Trains stop on O27 switches

What kind of O27 switches are these?  If they are Marx with the sprung plastic frog, then there's no hope.  Is the problem with just ONE switch, or all of them?

I can't vouch for the Polar Express Berk.  The other locos should work fine on Lionel O27 switches (although the cab of the 646 may hit the indicator housing on some types of switches, if the switch is adjacent to a curve.)  More info, please!

So they all do it, and I have 4 Lionel switches and 2 k line switches. 2 left hand and 4 right hand. Nothing special about them

I have no experience with K-Line switches.

Over the years Lionel made many different O27 switches.  Is there a number embossed on the base?  How about some photos?

My thoughts:  If the switches have a "Non-derailing" feature, did you install insulating pins?  Are they in the right place (usually the inside rails, closest to the frog)?  How are you powering your switches?  If you're using something other than track power, maybe the power supply for the switches is out-of-phase with the track.  Try disconnecting the wires to the switch and see if the sparking stops. 

More thoughts: Are the switches level on the table?  Are the baseplates bent (maybe having been stepped on?) 

A 646 and a 2037 should be able to negotiate any Lionel O27 switch.

When I get a chance I’ll take a look at the numbers on the switches, but they are all level and they are all manual switches, so track power runs through them, none of them have the non detailing feature that I’ve seen. 

Are these the only 3 locos you have?  If not, do ANY of your locos make it through?  Is there any evidence that the locos or switches have been modified by a prior owner?

There's no doubt that the 2037 is an O27 loco.  Variations of its 6-wheel chassis were used in several locos from 1938-1968.  Many of them  came in sets with O27 track.  Something's off here.  Photos of the switches, the bottom and sides of the loco would be very helpful.

I had 027 switches on my first layout in the 1950's.  My Hudson used to stop on the switch.  There were sparks and it dropped into neutral.  The switch base was plastic or the like and part of the rails, maybe the frog, was molded in the base.  The plastic would wear down with use.  As the Hudson passed, the wheels would drop down and the cow catcher would short on the rails dropping the loco into neutral.

In neutral, help one through by hand until it drops out, tilt it off the rails and the roller is at least pointing across the rails and across the problem.

I think Adriatic is on target with this one. BTW, this is a really old, and well documented issue with O27 track/switches, 6019 remote control tracks, etc.

Coincidentally, I was running trains today to figure out which engines & rolling stock were shorting out directly on top of my manual O27 switches - this test track is sitting on a large table, and is relatively flat. I found that the overhang of the contact rollers was causing the problem.

The quick and dirty solution was a piece of green painter's tape to insulate the offending rail. It's easily removable, and doesn't leave residue like regular masking tape. The shorts were occurring directly under the tape - how did I know, you ask?

I peeled back the tape so you can easily see the evidence in the form of many little burn marks at the "north" end of the movable rail. The tape works really well and it is dirt cheap and a quick repair. Others use Rose Red fingernail polish , or similar paint, liquid tape, electrical tape, etc.

Still, I chose to go one step further, not wanting to deal with tape and all. The rollers on my worst offender (a 2466W tender) were flat from one end to the other, whereas newer rollers are frequently tapered at both ends to provide clearance for just such shorting occasions. So I bent the contact arms just enough to remove the roller, I chucked it into my drill and held a nice sharp file at what I guessed I wanted for an angle, and a few minutes later, I had a roller that did not require the use of tape to get across an O27 switch!

But before you start sprinkling metal shavings all over your carpet, be aware this doesn't always provide enough clearance. I did the same with a couple more pieces of rolling stock, one worked, the other didn't. Time to tinker some more. It's all about the geometry of end play, side-to-side play, bent roller arms, yada, yada, yada, so one method probably won't work for all your woes!

 Anyway, look for burn marks using Adriatic's suggestion - go slow, when the engine shorts out & stops, tip it on its side and you'll probably see the little burn marks directly across from the contact roller. Good luck!

Old027Collector, (I see you're only 20 years old... you should be "Young027Collector" , unless you are referring to collecting OLD track... )

I think Geopeg's photos above really illustrate what is very potentially the problem you are having.

I also use 027 track and currently, only the modern post-MPC style 027 switch. By the way, I use manual switches too, sometimes with nylon fishline connected to the slide lever on the switch to give me operation without having to reach over the whole layout.

Anyways, what Geopeg has illustrated with his photos is the only trouble I have had, BUT not with everything. It is an occasional problem, and only with some locomotives and rolling stock.  Pickup rollers on some products have gotten wider over the years, which can lead to the problem you are experiencing. 

Also wheel wobble of locomotive wheel sets. I have one Lionel Industrial Switcher that was sporadically giving me trouble on switch tracks. I noticed there was quite a bit of play in one of the locomotive wheel sets. Then I remembered a trick Gunrunnerjohn mentioned about using the slide-on snap locks from ordinary bread bags. You cut down the size just a little, and may want to enlarge the opening on the slide-on snap lock just a little bit. I slid that over the axle on the side of the loco opposite the gears, and that engine has given me no trouble since.

Same goes for rolling stock. I have one particular car with a wider width pickup roller, and that one car gives me trouble on occasion.

Wheel gauge can also be another issue. This would be more understandable with well-used postwar rolling stock where there may be more wheel wobble due to wearing of the axles. But I once bought a bulk bag of fifty fast angle wheel sets and was quite surprised to see the variety in gauge of wheelsets in the very same group.

At one time I was also using the older sheet metal construction postwar Lionel 1024 027 switches. On those, I had no problem with shorting, but with power loss. I quickly realized these were 70 year old switch tracks and that either the folds in the rails and base were loose or there was maybe some unseen rust or corrosion. At any rate, I soldered a couple feeder wires on the underside of the switch track, and that problem ended.

So hope you are able to troubleshoot and solve your problem. It's not just 027 turnouts. If you read here often enough, there are problems posted with nearly every brand of switch track, not because the turnouts are bad, but in part now because there is so much variety of locomotives, all designed petty much the same, and yet subtly different. And sometimes it is that subtle difference that can give you so much trouble.

I've encountered numerous, but surmountable problems with O27 switches. I inherited my grandfather's 1121 switches, and he did as well.  On several 1121s, he soldered a wire from one end of the switches' straight end's center rail to the other end of the straight. I presume this was to guard against intermittent voltage. These are NOT non-derailing switches, so it may not be a good strategy for non-derailing switches, not sure.

On my last layout, using modern Lionel O27 42" curve switches, I got lots of sparking like you've mentioned. I resolved a lot of it by keeping the blackened, moving piece (called frog, I think) painted with simple model paint. I noticed their wear from use had left bare metal exposed and this appeared to be a source of sparking.

Just lock the e unit in forward and plow through it

Thanks for the tip on the roller width.  I'll try the tape fix.

Don

Geopeg is on the right track.

Pick up rollers especially on larger trains touch the track at the same time in different places causing a short. Sometimes the moving switch plate wobbles and (right where geopeg's photo shows tape) touches the train bottom.  Some use tape, black, some use scotch tape and I've read some use nail polish to cover it. 

Good Luck!!

I will add another product to your list of things to stop sparking/shorting; Brush on Krazy Glue. Just like it says, brush on some of the glue on the particular surface you want to insulate. That's what I did and it worked.