That's a new one: STORY
Rusty
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Watch the video. See train hit the single engine plane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JMlX3m0u0o
Gary 🚂
Wow!!! Now that is something. Not only does he crash, but the aircraft itself stops on a railroad crossing of all places with a train coming and he survived both incidents. Props to everyone who risked their lives to get him out of that aircraft while the train was coming!
That's something you don't see everyday. Glad everyone escaped with their life!
Notice, metal was flying everywhere upon impact. Never stand close to where an impact is about to happen. Stuff goes everywhere and a piece of metal to the head will ruin your day. Take cover behind something substantial (tree / building / ) to protect yourself if you can't get away from the scene.
If I was that guy - I'd buy a lottery ticket.
Paul
@Railrunnin posted:Notice, metal was flying everywhere upon impact. Never stand close to where an impact is about to happen. Stuff goes everywhere and a piece of metal to the head will ruin your day. Take cover behind something substantial (tree / building / ) to protect yourself if you can't get away from the scene.
If I was that guy - I'd buy a lottery ticket.
Paul
Hi Paul: What you are saying about the impact and stuff going everywhere is true. Check out a different camera angle at frame 0:18 in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg5Zi2AqTXE
Gary 🚂
The train will always win!!! Truck, car or airplane the train wins!!!
Good job LAPD/LASD
"If I was that guy - I'd buy a lottery ticket."
He just cashed in his winning ticket
@Railrunnin posted:Notice, metal was flying everywhere upon impact. Never stand close to where an impact is about to happen. Stuff goes everywhere and a piece of metal to the head will ruin your day. Take cover behind something substantial (tree / building / ) to protect yourself if you can't get away from the scene.
If I was that guy - I'd buy a lottery ticket.
Paul
I saw another video shot from just past the crossing. Needless to say the guy shooting it almost became a casualty from flying debris.
There are a multitude of web references that can be studied that have to do with the responsibilities of PSAP's and RR's to communicate whenever there is an incident involving a RR crossing.
How many times have we seen a RR vs highway collision that might have been avoided, had only someone called the RR and asked for any trains in the vicinity to slow down or stop. Of course, in a perfect world, those steps towards avoidance would need to be taken immediately upon learning of the collision potential, but even a few seconds or a minute might mean the difference between a near miss and a near hit.
In this example, we are not dealing with a small-town police department with limited training and facilities. A large department, upon receiving a call about a vehicle on the tracks, could certainly rely on established policies and procedures to contact the railroad dispatching center to begin the slowing down or stopping of any train potentially involved.
Here's some food for thought, as an example:
Let the flames begin...
That guy either has a friend upstairs someplace or someone angry at them and is inept....survives a plane crash and a railroad crossing incident.
As far as being reported to have someone tell the train to stop, it doesn't sound like there was a lot of time to report it, it sounds like the plane crashed, cops responded and pulled the person out and the train almost immediately flattened it. Even assuming the cops had direct access to the train's dispatcher, and the dispatcher radio'ed the engineer to stop, he might have applied the brakes after it had already hit the plane.
The responders did the right thing in this case based on the description, they saw the plane was in danger and pulled the guy out, they made the right assumption, that the train could come at any minute and that would be that. A friend of mine and I many years ago (think late teen ie all impulse and no brains) pulled a person out of a car that had crashed and was on fire, we were able to get him out of it. Of course we got yelled at, because we didn't know if the gas tank had gone up yet, but the thing is had we not pulled him out and the tank blew, he would have likely died (and in a bit of comic relief in a serious situation, it was a Ford Pinto, believe it or not, something that hit us later on). Yes, had the tank blown they might have had 3 seriously injured or dead people, but to us the risk was worth it....(would I do it now? Only if they didn't have a NE Patriots bumper sticker or a white castle bumper sticker.....*evil grin*).
God bless the first responders who did what they are trained to do, despite risk to themselves. The first video is clearly from a body cam our police are forced to wear because of the accusations (some rightly so) made against them.
On the news tonight, they said the police station was just a few doors down from where the plane crashed. They were able to run out the front door to the plane and begin rescue efforts before there was any chance to call the RR. One of the responding officers said the guy should buy a lottery ticket.
