From the photos shown, this happened early morning today......Dec 21st! I do not have much I could find, but it is a sorry mishap, and perhaps the age of the bridge is a factor. I know, once I was an Archaeologist doing field work in the immediate vicinity of that bridge. I believe it may be even pre-civil war.
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Railroad wrecking cranes might have done this job better then the Cat D9's with outrigger booms. But none left these days? On any railroad?
The video does not seem to show much if any, damage to the track on the bridge structure from overhead or in the horizontal photo. The bridge span girders seem unaffected a well. However the cat walk beside the rails is wiped out from the cars that slid over it when derailed.
That bridge, while laid out on an 1860's track plan, is much more modern than its original wood trusses. They were replaced with steel deck girder spans seen in the photos during the first half of the 20th Century.
From the position of other cars in that train to the left still on the rails, the empty covered hoppers that derailed likely string-lined when going through the reverse curve leading onto the bridge.
Both mid-19th century curves at that location are rather tight. Heavier or more cars at the rear of the train on the back curve could have allowed these long, empty and rather light weight cars to be pulled up and over the edge of the oppositely curved rails on the bridge.
Just my 2 cents worth of observation here, but a later report should determine the cause of that derailment.
S. Islander
https://wtop.com/local/2019/12...rpers-ferry-west-va/
Those were empties and it looks like they were pulled off the inside of the curve, same as at Horseshoe Curve last Summer.
Classic case of S curve-itis 
Holly crap Batman. What a mess.
This looks like a train-handling derailment. Either too much dynamic brake or too much pulling with light cars on the head end.
Rich Melvin posted:This looks like a train-handling derailment. Either too much dynamic brake or too much pulling with light cars on the head end.
Agreed. A classic case of "string-lining", i.e. heavy cars on the rear, with empty cars on the headend, pulling through a tight "S" curve.
When I was in grade school we took a family trip to the east coast and one stop was at Harpers Ferry. I think it was 5 of us 7 siblings and our parents in a station wagon. My brothers and I walked halfway across that bridge on the ties as a dare, expecting a train to burst through the tunnel at any moment forcing us to jump off and into the river below. I swear I broke the Guinness record for rock skipping at the confluence of the two rivers. We had the book with us. I skipped it 21 times, the record was 16. Alas, I never did get credit for that, but I remember it well.
Video of the area from 2011:
William 1 posted:When I was in grade school we took a family trip to the east coast and one stop was at Harpers Ferry. I think it was 5 of us 7 siblings and our parents in a station wagon. My brothers and I walked halfway across that bridge on the ties as a dare, expecting a train to burst through the tunnel at any moment forcing us to jump off and into the river below. I swear I broke the Guinness record for rock skipping at the confluence of the two rivers. We had the book with us. I skipped it 21 times, the record was 16. Alas, I never did get credit for that, but I remember it well.
As additional information, there are two bridges there at Harpers Ferry, first and foremost is the double track B&O main line, second is the VERY old, single track, Civil War era bridge form the Shenendoaha (sp) branch, involved in this derailment. The freight train was obviously coming off the branch line, heading east for Brunswick, MD.
Pretty darn sure it was the single track line. I remember walking through a trestle structure above the tracks. This was circa 1970. Got a little off topic there, but I couldn’t resist, it brought back a fond memory. Looks like a bad wreck. What a mess.
I know that as model train operators, none of us has ever had this string-lining problem... 
Rich Melvin posted:This looks like a train-handling derailment. Either too much dynamic brake or too much pulling with light cars on the head end.
Or it could have been an undesired emergency brake application near the rear causing the rear to sit down and pulling the train off of the rails. Since we are all guessing here, I would suspect that since the AT shares the bridge, the speed of the train would be slow, which in turn would exacerbate a UDE.
Being within driving distance of Harper's Ferry, WV, I've had the thrill of walking across that bridge (sometimes with my bicycle) many times. It's a great place to visit, especially for train-buffs. I've even seen Amtrak there. Great place for train watching.
Rich Melvin posted:This looks like a train-handling derailment. Either too much dynamic brake or too much pulling with light cars on the head end.
Train handling. How can you look at the picture and conclude it was train handling. As a retired engineer I must ask. Is it a heavy downgrade that would necessitate heavy dynamic braking or a steep incline that requires heavy pulling. Does the timetable limit the amount of power to be used at the head end when pulling through this section of track. Please explain your rational in determining it must be train handling.
