Travel Advice Requested

Arthur,

If you look at the center of Amtrak's national route map you'll see that you have a substantial challenge:

If you were to take the train to any "nearby" station, you're still quite a long away from your intended destination (at least a 3 hour drive from Douglas WY, which is actually an Amtrak Bus Stop and not a rail station ?).

That's probably why the Amtrak agents couldn't really help you.

Mike

Considering the very poor onetime performance of ANY Amtrak trains, you would be much better off to fly to Rapid City, SD.

Since Amtrak does not serve South Dakota, probably Amtrak’s Lake Shore Ltd. from NYC to Chicago. Then the California Zephyr to Denver. Catch a United flight from Denver to Rapid City, then there are bus tours to Mt. Rushmore from Rapid City.

Did you ever see Hitchcock’s North by Northwest ? 😉

Hot Water makes a good point. Amtrak’s California Zephyr service is often delayed because of overland freight trains which have priority over Amtrak trains, since the freight railroads, in this case Union Pacific, own the tracks.

@Yellowstone Special posted:

Since Amtrak does not serve South Dakota, probably Amtrak’s LakeShore Ltd. from NYC to Chicago. Then its California Zephyr to Denver. Catch a United flight from Denver to Rapid City, then there are bus tours to Mt. Rushmore from Rapid City.

Did you ever see Hitchcock’s North by Northwest ? 😉

Why not take the LakeShore Ltd to Chicago and then fly directly to Rapid City. Amtrak service to Denver may not be all that reliable either.

If it was me I would take the train to the Mississippi and then rent car (actually a motorcycle). Once west of the river take the blue highways and see the country. Avoid the semis and you can make nearly the same time.  Much more interesting than the interstates and you can stop when and where you feel like it and see the sites.

Pete

@Hot Water posted:

Why not take the LakeShore Ltd to Chicago and then fly directly to Rapid City. Amtrak service to Denver may not be all that reliable either.

Well, he stated he wanted to take the train whenever he could. If it were me, I’d take the train to Chicago, then fly to Rapid City from there.

Arthur, let us know what you decide.

If it were me, I'd take the Amtrak "Empire Builder" out of Chicago to Minot, ND (of course, after taking Amtrak from NYC to Chicago).  Then, I would rent a car in Minot for the 5 hour or so drive down to Rapid City.  Simply reverse the trip to go home.  Also, while you're in the area, be sure to ride the Black Hills steam train.

Chuck

Arthur, all good advice given above.  We just moved out of SD,  and you'd be best to avoid the Sturgis, SD motorcycle rally week (ends Aug 13th) and maybe the week after that since the area is just so darn crowded then.

Rich

Your best bet is Omaha but it gets in like 11 pm or Denver might not be too bad. I've done Omaha to Rockville, MD for the 2018 O scale nation and it was a pretty good, smooth ride.

Dick

Thanks to all of you who offered advice.

I've done a trip on Amtrak and rented a car to get where I'm going twice.  Once to Colorado Springs/Durango/Chama and once to Billings Montana.  (Got my train trip with miles.)

Key thing is availability of rental cars.  If I were going to Rapid City, I'd take the California Zephyr to Denver or the Empire Builder to Williston.  It's a longish drive from either stop.

Arthur, we don't even know whether you drive.  

However, presuming that you do, there's just no way to do this by train, without also doing some driving (or going part way by airline).  Since most of us don't actually know you, we can only wonder if you are pretty good with using Amtrak and airline smart phone apps, or possibly you are still a pen and paper guy.  To do a trip like this and not use phone apps is not impossible, but is somewhat more challenging, due to making connections.  Some connections could be where the Empire Builder stops during darkness and you wait around until morning to get your auto rental.  And you may miss a train connection at Chicago if your inbound train is late.  This happened to me last year and Amtrak provided me with a very nice hotel room, ground transportation to and from the hotel, and a voucher for breakfast at the hotel.  They had me booked on the next day's train, in a bedroom.  I have nothing but praise for the way Amtrak handled it.  But, I still lost a day of vacation at my destination.

Are you willing to put up with some inconvenience?  I'm referring getting a taxi or an Uber from a train station to an airport which may not be near each other (such as St. Paul or Chicago)?  Are you willing to fly at all?  And, if so, are you willing to accept weather delays that often affect the smaller regional jets?  There are only a couple of full size airliners in and out of Rapid City daily,

One Boeing 737 to Rapid City is operated by Delta Air Lines from Minneapolis, and it arrives at 10:30 at night.  Out of Rapid City, the return to Minneapolis on Delta's 737 departs at 5:30 AM.  

