Skip to main content

21 replies

Train handling question

Nick ChillianisNick ChillianisOGR Forum Member

There is a guy on YouTube claiming to be a "locomotive machinist" for a major US railroad. He's a complete jack-waggon, who goes around insulting and belittling commenters on some railfan videos.

 

Some of us were having a discussion about how modern locomotives are significantly quieter than diesels built before the noise regulations which mandated reduced noise from locomotives built after December 31, 1979. He called us a bunch of know-it-all railfans and claims that today's diesels are much louder than those in the past. He said that even the regulations governing the volume of horns have mandated louder horns. When I cited chapter and verse the Federal regulation which reduced maximum volume of train horns to 110 decibels at 100 feet ahead of the locomotive while leaving the minimum unchanged at 96 decibels, he responded with more vitriol and insults.

 

One of the more fantastic sounding claims he has made is:

 

".....because occasionally trains are operated with a minimum reduction applied to the brakes when going uphill so that if there is a break-in-two the brakes are already set up and can achieve an emergency application more quickly."

 
I have never heard of such a procedure.
 
Is this credible or is it complete nonsense?
 
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Nick Chillianis
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

G GreggOGR Forum Member

Just My take from a old retired Conductor.... He may be correct on the Horn thing.  Some engines with a desk top design had a button that you pressed to operate the horn. It came on full blast. No dipping or letting off the volume. Full blast only.

 

As for the braking..(old school)  We used to apply a min brake reduction to stretch out the train  before going over an" up & over" type of track   configuration.

HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Nick Chillianis:

There is a guy on YouTube claiming to be a "locomotive machinist" for a major US railroad. He's a complete jack-waggon, who goes around insulting and belittling commenters on some railfan videos.

 

So how does a "locomotive machinist" know so much about train handling?

 

Some of us were having a discussion about how modern locomotives are significantly quieter than diesels built before the noise regulations which mandated reduced noise from locomotives built after December 31, 1979. He called us a bunch of know-it-all railfans and claims that today's diesels are much louder than those in the past. He said that even the regulations governing the volume of horns have mandated louder horns. When I cited chapter and verse the Federal regulation which reduced maximum volume of train horns to 110 decibels at 100 feet ahead of the locomotive while leaving the minimum unchanged at 96 decibels, he responded with more vitriol and insults.

 

One of the more fantastic sounding claims he has made is:

 

".....because occasionally trains are operated with a minimum reduction applied to the brakes when going uphill so that if there is a break-in-two the brakes are already set up and can achieve an emergency application more quickly."

 
I have never heard of such a procedure.
 
Is this credible or is it complete nonsense?
 
Thanks in advance.

 

Nick ChillianisNick ChillianisOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by Nick Chillianis:

There is a guy on YouTube claiming to be a "locomotive machinist" for a major US railroad. He's a complete jack-waggon, who goes around insulting and belittling commenters on some railfan videos.

 

So how does a "locomotive machinist" know so much about train handling?

 

Some of us were having a discussion about how modern locomotives are significantly quieter than diesels built before the noise regulations which mandated reduced noise from locomotives built after December 31, 1979. He called us a bunch of know-it-all railfans and claims that today's diesels are much louder than those in the past. He said that even the regulations governing the volume of horns have mandated louder horns. When I cited chapter and verse the Federal regulation which reduced maximum volume of train horns to 110 decibels at 100 feet ahead of the locomotive while leaving the minimum unchanged at 96 decibels, he responded with more vitriol and insults.

 

One of the more fantastic sounding claims he has made is:

 

".....because occasionally trains are operated with a minimum reduction applied to the brakes when going uphill so that if there is a break-in-two the brakes are already set up and can achieve an emergency application more quickly."

 
I have never heard of such a procedure.
 
Is this credible or is it complete nonsense?
 
Thanks in advance.

 

That's easy, Jack. He's the world's foremost authority on everything "railroad" and a legend in his own mind.

 

He's in Wyoming and has UP pics all over his site. I wonder if he's into German marching tunes. 