Tom
I used to fly the same type of aircraft (Cessna) from that same airfield in the early 1980s. Whiteman Air Park, right next to the Southern Pacific line going through Pacoima. Back then, it was freight-only; CalTrans commuter service came later. Wonder if I knew the plane or the pilot...
Mitch
@trainroomgary posted:Hi Paul: What you are saying about the impact and stuff going everywhere is true. Check out a different camera angle at frame 0:18 in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg5Zi2AqTXE
Gary 🚂
Wow, that camera-man came close to getting his head struck by that piece of wing.
Assuming they are okay , but any word on the rail crew and passengers?
@jhz563 posted:Assuming they are okay , but any word on the rail crew and passengers?
Yes. I hope the crew and passengers were not injured in any way.
I would like to hear a recording of the cab conversation as they approached the crossing...the un-bleeped version.
Tom
This event attracted international attention - - - saw it on BBC (British Broadcasting news).
@jhz563 posted:Assuming they are okay , but any word on the rail crew and passengers?
Having had a couple of grade crossing accidents in my engineer career, I can tell you that the people on the train - crew and passengers - never felt a thing.
The train vs plane weight relationship is the equivalent of you running over a soft drink can with your car.
@Arthur P. Bloom posted:How many times have we seen a RR vs highway collision that might have been avoided, had only someone called the RR and asked for any trains in the vicinity to slow down or stop. Of course, in a perfect world, those steps towards avoidance would need to be taken immediately upon learning of the collision potential, but even a few seconds or a minute might mean the difference between a near miss and a near hit.
In this example, we are not dealing with a small-town police department with limited training and facilities. A large department, upon receiving a call about a vehicle on the tracks, could certainly rely on established policies and procedures to contact the railroad dispatching center to begin the slowing down or stopping of any train potentially involved.
Let the flames begin...
Arthur,
Just to be clear: Are you assuming that the officers involved in this incident reacted too slowly, and worse yet didn't do the right thing? (You know what happens when you assume ...).
Personally, for any reasonably large catastrophe one has to wait at least six months to get the real story, ideally from trusted media, reporting D.O.T. findings. Although this isn't one of those situations, the circumstances of the dual crashes are quite unusual, so maybe the investigation-and-reporting sequence will actually occur, and afterward we can make a decision about the quality of any assumptions made today.
BTW -- I'm doing some assuming here too, about what you're assuming. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Mike
@Arthur P. Bloom posted:How many times have we seen a RR vs highway collision that might have been avoided, had only someone called the RR and asked for any trains in the vicinity to slow down or stop.
Let the flames begin...
I dunno, looking at various collision video's, it seems by the time the call to the railroad would be answered and restrictions set in motion, the train has already gone through the immovable object.
Rusty
I've looked at the video several times. As a former private pilot (with a commercial license), I cannot imagine how he managed to crash-land it right on the railroad track, and on a fast-train commuter line as well.
@Yellowstone Special posted:I've looked at the video several times. As a former private pilot (with a commercial license), I cannot imagine how he managed to crash-land it right on the railroad track, and on a fast-train commuter line as well.
Runway 12/30 at Whiteman Air Park in Pacoima runs parallel to the Southern Pacific tracks. In fact, when I was taking pilot training there in the early 80s, I used to joke about landing on a moving boxcar...
My late father's Ercoupe is still parked there, last I checked...
https://www.airport-data.com/a...photo/001131339.html
Mitch
Yes, but still . . . 
By the way, that Ercoupe is awesome! Haven't seen one of those in decades. Only, looks like the tires need to be inflated before takeoff. 😉
@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:I used to fly the same type of aircraft (Cessna) from that same airfield in the early 1980s. Whiteman Air Park, right next to the Southern Pacific line going through Pacoima. Back then, it was freight-only; CalTrans commuter service came later. Wonder if I knew the plane or the pilot...
Mitch
It's a 172H built the latter part of '67 The Pilot is the current owner, looks like he got it in 2009.
@Yellowstone Special posted:Yes, but still . . .
Yeah, I miss that old bird. I plan to build one in 1:48 scale for the layout at some point. 