The other airline that flies the Boeing 737, and also an Airbus, in and out of Rapid City is United.  It is possible to take the electric train from Denver Union Station to the Denver airport and connect that way on United.

These days, the entire airlines operation in a region just collapses if there are any severe storms.  So, you have to be resilient and be able to accept whatever may come.

If you don't want to fly for any part of the trip, Amtrak will book you an auto rental at whatever station you end your train trip, at the same time you buy your train ticket.

So, we can hope that you are willing to embark on an adventure in travel, and we certainly would like to know how well things went for you.

Yes, I drive, and (used to) enjoy it. These days, there seems to be increased mental illness and a decline in proficiency on the highways, but I endure it. I have driven between one and two million miles in my short lifetime of 76 years.  I used to have a CDL-A, required by a former employer, but don't need it anymore.

No, I don't like flying.  Falling a few feet is tolerable. Falling 20,000 seems somehow silly.

I don't mind inconveniences that may pop up. I would be travelling without any family members.

I am computer and cell phone savvy.

One day, looking at Google Earth, I noticed a bump of hills where there should be flat land. Further investigation yielded the Black Hills, Deadwood, Sturgis (I had heard of that, being a person who has owned motorcycles.) I know it sounds weird, but I admit my lack of knowledge of that area, until now. This desire to visit the Black Hills is a recent development, and probably ill-advised. It looks like an almost insurmountable set of travel issues, just to satisfy an old man's whim.

I like to go places accessible by train, and then rent a car for the last few miles. I know how to hunt, fish, cook, camp out and survive in the great outdoors. Oh well. I guess I will be an arm-chair tourist for this trip.

Thanks to all who chimed in.  I thought that there might have been something I was missing in my initial inquiries with Amslack.

I suggest a roomette on the the LakeShore Ltd to Chicago, a roomette on the Empire Builder to Williston.  Then, if I had any money left, I'd rent a car and drive. I would reverse the route on the way back. Better yet, I'd get back on the Empire Builder and ride it all the way to Seattle. In fact, I have traveled Chicago to Seattle more than once just to ride the train.

Yes, the Amtrak is not the cheapest way to go, but I found out in 2008 that even I could afford an annual trip

Amtrak, or any train, certainly is not the fastest means of travel.  And sometimes the trains are late. But then, one just rests in ones roomette or room and enjoys more to see  (My experience has taught me that I see more in fifteen minutes on a train than on an entire airline flight--except, of course, for the insides and tops of clouds.)

I am not sure if trains are late any more often than airline flights, and my experience suggests that Amtrak doesn't change schedules so often as airlines change ones scheduled flight. I have been on the Empire Builder the whole distance, round trip, eleven times and have been late thrice, once about an hour, once about five hours, and once eight hours. In the first instance the delay was caused by the need to repair a flat wheel on a sleeper car before bringing the train into Seattle to start the trip.  In the other two instances, the delays were caused by freight airlines having problems. What is more, when the two long delays happened, Amtrak provided extra free food on board and even free pizza and soft drinks in the train station. I have been on the round trip Southwest Chief twice and the round trip California Zephyr twice each; the round trip Texas Eagle once. None of these five trips was late.

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

Yes, I drive, and (used to) enjoy it. These days, there seems to be increased mental illness and a decline in proficiency on the highways, but I endure it. I have driven between one and two million miles in my short lifetime of 76 years.  I used to have a CDL-A, required by a former employer, but don't need it anymore.

No, I don't like flying.  Falling a few feet is tolerable. Falling 20,000 seems somehow silly.

I don't mind inconveniences that may pop up. I would be travelling without any family members.

I am computer and cell phone savvy.

Arthur, you are well equipped to take the train to as close as you can get to the Black Hills and finish the trip in a rented automobile.  And you are much better equipped to take the train out there than I am, as I live several hundred barbed wire fences straight south of the Black Hills by 2-lane highways, and I share your interest in the area.

You have a great idea.  Good luck on your journey.

"And sometimes the trains are late."

I love sarcasm.

I was on an Amtrak train, once, that was on time...just for the record.

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

"And sometimes the trains are late."

I love sarcasm.

I was on an Amtrak train, once, that was on time...just for the record.

