total package

Unfortunately my holodeck is on the fritz...

For some, perhaps, but certainly not for me.  What we have now and have had works plenty well for me.  

Also, I don't know about you guys, but, familiarity(boredom) has been a factor for me.

Things seen and done too many times, lose their appeal... after awhile.

There are probably many ways that technology could reinvent the wheel, here. Using some of our current technology, i.e. making use of large screen digital televisions/home theaters, along with some new programming technology, is one way to deliver your train fix.

No more storage, dust, environmental(weather), physical ability(in your later years, you could still participate) issues to contend with.

You could even interact, in real time, with other train friends/enthusiasts, anywhere in the world. The social benefits alone, would be great. That might help and bring comfort to those feeling isolated.

I'm seeing the glass more than half full...

Rick

Ahh, I see now...

You are talking about VIRTUAL railroading.

You may want to check out MS TrainSimulator and some of the other programs like it.

Lots of information out there in cyberspace where people have created their own virtual railroads and created locomotives and rolling stock. All of it contained within their PC or laptop.

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've created..." -Darth Vader

Rusty

The issue is: to what extent do we want to replicate reality? The scale folks are into this 100%. My own view is to combine toys and trains. It may not be "scale", but its fun.

I fall into Allan's camp, pretty happy the way things are. I think if you find your niche in our hobby, this will be true for most.

Heck, if I had a holodeck, I'd never leave it.  And it wouldn't be just because of trains either...

I am with you 100%

I could not have said it better!

Re:

the large screen/home theater approach - it should at least be comparable to watching a well made high definition movie.

re: the current scale(accurate/realistic) portion of the hobby - there's no such thing...aren't even close...

Here's another benefit I thought of - when you're finished with the hobby, for whatever reason, there's no laborious having to sell off...;at most, just the operating components.

Think about it, running 6 SD40-2's - through a real mountain subdivision...

Real, Real, Real,[oo][oo][oo],Real, Real, Real,[oo][oo][oo].

Rick

I am very happy with what I have, but quite interested in what great technology you think can deliver all that in a dependable way at an affordable price.  

Ok.

Now i have no idea what you are talking about.

Cant get much more bigger and real than sitting next to the RR tracks watching REAL trains go by...

Sitting behind the throttle, looking out of the cab.

Sounds no different than watching youtube videos to me.

Building displays, repairing motive power, creating scenery and overcoming obstacles, are some of the best parts of the modeling world. Stepping back to the controls, pushing the levers and the pride one experiences in seeing what was in their imagination work in a practical real world environment even if it's only a 5' x 8' display. Somehow that doesn't seem possible without grit under your finger nails and tools sitting within an arms reach.         

Lee,

Your post is exactly what spurred me to start this thread.

I think technology might be the solution for many of the roadblocks that keep appearing, using current practices.

The current ways, especially, when it comes to high end, highly detailed equipment, just aren't up to the task; and the prices are unaffordable for a significant portion of interested hobbyists.

A whole new generation of expensive precision tools/tooling needs to be developed, that is able to excel in sub... environments(micro work), to create anything near a scale realistic/prototypical appearance.

Affordable, technologically accurate imaging..., for the lack of a better word(s), should be able to get us there. The old ways are cumbersome, inefficient, overly expensive, often unreliable and lacking in craftsmanship... to name a few.

The dinosaur is dying.

BTW, you might get some new blood, too.

Rick

Guys,

When you operate a real locomotive, or drive your car to some destination, you don't usually have an aerial view of your part of the world; basically, you have what's in front of you.

I'm talking about an interactive lifelike experience, when you're using the new railroading system. Absolutely realistic. I think technology could deliver that personal experience, at an affordable price.

Rick

RailSim is about as close as you can get right now - it can get pretty intricate but it still lacks the physical.  I've argued for a long time that technology as it pertains to model trains is primitive at best.   What would be cool to see would be some sort of better marriage between the physical and the virtual.   Imagine being able to run your train from anywhere in the world and being able to have a cab-eye view if you want it.   The technology is all here now, and it's not expensive.   I have a $25 RC helicopter that, when flown correctly (and that is key...) ignites the wow factor in kids and adults beyond anything my trains can provide.   When it comes to trains, sometimes I feel like the Flinstones of the hobby world 

Prototype? So far, in 9 trips between Phila. and Boston, two engines have conked-out. On my last trip, a train ahead of us conked-out, causing a 1 hour delay for us.

