Train watching and video taping via Drone - Do any of you have one and what would you recommend?

I suggest joining  a local RC flying club and learn to Fly. . .( Get one that will have  a return to base feature if you lose control.  

I agree that using a drone with a good hi res camera  for railroad photo/ videography is a great idea. However, you should be aware that if the FAA has it's way, you will need to register any drone that weighs more than 6 ounces--- and that the drone will have to have the registration sticker affixed to it. I would also be careful that you only operate the drone from public land--- and if on private property that you obtain permission from the owner beforehand.  I would also not fly the drone over railyards-- The RR police might take a dim view of your little spy plane---

Whether we like it or not, technology moves forward it doesn't stand still for anyone nor any reason.  Though there have been some valid comments made, we must recognize that we are living in a new era.  This isn't the 50's --> 90' anymore.  Technology has afforded us the ability to improve our way of life, our health, the manner in which we work, communicate and purchase goods and services. 

Part of this technological revolution has to do with autonomous vehicles and devices.  The use of drones, for hobby purposes, I believe is a great boon to those who are interested in taking aerial shots of places and scenes that otherwise were impossible to get.  The attached clip from my original post is one such example of the ability to use these devices for all of us to enjoy. 

Yes we must be mindful of accessing private property and using the devices in a safe and prudent manner.  I'm sure some of you have used your ground based camera from time to time from some vantage point that wasn't exactly on public property nor did you have permission to enter it. 

So my question remains, those of you who do operate such devices, what are you using and what should a newbie in this hobby be mindful of wrt to the device and its attributes? 

My buddie's got one.  Took it on a sailboat trip on Lake Michigan and he made a video.  It was pretty amazing.  I can't tell you what type or camera, although a Gopro seems to ring a bell.  Set him back about $1500 I believe.  I thought it was cool.  It sure had some range and he landed it back to a guy on our moving sailboat.  Pretty impressive little toy.

Syma X5SC quad-copter with a 2MP HD camera. Takes pretty decent videos for the price point.

This is an "entry level" drone. Runs anywhere from $65 to $75 depending on the seller. An easy one to learn on and is very stable providing there's no wind, And that's one of the keys.  If you fly these in too much wind it'll disappear into a tree, roof top etc.

I would recommend something along these lines to learn to fly on. The photography piece of it is nice but you need to know how to fly first!   Don't buy one of those $1000 models as a starter. You'll regret it. Another thing:  just about all but the very high-end drones have very limited flight times (LiPo batteries). Buy extra batteries!

I guess the main point is there are drones and then there are drones. There are pure "toys" out there that are probably poorly made, but even for $100 --  or a little more -- you can get something that will perform very well. And the camera technology is surprisingly  good, even for lower cost models. At the other end are the high-end models. These can run thousands of $$$ and certainly aren't intended for beginners or newbies.

I would suggest going over to YouTube and viewing some of the many product reviews and test flights. Some  are very informative and well done with nice videos. 

Just like trains -- don't buy until you do your homework!

One other thing to consider.  Insurance companies are scrambling to exclude liability coverage as a result of damage done by a policy owner's drone.  

This will be interesting to watch how successful the government is in protecting people via legislation from irresponsible done operators/drones  while allowing responsible usage for trained operators as you have outlined.

Ed

The DJI Phantom has been very popular.  You can read a little about a guy who went to the extreme here:

http://blog.grumpysworld.com/

Not for the timid.   A few months ago I suggested he land his whirlycopter right on top of a lead engine heading to Wichita, and get a heck of a video.  I told him to have a buddy about 30 miles down the track with a duplicate remote to lift the whirlycopter back off.

I've thought about buying one, lots of open spaces with no trees.  However, the wind here would quickly kill it.

Kent in SD

I would be cautious about flying above a train as all railroad property is private property.  

Personally I think drone photography is a gimmick and don't look at the results. Most are all the same.

jim pastorius posted:

Personally I think drone photography is a gimmick and don't look at the results. Most are all the same.

Totally agree! It might be really nice for scenery, but when photographing/videoing trains, especially steam operations, the sound is all important. That sound is NOT available with the drones.

DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR AND AVOID LEGAL PROBLEMS : google drone laws , before you even buy one , there are restrictions on what you can do techman 

I received a small one yesterday from my daughter-in-law who manages our local Ratshack. It was fun trying to fly it this afternoon. I used to fly RC aerobatics years ago but this is completely different...

jim pastorius posted:

Personally I think drone photography is a gimmick and don't look at the results. Most are all the same.

Cripes.  About 95% of foamer shots all look the same, don't they?   It's not the machine you use, it's the Vision behind it.  I say what the heck.  Give it a try if you think it might be fun.