On the Northeast Corridor? Otherwise, if it was a western long distance train, that was a pretty rare event.

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

"And sometimes the trains are late."

I love sarcasm.

I was on an Amtrak train, once, that was on time...just for the record.

Arthur,

He's not being as sarcastic as you think, although you definitely are.

I've taken the Southwest Chief out of Chicago to Flagstaff seven times, and it was only late twice; once by an hour once by 2, and that one was understandable because a passenger died in his sleep en-route and after that event the train had to wait at the next station for the local coroner to claim the body.  I've also traveled about six or seven other Amtrak long distance trains in between this, none of which was later than an hour.   Is that better than average?  Yes, most likely.  But, having been stranded overnight by airlines many times before, and some since, I can take an hour or two delay on the train with no problem.

Here's what it comes down to: As with many things discussed on this forum it's often not a good idea impart your experience to other situations unless you do it carefully.  This is akin to one of us saying "My Lionel, or MTH or 3rd Rail, locomotive has never failed me, so it absolutely, positively has to be true that that same model can't possibly have failed anyone else either."

In any of our cases only statistics prove our claims, one way or the other, and they do not come from a sample size of one, or two, or seven, or even twenty.  It takes at least 35 to build a baseline (and that's only if the data is 'normally distributed').

Does anyone here have data to this level of depth for their personal Amtrak trips?   If you do step forward.

Mike

If you get a chance go to Mitchell SD.  See the Corn Palace.  Every year the native Americans decorate a building with corn, to beautiful artwork.

I've ridden a few long-distance Amtrak trips, most recently in December 2001.  My northbound Texas Eagle was late into Fort Worth, and about 2 hrs late leaving Dallas.  It sat motionless on the track for almost 4 hours north of Little Rock (Thanks Union Pacific!), and was about 7 hours behind schedule by the time we crossed into Illinois.  Now this was shortly before Christmas, and I had sleeping car reservations on the eastbound Lake Shore that I was sure I was going to miss.

I had a scanner with me and could hear the BNSF dispatcher talking with local freights and our head-end crew.  He basically parted the Red Sea for us!  The Eagle held 79 mph through most of Illinois.  We were passing cars on the adjacent traffic-choked highways.  They slotted us right into Chicago Union Station on the track next to the Lake Shore, and the conductor told all connecting passengers to immediately board the adjacent train.  I didn't get to sightsee in Chicago, but I made my connection.

Pro tip: you can actually visit the Amtrak website to see whether the train you're interested in is running on schedule.  Check it every day for 2 weeks, and you'll get an idea of how punctual (or not) your train can be.  In my case the published schedule implied a 5-hour layover, so I felt safe making same-day reservations for another train (the eastbound Lake Shore originates in Chicago.)  I was lucky.  If it were closer than that, I probably would have planned to stay overnight in a hotel, and continue my journey the next day.  It's not cheap or particulaly quick, but the train is fun and relaxing way to travel.  When I retire, I won't care if I NEVER take another commercial jet!

Mount Rushmore was built in the Black Hills largely as a way to get tourists into the area; there's really not much of anything else around there.

Whichever way you go, since you prefer to not to fly, is going to involve a fairly long drive over fairly uninteresting flat terrain.

The various court cases over who owns the Black Hills is interesting however.

@Ted S posted:

When I retire, I won't care if I NEVER take another commercial jet!

Here, Here!!!...my sentiments exactly, upon retirement January 1, 1998!!

And 11SE01 and its forever changes to the whole mayhem of air travel sealed that determination even further to this day...nearly 25 years later.

With one exception I now find very hard to resist...

Allegiant Airlines came to our Michigan town...and has direct, non-stop service to our Florida winter home town.  Two and a half hours vs. best minimal stop drive time of 23 hours?  Tried it once.  This home-to-home, non-stop, smaller airport to smaller airport thing is something else!  I may be hooked.

However...

So far we haven't succumbed to storing a car in Floriduh for 6 months.  Haven't succumbed to fees/risks for private car haulers.  Can't afford car rental.  So, it's a nice back pocket and emergency option.  But we continue for the near term in our I-75 ruts.

And, no...Amtrak can't compete.  Not even close...departure point, destination point, routing, time, cost, etc..  (sigh)  And that's too bad, too.  Surely would love to have competitive rail travel for that trip as an option, though!  Ah, yes...those were the days.

KD