I've had no problems with my 4 postwar Lionels.

But you wouldn't have anything but an image of something no matter how realistically 3D it is. You couldn't pick it up or actually interact with it, you'd be doing nothing more than vegging out watching TV on steroids. Call me crazy but I'd rather interact with something real any day.

Jerry

Please, don't blame me for this.  This is pure fantasy without any reality - like, "Imagine what we could do if I could turn water into gold?"  I;m all for progress but based on reasonable thinking and ome idea of how one would do.

And you are off base right from the start: "A whole new generation of expensive precision tools/tooling needs to be developed . . . " Seriously!!! You want a whole new generation of inexpensive machines.  

The current generation of production methods, augmented by 3D printers and other real technologies now coming into fruition, will make reasonable improvements on our hobby.  That will be enough for me - and that will be real.

We'll see...

Remember, the earth might not be flat after all.

Who says that the technology won't provide multiple sense stimulation(apparently, we have at least 5), with the effect appearing real...

You could pick your point of view - inside, looking out or outside, observing the action. You could run real equipment, wearing your favorite liveries, or use your imagination and create your own...

You could also create anything you could imagine; and, actually have it come to life.

Sorry, Lee, but whatever the high end scale guys are using, nowadays, just isn't getting the "realism" job done, not even close.

So far, it's been varying versions of "toys".

Rick

Yesterday, on the evening news, it was stated that Vancouver, B.C., is the 2nd most expensive region, in the world, to buy a single family home; first was Hong Kong.

Most will not be able to afford a single family home; they will live in multiple unit buildings.

These people would not be in the position to have a decent, traditional, O gauge set up.

With technology, they have more realistic options...

Rick

          "DRUGS ARE BAD, MMMOKAY. SO DON"T DO DRUGS, MMMOKAY."

I just can't get into mediocre toy trains anymore; that ship sailed, years ago.

I've probably stayed too long... I told my dealer the other day that nothing in my collection is sacred; they're all available for trade.

Forty plus locomotives and nothing really blows me away; take what you want.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't care how good a high tech system was; just thought it was something that others might find interesting?

Rick

What's in your glass?

Yes, Rick B. , do I take the RED pill or the BLUE pill? Living in the Matrix with a cable stuck into the back of my head while cocooned in a slime bath of battery fluid to provide the Matrix power is MUCH more preferable to eating real steak. The inferior reality provided by current video games has just enlarged my thumbs to a gargantuan size in this road side attraction. (GOOD GOD IT'S DADDY!!!!). And all I get is carpal tunnel condition from pushing those two dumb controller buttons! 

I too would prefer the economy of a super computer that never fails to get my rocks off. Especially if someone else programs it so there is no mental or physical effort required on my part. I like living in a dream-like trance. Isn't technology wonderful? Only problem is I forgot my access code. Now all I am experiencing is an error message.

Paul Goodness

It just dawned on me this morning, the tech system seems to be a natural evolution for television; able to provide a realistic experience for the user, whatever the subject matter might be.

It makes sense that it's not limited to - as some of you guys seem to prefer... basements.

People living in town homes and condos, might have a use for such a system, too.

I wouldn't worry about your digits(thumbs)...

Rick

Hmmmm...if someone really wants to experience life, they need to put the effort in and experience it.

...if you want to run an SD40, Dash8, or whatever then become an engineer

...want to experience high speed aerial warfare, become a fighter pilot

...want to explore the oceans, become a deep sea diver

...and so on

No amount of technology can replace real life experience; at least not in our day and age, and I'm not sure that even if it could be invented, that it would be a good thing.

IMHO

r0d

Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it!  

Most people aren't able to try everything they'd like to do... for a number of reason, i.e. some elderly people have a difficult time getting around, and their financial situation would not permit, heading off to experience...

Videos, movies and TV have entertained/preoccupied a significant number of peoples lives, for many years, now. Those technologies are already providing a type of personal viewing experience.

