UPDATE ----------Track help and 90 degrees crossover.

What kind of track is being used?

Which ZW are you using? Postwar or modern with bricks?

Check the batteries in the remote. test with some fresh alkalines.

Can you draw a track plan and show the power district configuration? Draw a pencil diagram and post a photo. perhaps indicate the pin locations.

Take a photo of the engine stopped at the offending location.

Carl, 

Track is Lionel O-27 tubular track

ZW is Postwar

Batteries were changed last night. 

Sorry I forgot to mention this info.

Well, having just worked with some of this track and the switches 5121 and 5122 with the big bases, the control rail pins for the non-derail should be on the inside rails on the turn-out side. Where the rails make a V

The other power district isolation pins should be on the center rails. You only need the U for common everywhere as they are tied together internally in the ZW.

I also used a 90°, so nothing tricky about that. I would suspect a dead center rail away from the cross and the second roller of the engine on the plastic center of the cross.

I would suggest to solve track power with a meter using continuity and no power and then deal with the powermaster communication issue.

Here is diagram that I best remember where the pins are. I 

Can take pictures and post later today when I go down. 

Yes I seems like when the engines back trucks goes over the crossing that is when it stops. Also we took the crossing off last night and put a reg piece of track on where the crossover would go and it did the same thing.

I sent the 90 cross off to a friend with his layout. it looks like the pin arrangement is the cause.  If there is a pin on the center rail of the cross the rail is dead between there and the switch at the bottom.

I usually have to do surgery on the bottom of across to isolate one line from the other. The four center rails of the cross are connected together. I suppose you could move the pins to the N-S sides of the cross and remove them from the switches to isolate N-S from E-W. But then the engine would momentarily be on the other power district when a roller was on a cross rail and the back roller on the second power district. Not good.

I haven't tried to open a cross like this. Only FasTrack.

I can take some pictures today and post them do you can see the layout  and crossover how it looks pin a linement and so on. Thanks for your help. 

Take a pic of the bottom of the cross - I am thinking it's riveted and would be a pain to open up. Separating the 4 center rails into N-S and E-W will most likely fix the problem. I don't think the pins will work.

Ok I will. I will post so you can see it.

Thanks.

Here are some pictures to help explain.

I cannot tell which need to be separate power districts from the layout photos.

If you want to keep the two on separate transformers or throttle handles at the cross, cut where you see the lines with x and solder a jumper wire across.

Then, a dead spot on the straight will be eliminated and the two line will cross physically, but be separated electrically. If you are isolating the line at the switch turnout from the thru, it should work ok.

I apologize if I am not helping much. I lost focus as the grandchildren are visiting. 

There is no need to apologize. I really understand. It is hard for me too when I'm not down at my dad's to work and post on it at the same time. 

In your post from up top where would I solder the jumper wires at? 

Thank you for all your help since you were the only one to take the time yesterday and try to help. 

Have a great day...

Where should I put the track pins?

How is Dad operating the trains. Traditional, (transformer handle) or command(using remotes)?

What are you trying to accomplish by the changes? 

The pins in the center rail will separate the track in between two of them from the power of the rest of the track.

The pins for a switch, like that of K-line in the photo, are for the outside rails to operate the switch control rails for non- derail action. See instruction sheet for correct placement. I only have Lionel instructions.

The cross jumper wire should be soldered to the tabs where I drew the red line. The cut separates all four center rails in two still and two disconnected. The jumper wire connect the two separated tabs. This separate power of N-S and E-W to enable to separate transformers or handles to control track that crosses.

Moonman posted:

I would suggest to solve track power with a meter using continuity and no power and then deal with the powermaster communication issue.

I woudl suggest leaving power on and testing track using a lamp connected to test leads.  Measuring voltages without a load sometimes gives false readings.  Sometimes happens with resistance readings what appears OK breaks down under voltage conditions.

Just a thought.

rrman posted:

Moonman posted:

I would suggest to solve track power with a meter using continuity and no power and then deal with the powermaster communication issue.

I woudl suggest leaving power on and testing track using a lamp connected to test leads.  Measuring voltages without a load sometimes gives false readings.  Sometimes happens with resistance readings what appears OK breaks down under voltage conditions.

Just a thought.

