Traction Tire Conundrum!......Any tricks?

Your description is clear but it would help to see a picture. It seems to me that O gauge trains are designed for quick, cheap and easy assembly, and mostly without regard for servicing or disassembly.

MELGAR

About a year ago, someone posted pictures of homemade tools they made with paper clips. The tools allowed one to replace the tire without removing the side frames.

Here's the thread

https://ogrforum.com/...ick-with-right-tools

RoyBoy posted:

About a year ago, someone posted pictures of homemade tools they made with paper clips. The tools allowed one to replace the tire without removing the side frames.

Here's the thread

https://ogrforum.com/...ick-with-right-tools

Thanks!  I had found the same info while waiting for responses to this thread.  Not sure the gap (wheel face to sideframe) I have on my geep will let me do this, but I'm game to try.  Hey, a new tool from the 'school' (of hard knocks!)....why not?!

I'll report back later.

I may yet try the other technique....grind the stakes, drill/tap the sideframe, change the tires, reassemble with a couple appropriate machine screws.  I found a derelict dummy truck from a similar engine...the truck assembled the same way with the same staked sideframes.  The more I investigate, ponder, ....sip some vino..., the more I'm tempted to give it a go.  After all, if a couple of screws removed gets me to a no-brainer tire replacement, I'm all in.

KD

You may need a bottle of vino.  The truck assembly on that thing is the 8030-100/8665-100.  The only 2 screws in the whole assembly are on the motor brush plate; everything else is staked or riveted together.  You really don’t want to take it apart because the chances of getting it back together, in alignment, are slim.

You are going to need a few tiny tools (bent paperclips should work) to maneuver the tires around.  Start by getting the tire on the upper part of the wheel.  Try to wedge something flat, like an ice cream stick, between the wheel and the frame to keep that upper part of the tire from coming off.  Now, gently pull both sides of the tire toward you to slip it over the rest of the wheel.  Do both wheels then try to turn the wheels by pushing the armature around to make sure the tires are seated.

It is a lot easier to write how to do it than to actually do it

Good luck, let us know how you make out.

I have found the small screwdrivers intended for tightening eyeglass screws to be useful when changing tires on these staked truck frame engines.  They are more rigid than paper clips and tiny enough to work through openings in the side frame.

I’ve also used a large flathead screwdriver to VERY carefully bend the side frame away from the wheels just enough to allow more maneuvering room to install the new tires.  Once done; I then use a pair of long handled pliers, opened as far as they’ll go, to gently squeeze the side frames back into place.  

Curt

KD,

  I remember seeing this a few years ago and was able to find it now if it helps. 

https://ogrforum.com/...-long-term-experince 

  I never had to change a traction tire, most of my locos are prewar switchers, but it sounded interesting.

Tom 

Dan, RoyBoy, MELGAR!!!  It worked!!  The 'Paper Clip' technique really worked!  It took about 4 tries of different sizes of paper clips, bend lengths to retain the tire as it was being maneuvered down the slot, gap size between the clip tangs (Not too wide, not too loose), etc..  But, in the end it worked....very well.

In fact it went so well, so quickly.......that I forgot the vino!   But now.....a glass to celebrate success!!

I yet plan to diddle with the derelict truck replacing the stakes for the one sideframe with a couple screws.  It's still worth a try.  I've doped out the best screw size and head shape (for clearance to the chassis frame).  I'll post results hopefully by the end of the week on how that goes.

Thanks to all for the advice and encouragement!

KD

Today we remember....

I have used dental tools for years. 

Dkdkrd I’m glad you found the tools and they worked for you. I’m also glad to see that others here remember the post about them. I have found them to work great for me and I no longer dread having to replace tires.

I sometimes use a long, pointed set of tweezers to get the tire onto the top of the wheel, especially on steam locomotives.