Rich MelvinRich MelvinOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by Gregg:
...As for the braking..(old school)  We used to apply a min brake reduction to stretch out the train  before going over an" up & over" type of track   configuration.

Gregg is absolutely correct. On a "roller coaster" profile, a light application of the air helps to keep everything stretched. One part of the train my be rolling downhill while another part is going up. In that scenario, you may have the air on going UP a hill.

 

However, the reason for carrying light air application is not so the brakes will go in emergency sooner if the train comes apart. The reason is to keep the slack lightly stretched so it doesn't run in and out as you go up and down hills. That can get you a knuckle.

 

How can I find this guy on YouTube? Ought to be good for a few laughs.

Last edited by Rich Melvin
Nick ChillianisNick ChillianisOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by OGR Webmaster:
Originally Posted by Gregg:
...As for the braking..(old school)  We used to apply a min brake reduction to stretch out the train  before going over an" up & over" type of track   configuration.

Gregg is absolutely correct. On a "roller coaster" profile, a light application of the air helps to keep everything stretched. One part of the train my be rolling downhill while another part is going up. In that scenario, you may have the air on going UP a hill.

 

However, the reason for carrying light air application is not so the brakes will go in emergency sooner. The reason is to keep the slack lightly stretched so it doesn't run in and out as you go up and down hills. That can get you a knuckle.

That I fully well understand, Rich. However, the video in question was of a train pulling up Beaumont Hill in California, which is definitely not of a roller coaster profile.

Nick ChillianisNick ChillianisOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by OGR Webmaster:
Originally Posted by Gregg:
...As for the braking..(old school)  We used to apply a min brake reduction to stretch out the train  before going over an" up & over" type of track   configuration.

Gregg is absolutely correct. On a "roller coaster" profile, a light application of the air helps to keep everything stretched. One part of the train my be rolling downhill while another part is going up. In that scenario, you may have the air on going UP a hill.

 

However, the reason for carrying light air application is not so the brakes will go in emergency sooner if the train comes apart. The reason is to keep the slack lightly stretched so it doesn't run in and out as you go up and down hills. That can get you a knuckle.

 

How can I find this guy on YouTube? Ought to be good for a few laughs.

He goes by DEEREMEYER1 and the contretemps are on this video.

GoshawkGoshawkOGR Forum Member

Ah the joys of internet anonymity. I just read the whole thing. I think the only thing you can do is just stop and let him go. Getting wrapped up in the drabble reminds me of a quote my Grandfather used to say, "Never get in a battle of wits with the witless, they will pull you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."

Nick ChillianisNick ChillianisOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Goshawk:

Ah the joys of internet anonymity. I just read the whole thing. I think the only thing you can do is just stop and let him go. Getting wrapped up in the drabble reminds me of a quote my Grandfather used to say, "Never get in a battle of wits with the witless, they will pull you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."

Yeah, the guy is a joke. He was trying to claim that plain vanilla flange squealing and groaning was the sound of brakes applied on the train.

 

Now he's gone on to disparage train crews in general, claiming they know very little about the handling of trains.

 

Must be a burden, being as all-knowing and all-seeing as he is and having to deal with us mere mortals.

 

 

 

 

 

R RailRideOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER
Originally Posted by Goshawk:

Ah the joys of internet anonymity. I just read the whole thing. I think the only thing you can do is just stop and let him go. Getting wrapped up in the drabble reminds me of a quote my Grandfather used to say, "Never get in a battle of wits with the witless, they will pull you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."

Is that along the lines of "teaching a pig to dance" or "playing chess with a pigeon"?

 

---PCJ

G GP40OGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by OGR Webmaster:
Originally Posted by Gregg:
...As for the braking..(old school)  We used to apply a min brake reduction to stretch out the train  before going over an" up & over" type of track   configuration.

Gregg is absolutely correct. On a "roller coaster" profile, a light application of the air helps to keep everything stretched. One part of the train my be rolling downhill while another part is going up. In that scenario, you may have the air on going UP a hill.

 

However, the reason for carrying light air application is not so the brakes will go in emergency sooner if the train comes apart. The reason is to keep the slack lightly stretched so it doesn't run in and out as you go up and down hills. That can get you a knuckle.