Kent in SD

No, it is the drone shots that all look alike. As for the rail fans and different shots, you have to take what they give you in the way of rosters,  freight cars and most important of all -the rules and laws such as private property and interfering with the train operation.  Nothing better than getting a nice shot of the engineer in the cab giving you a friendly wave. Drone shots are always high with a little train down below with some hills, river and a bridge. Sort of like an HO layout.

I can think of quite a few shots that would be cool and not otherwise possible without a drone.  It really comes down to Vision (i.e. creativity.)

Kent in SD

I am an owner of a large drone..actually a hexacopter so I understand the interest.  While one can take pictures and videos using a drone flying way above trains...I am not so sure I would use a train forum to ask specific questions and advice about what kind of drone to buy.  There are plenty of drone blogs that are more appropriate to search for these questions..

Alan

As much as don't like drones, that video is way better than runbys at 10 feet.

i think drones are to RC flying as snowboarders were to snow skiers. For the most part they ignore rules. If you cruise one of their forums you will get the idea.

The "see and be seen" problem is real in congested airspace. Most drone pilots don't know what I'm talking about and don't care. The FAA has authority over most major cities from the surface up to certain altitudes.  I hope they use it. I don't want one coming through my windshield at 180 knots.

Love the video---makes the real world look like a big model railroad

I think this type of "photography" can be very useful to all the train people in our world---giving us a different perspective than the usual "trackside" photos

Just my take

Thx
Joe S   

Man, what a layout !!!  The scenery material must be made under the "Mother Nature's" brand

I can't get over the optics on these things.  My daughter gave me an iPad Air for Christmas and the clarity beats anything I have as far as cameras go.

The Barnie Fifes of the world will fill your head full of gloom and doom, always pointing out the problems and sucking the fun out of everything.  If you want a drone to take photos of trains go get one and have a blast.

Guys thank for your responses, I'll check out the link provided by TWO23.

Alan, out of curiosity, what are you using a hexacopter for? 

Also though I understand your view point with regards to seeking out a drone blog, this is another form of photography and often on this site we discuss issues related to it.  Thus I don't think I'm out of line asking fellow forum members what types of units they are using for this type of application.

GVDOBLER is a pilot like me, and I also worry about drone use specially near airports.  Drones are not R/C airplanes /helocopters; R/C planes are usually confined to appropriate areas while we are seeing drones everywhere.

What I would like is a drone that is okay to fly indoors that can take videos of train layouts, especially at shows.  Maybe a good topic for the 3rail forum.

GVDobler posted:

drones are to RC flying as snowboarders were to snow skiers. For the most part they ignore rules

Thought I was the only one who noticed that on the slopes. That being said I agree that most drone "pilots" and I use that term loosely, don't think any rules apply to them or they are completely clueless as to any type of rules that may apply. Sad, the jerks will ruin it for the rest of us.

Jerry

 There's nothing like having 4 big knife blades swirling around with an inexperienced pilot.  

Haven't perused the drone blogs at all yet but I would think that some good video could be made by a drove pacing a train at a safe close range. Imagine starting at the caboose/observation (or FRED) and traveling alongside the train at a mile or two faster until passing the locomotive and sweeping around the nose while rising to a panorama view. Don't know if that is possible or legal but the possibilities are immense. 

I checked out the link that TWO23 suggested: http://blog.grumpysworld.com/ 

Though it contains some very nice photographs of trains and lots of discussion on how to take great train shots I didn't find anything related to drone train photography nor the equipment that he uses.

Two23 posted:

 

I've thought about buying one, lots of open spaces with no trees.  However, the wind here would quickly kill it.

 Kent in SD

LOL Kent, I gave up even trying to fly either my quad or fixed wing aircraft when I moved here... The only time I could find low winds was right at daylight, right a dark or some in the winter and I am not standing out there to fly at 5 below.

To the OP, like some others have said, start with a cheapy and learn to fly it well before spending the money on one of the more feature loaded. My first quad was back in my robot days and it showed up in the mail from a manufacturer wanting a review article for Robot Mag. I had never flown one before and all I can say is thank god the manufacturer had me on a will call free replacement parts list... I went through many props, a couple of landing gears, a motor and an arm before we were on the same page.

Ted

Gregg posted:

 There's nothing like having 4 big knife blades swirling around with an inexperienced pilot.  

They are drone operators, not pilots.  True drones fly themselves, the operator just tells it were to go. 

Just watched this interesting clip on the "Top 5 Drones You Should Have (w/cameras)"

CAPPilot posted:

Gregg posted:

 There's nothing like having 4 big knife blades swirling around with an inexperienced pilot.  