MELGAR

KD, glad that worked out for you.  As you see from other posts, there are some good tools out there to help with jobs like this; small screw drivers, dental picks, curved tweezers, etc.  You might want to visit Harbor Freight and pickup a few little tools for the future.  Not knowing what you had I went for a universal tool that most everyone has - a paper clip.

dkdkrd posted:

I yet plan to diddle with the derelict truck replacing the stakes for the one sideframe with a couple screws.  It's still worth a try.  I've doped out the best screw size and head shape (for clearance to the chassis frame).  I'll post results hopefully by the end of the week on how that goes.

Many trucks with screws on top use flat head screws that are countersunk into the truck.

As I mentioned in my 5/28 post above, I was able to get the traction tires onto the two wheels of this engine using the 'paper clip' technique GHD came up with.

But, I also wanted to try an alternate approach, which I mentioned.....grinding off the two sideframe stakes to the motor plate, and then using a couple machine screws to re-fasten.  I should think this would make it a lot easier for subsequent changes of tires...somewhat of a certainty from age and operation for any toy destined to be enjoyed by future generations, eh what?!

Rather than use a derelict similar engine truck, I decided to use the same truck I had just replaced the tires on.  The hardest part of the job was finding a local source for the screws I deemed appropriate.  With those in hand, the following conversion took all of 30 minutes to do.  And, it works great!!

Here's the photos/description of what was done....

The two stakes we need to relieve are the square ones above the simulated brake cylinders.  In the center of the picture is a black plastic riser/spacer that is staked/attached to the truck sideframe.  Perhaps Lionel's intent was that this part and it's smaller round stake were to have also been attached to the motor plate, but that wasn't the case for this sample, anyway.

After some careful filing of the two square stake heads, and some 'encouragement' with a couple subsequent light taps of a hammer on a blunt nail at each stake, the sideframe came free.  I then continued to file the two square stakes and the small round stake holding the plastic riser/spacer, but just enough to get them smooth and flat...yet low enough to have a remaining height less than the thickness of the sheet metal motor plate.  This is important, because we will want the screw to seat firmly to the motor plate, not the top of the stake pads...the latter resulting in a loose, wobbly sideframe.  It's not hard to judge....basically once any witness of Lionel's stake tool has been filed away, you've probably filed the pads low enough.  A couple more file strokes for good measure and you're done.  

BTW, the sideframe stake pads and the mating square holes in the motor plate are a very close fit. (Good job, Lionel!)  Therefore, I suggest lightly filing the burrs off from the edges of both...stake pads and motor plate holes...to make it easier to re-position the sideframe for screw attachment.

Here's the sideframe with the holes drilled/tapped in the center of each stake pad. 

Below the frame are the two screws I selected.  They're 4-40 machine screws with a Phillips pan head.  The thread selection was on the basis of the size of the pad, and the fact that there was not much room for more than 1/8" screw length to hold the plate and sideframe together before the thread might contact the wheel tread (traction tire!!).  So, the more threads available for holding 'power' considering the available length restriction, in balance with a thread diameter that would stay within the size of the stake pad was my choice.  The selection of a pan head meant I didn't need to countersink the pad or plate, and the head diameter would fully cover the joint.  As it also turned out, the pan head had a height that was less than that of the plastic riser/spacer...meaning it wouldn't contact the sheet metal chassis frame of the locomotive.

And, here's the result.  Easily done, now simply enabling removal of the sideframe for subsequent replacement of the traction tires!!!  BTW, be sure to include that plastic riser/spacer between the sideframe and motor plate when reattaching everything....very important!

So, when I started this inquiry, I had NO solutions but a lot of frustrations.  A few days later with a lot of help from OGR friends (and some quiet contemplation and liquid therapy for my own part) I now have not one, but TWO solutions for my 'conundrum'!

And that's worth toasting!!

Thanks, again!!

KD

KD, You actually have a third possible solution which seems to have worked for some people (see my prior post above)...using silicone.

Tom