 

How can I find this guy on YouTube? Ought to be good for a few laughs.

 

 

This is absolutely correct, especially when operating over undulating grades, however,  when I started handling trains in the late 1970's much consideration was given to the ride the conductor and rear flagman were getting 80 - 100 cars back in in the caboose. Getting (breaking) a knuckle or drawbar was secondary to spilling the conductor's coffee or lunch. Worse yet was causing an injury due to poor train handling and excessive slack action. These things could earn you embarassing nicknames that stuck to you for your entire career. The true "art" of train handling disappeared with the caboose. 

JP jim pastoriusOGR Forum Member

I live about 3/4 mile from the Bessemer & Lake Erie main line south of Butler, Pa. and the long southbound drag going to the highest point where the old US Steel sintering plant was is nearby. When the B&LE were running their older diesels, the SDs and a few GPs, I could hear them coming miles away, in spite of the hills ,then on that grade they would be hammering. On a damp, still evening it sounded like they were coming down the road !!  I would go outside just to listen. Asked a young lady once who lived near the track  about the trains and she said they never noticed them.  Now I hear the wheels clattering more than the engines. I miss those sweet sounds.

mackb4mackb4OGR Forum Member

 Wow what a discussion .

 

 I've ran trains on rip-rap territory from Portsmouth,Ohio to Bellvue,Ohio and back and the only time I ever touched the air was stretching a train going down grade,never up grade . You would get caught by today's detectors doing that anyway.

 

 I've also run trains From Portsmouth,Oh to Bluefield,WV and the only time I ever applied air was going down the mountain from Bluefield then again coming out of the west end of Elkhorn tunnel.

 

 And I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion,but I think the older units ; SD's and even GP's were/are much louder than today's diesels.

 The horns today are louder also.You don't have the ability to play the horn like you did on the older units,their either on loud or off it seems.

Nick ChillianisNick ChillianisOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Wyhog:

Don't try dragging air on undulating territory today. Your RFE will immediately get a nastygram from the tattletale loco computers and there will be a message waiting for you when you tie up to come to his office.

 

And yes SD40s were far louder than todays units. 4 or 5 of them leaving town at full throttle would rattle the walls and bounce the bed in the crew complex you were trying to sleep in. Today's units barely wake you up. The older 567 engines were pretty noisy too.

I once got a train order to take siding at Lariat Wyoming to meet 10 trains! Figuring if they were on each others 10 minute blocks (dark territory),  and they wouldn't be, that would mean I was stuck there for at least 90 minutes. So I took a hike up into the hills west of the siding and told the brakeman to "whistle me in" if the DS radio'd to change any of the meets. Up on the ridge I could hear the trains whistling for crossings and could hear each of them climbing a grade that was 20 miles away (by rail, maybe 15 by air) then shut off for the down grade then hear the engines again coming up the last grade 9 miles away. In the same situation with the post 1994 units you can still hear the whistle but not the engines.

Also I live 8 miles from the track. I used to be able to hear the trains roaring going up the 1.66% grade east of town, But I don't hear the newer units except for their horns.

Back in the early 80's I stood at Horseshoe Curve and could hear the SD40-2/SD45-2 powered trains throttling up in Altoona.

 

Later on, I made sound recordings and the SD45-2 helpers were about 6 to 8 db louder than the SD60s and SD80s that were on the head end of those trains.

 

10db is perceived to be twice as loud by most people.

 

Also, in those years you could stand on Tehachapi or Cajon and hear a train climbing towards your position for a 1/2 hour or more. Not any more.

Add Reply

Views: 634
Post

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×

Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership

OGR Forum Supporting Membership

Help support this forum with an OGR Forum Supporting Membership.
You will be able to watch the videos in the INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO FORUM!
A one-year OGR Forum Supporting Membership is only $12 per year, so sign up now!


    OR     


Access the ALL the OGR VIDEO FORUMS AND  over 300 back issues of OGR
with a DIGITAL SUBSCRIPTION!



$12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable)
×