Online activities, such as this forum, provide another version of this personal experience. Pictures and words are creating an impact, on the viewers minds.

Seems like these interactive systems are becoming more and more interactive.

I don't see that changing.

Rick

Actually, I think elderly people could benefit from being engaged in this type of activity; instead of wasting away in some mind deadening care home. I often pass by a care home, for the elderly, and it's sad to see them... staring blankly. I dread ending up like that. Sometimes, I wonder if most of them are drugged? Looks like a horrible way to finish off your life.

Rick

Most people aren't able to try everything they'd like to do... for a number of reason, i.e. some elderly people have a difficult time getting around, and their financial situation would not permit, heading off to experience...

Rick you do realize that virtually walking on the Moon in no way shape or form could even aspire to come close to actually doing it which is a big part of having done it not just the act of having done it. So any type of interactive experience is nothing more than a pathetic, thin copy of actually doing it. I'm more impressed by having actually tried something and succeeding, or failing in the attempt, than in pretending I did it.

I pity and feel sorry for the person who spends his time pretending he's accomplished something, he's no richer for the effort.

Walter Mitty is to be pitied not praised.

Jerry

With a few exceptions, I suspect most of the elderly folks would say they lived a full and enjoyable life, and wouldn't have traded any of it away for a fantasy experience.  Who we are is a direct result of the real-life experiences we go through day to day. 

Now I'm not saying that playing doesn't have some value; it's just not a subsitute for real-life experience.  I really enjoy running toy trains around in circles; I'm not sure that virtual immersion would somehow replace that, or give me the feeling of having actually accomplished something

r0d

Have you ever got caught up in a good movie, and experienced real emotions; maybe, even tears...

There's no need for all or nothing thinking, re: this subject. Of course experiencing life is... There's no reason you can't do both.

Re: the elderly: the past, is the past; it's your situation at the moment that counts; just existing doesn't work for most lucid people.

A doctor once told me, that once a week he attended an old folks facility and provided drugs, for the numerous depressed residents. I said, of course they're depressed, they should be... look at the quality of their lives.

Rick

A fair number of elderly suffer from degenerative, mentally disabling diseases like Alzheimer's and other forms dementia.  Many due to their physical or mental states require medication (drugged as you put it).  If you put people that are that afflicted in the type of simulated environment you're envisioning, they'd still be staring blankly.  That's not being cruel, I've had relatives and friends in such situations, it's just reality, a reality no simulation will be able to rectify, until the day comes when a cure for AZ and other forms of dementia are found.

But Walter Mitty had the ta-pocketa-ta-pocketa machine...

Rusty

Correct, putting them in a virtual reality is no different from their current situation. They still would not be able to even mentally interact with the virtual anymore than they can the real.

The sad fact is the human body was not designed to live as long as many do now and simply starts breaking down physically and mentally, some faster than others and most of us will go down that road eventually.

My plan is to go down swinging if I can, I don't know if I will but I'm going to give it my best shot by staying active both mentally and physically. Plugging into a virtual world just would accelerate the physical atrophy part of getting older.

Jerry

Jerry

Sccchhh ... here's the hobby's dirty little secret: the real money has gone elsewhere. Perhaps because of all those value & end consumer reasons, well documented over the years here, none of which you refer to in your original post or subsequent commentary.  Certainly because of a host of other personal reasons.

Demographic death watch indeed! Only the rogues on the business side are hiding behind those excuses. 

I'm referring to the elderly, that are cognitively intact. They have other issues, that limit their daily life.

I've heard it said, that the elderly are often "invisible". Loneliness seems to be a significant issue, for many... causing, or exacerbating depression.

They rarely see family members, and often, their longtime friends have passed away. Most of us, need and thrive on companionship; and personal interaction. Take that away and we'd probably have a difficult time, too. They too were younger, and probably able... Imagine, having a clear mind and ending up in this kind of situation; and, being at the mercy of others. That's a nightmare!

Stimulating brain activity is supposed to be beneficial. Books, movies, music... all can provide enjoyable, healthy cognitive stimulation.

BTW, playing with toys is hardly...attacking life with gusto; but, it's enjoyable for some.

Rick