage. I don’t think it’s that complex once you understand what’s going on.

Lionel ASC Controller

@dave c. This does help somewhat. Diodes? What type, size, etc. Yes, I have 2 asc2 as they can only do 4 switches and I have 6. Here is a video of the underside of my layout (somewhat) ASC2 to base3 is covered as I have the pdi cables for that. From 🐢 to asc2 is the concern.

https://youtu.be/QjDEFi6yY70?si=veiYiAu5m_kaf3jr

Tortoise switches draw about 20ma when in motion and maybe 35ma at stall. The very common 1N4001 to 1N4007 diodes would be more than adequate. They can be used in countless other applications and have been by virtually all train manufacturers.

Pete

@Norton tyvm!

Dave C posted Circuitron’s Method #3, Steering Diodes. I have also found this to be the best way to power the Tortoise machines on my layout. Posted below is the complete wiring diagram for ASC 2 control of Tortoise motors. The AC supply for the Tortoise should be 18VAC, then the half wave DC powering the motors is 9VDC. Any cheap 50V rated diode can be used, the maximum current drawn by the Tortoise is less than 20ma.

I recommend using Circuitron ZipZ connectors for Tortoise wiring. Part #800-6601.

@AmFlyer I have them coming as my soldering skills are a -54 🥴 appreciate the help!

Haven't checked in on the Newbie who gets it done!... in a bit.  I see diodes have come up... so,  I still use the 1N4001/1N4007 diodes to rectify the ac to half wave from an early 1950s ZW to run the tortoises and signals.  The ZW is dedicated to switches/signals, flood towers, building lighting and other accessories whether AC or through  AC to DC voltage regulators (Buck Converters).  It's nice having four variable power sources in a cool old school package.

Hey guys, check out my latest layout update

https://youtu.be/DlB46cVyLcE?si=DS05dd-Icimv3Nny