They are drone operators, not pilots.  True drones fly themselves, the operator just tells it were to go. 

Yes,     WE have a few  drone /quad copters  at the RC club I belong to .  I'm not crazy about them.... I have a hard enough time keeping my  Super cub ,  carbon cub in the air without those things buzzing close by. 

I suppose the drones you're talking about  have  very sophisticated electronics on board. 

 I got my wings after a couple years of RC flying at the club  but I know I'm not a pilot.  (just think and wish  I   was.) 

Thank You C.SAM

Really enjoyed the top 5 clip

Sam, Thanks for the link, I not only enjoyed that specific video but the other video's introducing new products/technologies.

Here's one of the 1st things needed:

https://registermyuas.faa.gov/

I don't own one, but this video of the Cumbres and Toltec is about the best 2 1/2 minutes of video I have seen:

Good videos but for the music. Ag is rapidly latching onto drone technology & wind has not been mentioned as a serious limitation so far.

Great example of what a drone can do for train photography!  Beautifully done!  Just think of the expense and time if that video had to be produced in a more traditional manner? 

Allegheny posted:

Great example of what a drone can do for train photography!  Beautifully done!  Just think of the expense and time if that video had to be produced in a more traditional manner? 

Yes, it surely is an EXCELLENT scenery video. But, who wants watch a video of spectacular steam locomotive action without realtime sound? In my opinion, music and steam locomotive sounds just don't go together, no matter how great the photography is.

Bob Delbridge posted:

Here's one of the 1st things needed:

https://registermyuas.faa.gov/

Well, maybe.

Many of the starter and "entry-level" drones do not meet the weight requirement threshold and therefore do not need to be registered.

More importantly, the Academy of Model Aeronautics has identified a number of problems and possible defects in the FAA's regs, and has officially advised its membership to hold off on registering until the FEB '16 deadline while discussions are ongoing. 

Bottom line: Registration isn't a given for all models and look for some tweaking by the FAA as they get more into this.

Allegheny posted:

My question to those of you who may own one are:

   1. What features do your recommend the unit have and more importantly what to look out for?  

   2. What type of camera system do you recommend? 

The DJI Phantom is a very popular first drone, easy to learn, and there is a wealth of information available online.

There are basically two types of systems: an integrated drone / camera / FPV system like the Phantom 3 (you'll need your own phone or tablet to use FPV), or a 'build it yourself' approach.

I chose to build my own, selecting the Phantom 2 with the ZenMuse gimbal, a GoPro Hero 4 Black, and a FlySight Black Pearl FPV system. It's a little more complicated to get started, but in my opinion it has three advantages over an integrated system:

- the GoPro video quality is superior to what was available from the DJI P2 Vision (predecessor of the P3) when I bought mine.

- if I want to upgrade the camera when e.g. the Hero 5 comes out, I can do so without paying for a new drone and FPV.

- you can learn to fly the drone before attaching the gimbal and camera, and minimize the risk of breaking something expensive while getting familiar with controlling it.

There is one disadvantage to using a non-integrated system. You can turn the recording on and off or change other settings in the P3 while the drone is in the air. Using the GoPro, you have to set the camera and turn it on before liftoff.

This is a video of a recent photo runby in north Georgia that will give you an idea of what it's like from takeoff to landing. About a minute into the video, you can see me in the lower right corner fiddling with something on a tripod - I'm turning on my phone's camera to capture audio of the runby, which kicks in shortly thereafter.

 Joe Fusco put together an excellent video of N&W 611's July excursions that features aerial footage. He uses a dedicated audio recorder in addition to his video recorder and Phantom 2 / GoPro setup.

This video shows the after-dark possibilities (the pathway is a former railroad ROW near our house).

Yes yes, time marches on, technology blah blah blah...

The reality of the situation is that you can't get these desired overhead shots without overflying the railway's right of way. Does that in any way shape or form sound like a responsible use of a drone?

Inevitably someone is going to hover in front of an oncoming train to get that elusive "Wile E. Coyote" shot, and... SMACK! Yeah, that's going to go over real well with railroad management.

You don't think it'll happen? Railfans are CRAZY when it comes to getting "the shot." One youtube video of NKP 765's excursions through Western NY last summer shows an SUV racing the train along a stretch of Dale Rd in Attica. People standing in the road. People standing along both sides of the road. The car racing the train came flying around the curve and right through everyone. Never even slowed down. They had to get that shot. It was a miracle nobody got hit. Not a lick of common sense or self-preservation among the lot of them.