Track Power

That is a 400 watt transformer, and should pump out 28 amps at 14 VAC, that is a lot of current, and 7 amps per train.  The length of your track should not contribute to the problem other than voltage drop at the far ends if you don't have a buss feeding the track at mulitple points. Have you metered your train sets one at a time going up the steepest grade to see what each draws?  Are you running multiple powered engines in a consist?  Do you run accessories off that Z4000, that if you transferred to another power source would leave more wattage for trains?  If you have 5 amps worth of lights, turnout indicators, street lamps, building lighting, trackside signals, that is 5 amps you don't have for motive power.

Thank you for your response!

I am running multiple powered engines in a consist so across the trains it typically equates to 8-10 engines running. I also metered them individually and the heaviest train that I run which has a three engine lashup measures consistently 6-8 amps while ascending the grade. The other trains are in the 4-6amp range while ascending. Some accessories are run off that transformer and that is a good point to move them to another source.

In the end, once I complete the upper loop of track, it is likely that there will be an additional 1-2 trains running, each with another 2-3 engines, so even with moving accessories to another source might I still run into a problem trying to run 5-6 trains (12-15 engines) all on one Z4000?

I've read briefly about power blocks and separating a track plan to break up distribution across multiple power sources/transformers, but still am kind of fuzzy on how that works and not sure if that what I would need? Any thoughts on this would also be appreciated.

If your diesels don't have speed control (i.e., Legacy, PS2, PS3), then rewire their dual motors in series instead of parallel.  This will cut their current draw in HALF!  They will be slightly more prone to wheelspin in series mode, but with two or three powered locos per train that shouldn't be a problem.

You could also convert any illuminated passenger cars to LED lighting (and make sure the wheels and pickup rollers turn as freely as possible to reduce drag and amp draw.)

If you are 100% command control, you could divide your layout into blocks and use multiple transformers, each connected to just one or two blocks.  The key to this approach is that all of the transformers should be set to the same voltage, i.e., 17 or 18 volts.  That's why it works best with a 100% command controlled setup.

I would love to see some photos of what you built.  Good luck, and please share your solution when you find one.

I do use a 100% command controlled set-up, which is why from what I read the powerblocks seemed like the best idea. If I was conventional, wiring in series is a neat idea that I would not have thought that would save that much current draw.

It seems I'll have to dive down the power block route. Each block does require complete electrical isolation from one another if I understand it correctly? With the way my track plan works, I was thinking of separating it into 4 blocks and using a lionel 180-watt powerhouse to each powerblock? I tried to devise it so that each block would in theory have at most 2 trains on it at a time so the traffic on each block would be held to a minimum.

I have also attached two pictures of the layout, one showing the helix that is located at one end and then another showing the more 'finished' end of the layout which is well under way in terms of scenery.

Nice set up. More power!! Great job. Greg

If you are full command control power house transformers are the way to go cost wise. Just make sure they are all in phase. Don’t trust the polarized plugs

@JB8051 posted:

Thank you for your response!

I am running multiple powered engines in a consist so across the trains it typically equates to 8-10 engines running. I also metered them individually and the heaviest train that I run which has a three engine lashup measures consistently 6-8 amps while ascending the grade. The other trains are in the 4-6amp range while ascending. Some accessories are run off that transformer and that is a good point to move them to another source.

I would take a look at track voltage on your 3 engine lashup climbing the grade, at the track on the grade, and then check the voltage at the Z4000 terminals feeding that track.  Any significant difference say more than 2 volts, you might look into improving conductivity with larger Z4000 to track wiring, or adding a buss that ties the  block in a couple places to the power feeding it.  But as you seem to be coming to a conclusion to, as Train Bob and Ted S have mentioned, it looks like a command control system is in your future with your desire to run that many locos at once, or an additional transformer, with more wiring and selection options.  Did you ever put your lashups on the track, with no train and not hooked together to see if they all ran about the same and you don't have a slow one dragging them down or fast one being held back?  That can affect current demand.

@CALNNC posted:

That is a 400 watt transformer, and should pump out 28 amps....

The Z4000 is limited to 10 amps per handle, knowing this may reveal how to revamp your power districts by adding in another Z4000.

Thank you everyone for your input so far!

I do have another Z4000... so it is possible then to use the power outputs from each handle to go to 4 separate power blocks? If this is a viable option and I did this instead since I already have two Z4000's, how would I properly phase the transformers together so the trains run smoothly transitioning from one power block to another? Likewise, because I use command control (DCS) that would presumably change the wiring to that unit as well?

@JB8051 posted:

I do have another Z4000... so it is possible then to use the power outputs from each handle to go to 4 separate power blocks? If this is a viable option and I did this instead since I already have two Z4000's, how would I properly phase the transformers together so the trains run smoothly transitioning from one power block to another?

I don't own a Z4000 and from the manuals I have seen, I don't think phasing is an issue as it looks like it converts line AC to a DC voltage, and then inverts it back to AC track voltage.  Someone who owns one and has worked on it will know this.  If it was a pair of  basic Lionel transformers, you would hook the two U common jack together, and increase the throttle on both to the same point with no track hooked up, and see if you read voltage from one A terminal to the other A terminal.  If you did, rotate the line cord of one transformer and then it should read zero or very close.  In most regular Lionel transformers, the U terminal is actually hooked to the rheostats wiper arm, where you would think the variable track volts at A would come from there.  You can try this with the Z4000's to see if it makes a difference, hook the black commons together and with track volts up, read from one red track output to the other transformers same  red output , note that the throttle should be in the same position, and see if you see a bit of voltage, A small amount might be because the throttles are not in the same place, but if allot, turn one plug around.  If it is 3 prong, good luck, but you can force the issue with a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter and turn that around.  You may have to trim the neutral blade to fit the narrow hot slot.   Once you figure it out, mark the plugs with white paint indicating which plug blade should go into the hot side of your outlet, which is the smaller slot, and hope who ever wired your house did it right.  You can compound the problem if you plug one transformer in one outlet, and the other in a different outlet and they don't share a circuit breaker hooked to the same side of the panels buss.  Breakers alternate in a panel, usually the breaker below one is on the other half of the 220 coming in and you could have 220 between the hot terminals of two outlets in the same room.