I find quite the contrary - resistance readings are a good indication that voltage will travel on the circuit - it's amperage, like a pulmor motor or two, when it will not predict a breakdown.

Moonman,   

My dad is running mostly in conventional thur the Lionel powermaster with the option to run in command Tmcc control. 

Basically when my dad bought the Mth 9 1 1 Railing engine we found out that when it went over the crossover it would stop. I then tried one of my Mth engines and the same thing happened. We have had the crossover for aleast 10 years and now having the problem.  

I will try your suggestions and thank you again for your help. I will keep you posted on the progress.  Have a great day.

perplexing, indeed.

I think verifying proper power and power master operation with a light bulb, lighted car or a voltage meter will help you find the issue.

test power master operation viewing voltage up down changes, take track voltage readings approaching the cross area and the cross area and see what you find.

The MTH engines could be more sensitive to a track power condition that regular conventional engines.  But, you need to start somewhere to rule out variables.

Good luck.

Update on the crossover... With the help from Moonman Carl and many others the crossover is fixed and working properly. Thank you Carl for all your help and suggestions.  

Now my dad and I are trying to get the Powermaster to work. 

David S posted:

Update on the crossover... With the help from Moonman Carl and many others the crossover is fixed and working properly. Thank you Carl for all your help and suggestions.  

Now my dad and I are trying to get the Powermaster to work. 

 

So what was the final fix or solution?

RRMAN, the fix was as described up in a earlier post from Moonman. 

Cur the underneath and then solder. I'm really glad it worked. Take a look at the picture above. 

Thanks, David

David,

I just find it curious that it didn't act up until you ran a modern engine. Glad to hear you have it worked out.

If you follow the setup and troubleshooting tips in the instruction manual you should be able to get the powermaster working.

Trying to run pulmor motors with it may require setting the stall voltage. That's starts the voltage up in the 5-7 volt range. The modern engines with electronic e-units don't need that much voltage to get going.

Carl, ( Moonman ) 

I know it is hard to believe but we have never had a problem with the crossover until my Dad bought the MTH 911 engine. He has 1 other MTH engine and it worked fine....

Now to the powermasters...  In the other forum under TMCC i posted the same question and was give a few suggestions. I also have the manual for the powermaster and tried to reset them to the factory setting. I've looked at the troubleshooting section and tried there suggestion also but they are still not working... Both were working fine until the crossover problem started. 

When powered the green light comes on and acting like it is ready. The switches are in the run and con mode. When the red knob is turned the Red light then blinks but it is different on both sides. I will say side A and B.

Side A ----- When track power is turned on by a toggle switch it is on full power even tho the powermaster should be no power until the red knob is turned.  

Side B---- When track power is turned on to the track is getting little power and will not turn off all the way. Also if you put a engine on the track it will only go backwards and you can not sound the horn or bell. 

Again they were both working before the crossover problem.... Hope you can help me with this as we really want to use the Cab 1 for operational . 

Have a great night,

David

There is a powermaster 135 and a powermaster for 180 & 135. here's a video explaining hook-up and operation. Which version do you have? What are you using for transformers?

One simple point is that the TMCC Command base should be off when you want to operate in conventional mode.

I still have concerns about the insulating pin placement for the switches. Do you have the instructions? They are K-line correct? I finally found the manual online to confirm which are the control rails for non-derail. (see attached)

Another concern is track wiring or the power and control connections. Can you sketch a diagram of the power configuration? if you are trying to toggle between a transformer with handles and a powermaster configuration, that could be where the issue lies.

I still don't have a grasp of the track plan.

I read the other post and it still sounds like the wiring is crossed somewhere.

If you replace the 90 degree crossing with a straight track and the engine stops there must be a track issue where the center rail is not powered. The thread is so long and scattered I couldn't find if the locomotive did it in both directions at the same spot. In any case, if one truck is on regular track when it stops, it will most likely be the track, either no common in one of the rails, or no center rail power.

My guess is this has two dummy wheels, two rubber tired wheels, and two metal flanged wheels per truck leaving you just four wheels to make common ground contact and if two are on the plastic crossing you are left with just two. Without seeing an actual verified wiring diagram I'm not sure anyone can help. A blown TMCC Powermaster will pass full voltage no matter where the slide switch is.