Was told today from a reliable source a couple things about this. First, the train was stopped on a S-curve which is on the bridge approach. The engineer released the brakes but was in a hurry. He throttled up before the brakes had been fully released and...ker-splash! He was also to have been terminated today. Was his second major accident in a year's time.
Dave Albright posted:Was told today from a reliable source a couple things about this. First, the train was stopped on a S-curve which is on the bridge approach. The engineer released the brakes but was in a hurry. He throttled up before the brakes had been fully released and...ker-splash! He was also to have been terminated today. Was his second major accident in a year's time.
Well now, that pretty well answers the post by "FOREST", above and confirms just what Rich Melvin posted. Imagine THAT!
Terminating the engineer sounds pretty harsh. I hope they just terminated his job.
Remember, he's union. He can and will apply for reinstatement.
The footbridge has re-opened in early July, following the derailment:
https://www.heraldmailmedia.co...cc-f0f41a060174.html
David
They released a report last week, blaming the engineer for the accident. Excessive braking??
@Forest posted:Train handling. How can you look at the picture and conclude it was train handling. As a retired engineer I must ask. Is it a heavy downgrade that would necessitate heavy dynamic braking or a steep incline that requires heavy pulling. Does the timetable limit the amount of power to be used at the head end when pulling through this section of track. Please explain your rational in determining it must be train handling.
There are two posts in this thread that attributed the derailment to train handling:
To be perfectly honest, both messages, while they may likely be the truth, are hearsay, and they don't have to be believed.
Personally, the way the cars are lying in relation to the curve, my first inclination would be to say that they are string lined, which is caused by excessive draft force. But, we have no information as to the point of first derailment, which is critical in investigating an accident of this type. So, did the Engineer pull too hard? Did he begin trying to move the train before the brakes at the rear of the train had released? Did one truck of a car derail from a mechanical or track failure, and then dig in, string lining cars ahead of it? Did an undesired emergency brake application occur and cause the empties on the rear of the train to "squat" while the loads on the head end could not be stopped as quickly? And how fast was the train going when it derailed?
These are all possibilities that had to be considered by the railroad in its investigation of the accident. And, since the derailment put cars into a river that is used for the water supply of downstream communities, we can be certain that the FRA, and possibly the NTSB, also took part in the accident investigation, and that it was carefully investigated.
The short version of the findings is quite sufficient for this Forum. We are not the Air Brake Association.
So, each of us can favor the root cause that most satisfies us. I would like to see an official statement about the cause. Meanwhile, we on this Forum have a video and a couple of messages posted in good faith, pointing toward excessive draft force. If the Engineer actually was dismissed over his responsibility in this derailment, then we can be sure there is evidence to back up the dismissal. With modern day event recorders, the investigating committee could get detailed information about the activity aboard the locomotive.
The following information was taken from the FRA Railroad Accident Report associated with this incident, that CSX filed with FRA.
Train consisted of 2 units, 0 loads, 105 empties, 3236 tons.
FRA Cause Code applied as cause for this incident is: H514- Failure to allow air brakes to fully release before proceeding.
The report states "As CSX train B80220 began to make a pulling move from a complete stop, engineer used excessive force to make initial movement with brakes still applied on train, resulting in string line derailment...."
As Tom mentions in his post, this root caused was arrived at through a complete and thorough investigation of the incident, including locomotive event recorder downloads and employee statements, along with any physical evidence at the scene.
Submitted in the interest of keeping things factual......
C.J.
That settles it, C.J. Thanks.
@GP40 posted:The following information was taken from the FRA Railroad Accident Report associated with this incident, that CSX filed with FRA.
Train consisted of 2 units, 0 loads, 105 empties, 3236 tons.
FRA Cause Code applied as cause for this incident is: H514- Failure to allow air brakes to fully release before proceeding.
The report states "As CSX train B80220 began to make a pulling move from a complete stop, engineer used excessive force to make initial movement with brakes still applied on train, resulting in string line derailment...."
Dang! He must have really been in a hurry!!!
As I said in post #8 back on December 21, "...This looks like a train-handling derailment..."
I shoulda' been an investigator...
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