@EscapeRocks posted:It's a 172H built the latter part of '67 The Pilot is the current owner, looks like he got it in 2009.
(nods) I learned in 152s, mid 70s vintage, as well as in the Coupe. Got a name for the chap?
Mitch
@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:Yeah, I miss that old bird. I plan to build one in 1:48 scale for the layout at some point.
(nods) I learned in 152s, mid 70s vintage, as well as in the Coupe. Got a name for the chap?
Mitch
Hey Mitch!
Got my private in a 152 in Colorado in 1985. Then moved onto Arrows for complex and my instrument, and eventually the Baron for my multi. I still fly.
Is your email in your profile? I don't want to post personal info for someone I don't know publicly
The weight relationship may be like running your car over a beer can, but looking at one of the still pictures at the beginning of one of the videos, showing the engine after the crash, obviously there's still risk for the engine crew. It appears the engineer's front window got smashed pretty good. Fortunately it appears that the object that hit the window didn't penetrate it, but it had to be pretty frightening.
As far as why he crashed on tracks. He knew he was going down, and wanted to avoid the building in a few seconds he had left of controllable flight is how I see it
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I wonder if the RR is or could be on the police dispatch frequency given the location of the air strip in a congested area. Most police have live radios attached to their shirts now.
@EscapeRocks posted:As far as why he crashed on tracks. He knew he was going down, and wanted to avoid the building in a few seconds he had left of controllable flight is how I see it
Yeah, looks like he was coming in hot* on Runway 12. Looking at the crash footage, it looks like he didn't have full flaps down. On a 1200 foot runway, that's a mistake, as I can attest. I wound up julienning a traffic cone at that turnoff back in 1982 while practicing flaps up landings...
Mitch
*possibly attempting a go-around?
@wb47 posted:I wonder if the RR is or could be on the police dispatch frequency given the location of the air strip in a congested area.
No. The FCC would never allow such confusing cross-chatter.
Most police have live radios attached to their shirts now.
Yes, but ONLY connected to each other and their dispatcher.
As a side note, did the local police call the PROPER railroad, i.e the passenger commuter RR or the host railroad (not being familiar with that operation, I don't know which operation actually dispatches the passenger trains)?
The rule, "Do not stop on railroad crossings", applies to airplanes as well as motor vehicles.
I do not see how police dispatch to train dispatch would be that difficult to work out.
Just wow! That is about the most dramatic real life rescue I have ever seen! Kudos to the LAPD officers. I hope ( and imagine they will) get some official commendations.
@wb47 posted:I do not see how police dispatch to train dispatch would be that difficult to work out.
It isn't, and yet it is.
@Arthur P. Bloom embedded a very nice hint in his posting earlier in this thread. I'll repost it here:
Thank you Arthur.
Read it, at least the the Executive Summary if you don't have time for the whole thing. It's not a cakewalk, but it's quite possible, and the method has already been created after learning from many grade crossing accidents in the past. Maybe it's even already in place in LA, and at the accident site?
Mike
will the "new" train safety control system incorporate anything useful alone these lines? I was thinking that it would have the ability to stop or slow a train if danger lurks. Or Not? Or maybe Kate Shelley running to flag a train is the best we can come up with.
The ATC systems are keyed to GPS and signals to make sure signals are obeyed , they will not stop a train any faster than the engineer can. as far as the police were concerned getting the guy out was first priority then make a call. all crossings are required to have the dispatchers emergency number on them. A call to the dispatcher and him calling the train would have taken far longer than this whole event from start to finish. looking at the tracks the train came around a curve very close to the crossing , not much time to do anything other than go into emergency.
@wb47 posted:will the "new" train safety control system incorporate anything useful alone these lines?
No, as the new PTC (Positive Train Control) is designed to keep trains fro colliding with each other. Thus, PTC would have no ability to know if a grade crossing was not clear.
I was thinking that it would have the ability to stop or slow a train if danger lurks.
The current PTC system only monitors "danger" involving other trains being too close.
Or Not? Or maybe Kate Shelley running to flag a train is the best we can come up with.
Sure.
PLEASE do not second guess that amazing save by those BRAVE officers! They are true heroes and should be officially cited for their actions! BRAVO!
