Traditional Size...What Scale?

Pick a scale, any scale...

"Traditional sized" locomotives and cars are pretty much rubber scale.  "Scale" can vary from piece to piece and dimension to dimension(height, width and length) through the miracle of selective compression.  There seldom is a set in stone "scale."

Lionel was and is a master at selective compression.  MTH still needs some practice.

Rusty

As Rusty says, the "scale" of traditional engines and rolling stock is all over the map. Some traditional items are actually pretty close to 1/48 scale dimensions. Lionel's postwar F units and Geeps weren't scale, but they weren't that far off either. Prototype 2- and 3-dome tankers were pretty small, so if you compare Lionel's with a real one, they may not be quite to scale but they look reasonable running with scale cars. Likewise the vat cars. K-Line's "traditional" vat cars are very close to scale. On the other hand, traditional size boxcars, reefers, flatcars, and gondolas are typically quite a bit smaller than 1/48 and the proportions are not prototypical. 

Some of the "traditional" sized models are scale for prewar prototypes when railcars were shorter in length and height.  The locomotives have been selectively compressed and are not scale at all.  They are just meant to "look right" on smaller layouts with tighter curves.  K-line did make their BigBoy and Allegheny models "scale" but not 1/48. One was 1/64 (aka S) and the other was 1/56?  Both ran on O gauge track and looked pretty good pulling traditional sized rolling stock.

I agree with Rusty... a lot of Postwar pieces were close to scale height and width, but they were compressed in a charming and artistic way from front to back (like looking at the prototype thru a telephoto lens.)  They didn't look so out-of-place on tight tinplate curves.

The Marx Pacific #333 was good looking in its own way, but except for the wheel gauge, it was closer to S scale.

A lot of RailKing locos have been produced, kudos to MTH for not ignoring those of us with sharp curves.  However it's too bad that many of the designs simply aren't "artful" or appealing to me.

To answer the original question--I would say somewhere around 1/54th would be a good average number to use.  Good topic!   -Ted

That is pretty much the correct answer.  Measure each piece with a scale ruler to determine what scale that particular item might be…and even then some dimensions won't work out properly.

Selective compression is commonly used to reduce the size of a model in one or more dimensions i.e. height, length, and width. This is not the same thing as building to a smaller scale. If the model is built to a different scale then all dimensions and details would be proportionately reduced to that scale. As previously stated, Lionel changed some dimensions to produce model trains that captured the essence of the prototype.  

Outside of using tank cars, some diesels,  and some refers, I run traditional with traditional, scale with scale.  

with the different size of real railroad cars does it really make that much of a difference?

size sample

imo.

It does to a certain extent.  A car that's almost perfect 1/64th scale looks sorta ridiculous on O gauge trucks:

Rusty

Before this topic gets blown all out of proportion I asked this question simply as an information gathering one. I am not trying to say that one size is better than the other. I was just being curious. There are so many neat things about this hobby that sometimes a how, what, when, where or why comes to me and I like to find out. From minutiae to earth-shattering, if I don't know, I'll ask. So fellow Forumites, if a post from me seems trivial, please bear with me, I just want to know. 

Well it's sure not trivial to me. I've been buying figures (people) to populate my layout and have seen quite a bit of variation. For example, the MTH passenger set figures are much smaller scale than the train engineers. I'm ok with that because the passengers would be too big for the inside of the O27 passenger cars. But it would be nice to have a guide. Many times when buying on-line that info is not provided. With engines and rolling stock it's less obvious and can be even more confusing.

Marx/AmeriTrains are 1/64, or close to it.

MilwRdPaul - Martin H is right - some people are not helpful, and don't try to be.

It "matters" to you, or you wouldn't have asked the question.

So, though there are some good answers above, you are correct about Traditional,

Rail King and the smaller K-line being around 1/50-something. The scale but sub-O

K-Line Allegheny was advertised as "1:58" as I recall (I have one; nice loco). Even the 

compressed RK/Trad pieces will fit in this size zone.

But, so far as I can remember, K-Line was the only one of the "majors" who offered

actual sub-O-Scale -Scale- Models (1:58, or 1:64 in the ex-Marx 4-6-2). The others, and much of K-Line's lower-end product, were compressed or approximated in some way. 

Very nicely, though, in many cases.

Another sweet K-Line locomotive was the scale 1:58 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 (same boiler); they run beautifully, and look pretty accurate.

The tiny "bantam" pieces are anybody's guess - S-scale-ish, really (as was Lionel's

PW Pennsy 6-8-6 Turbine, I have always felt; Lionel should produce an AF

version of it...). 

I made the mistake of not knowing the difference between traditional and standard O when I got into model trains. I eventually figured it out but it would of been nice to have gone into one or the other. I have two train scales as far as I'm concerned because some rail cars just don't go together. I'm still happy with the choices I've made. An example picture is below.

And in some cases such as "semi-scale boxcars, they are the correct length

e.g. 10 inches for a 40 foot boxcar, but are not high enough.  I finally gave up

and got rid of all semi-scale 3 rail, and am now buying only 1:48 scale

freight cars.

Lew Schneider

Get a 1:64th scale loco and freight car and a 1:48th Scale loco and freight car.

Put the Lionel Traditional O Gauge loco and freight car beside the two true to scale models. Measure the dimensions with a multiple scale ruler. See what dimensions match what scale.

Andrew

The width is the most varied on Lionel Traditional O gauge cars. The Height and Length is exactly or close to 1:64th scale. The width of traditional Lionel O gauge can be anything, depending on the production era.

Andrew

Basically, it all comes down to this:  A model is either made to a specific scale (!:48 in most instances for O gauge), or it isn't scale.  One can call it semi-scale, traditional size, or any other term, but it's either made to scale or it isn't scale.  The trains we call traditional size, O27, or semi-scale, for example really have no specific scale, even though they all operate on O gauge track (which itself is not to scale in most cases).

Well said, Allan.

No, he's not saying that. Scale is scale. A shortened or compressed dimension does not equate to being a different scale for that dimension. Apples and oranges. Trying to think of it that way is a recipe for confusion.

However, the point that you make is correct: "that it is non-proportioned and therefore cannot be characterized as any one scale."