Trouble-shooting the K-Line Hudson

Before you go tearing the locomotive apart for no reason, I’d check simple things first. What you are thinking is binding may simply be interruption in power because of dirty track, dirty wheels, or dirty rollers. Clean things first and retest before committing to a tear down......make sure track connections and how ever your powering your track are firmly seated. Interruptions in track power can make it seem like things are binding......I’d start there.........Pat

Sadly I did try making sure everything had a good connection with no success. Track is all new but I went ahead and tried cleaning that and the rollers/pickups on the train as well. My other locos don’t have any issues either so I’ve narrowed it down to the locomotive itself. When it sits at idle the smoke unit works and all lights work fine, in reverse the light on the tender illuminates like it should and shuts off when going back to a forward motion, so I believe all that is in good working order.

On a second note I should correct my first post, the wheels will not make a full revolution either way (forward or reverse). It binds halfway around 

Not saying this is your solution. But I have the K Line Hudson. Over a year ago had similar problem. After taking apart, turned out the motor was loose and binding. Tightening screws and haven't had a problem since.

@josef was it pretty straight forward taking it apart? Remove the large screws on the frame and carefully lift the shell and disconnect wiring to lights or was it a little more complex? I’m just worried about the small parts. Little springs? How long is the wiring to the boiler shell, etc. I’ve disassembled the Lionel starter set engines to fix what I had when I was younger but I’ve never fully dove into a scale locomotive yet so I’m not quite sure what to expect.

Have you checked to see if any of the linkage, drive rods, or valve gear is binding? It may be as simple as a bent piece.

@GeoPeg I checked over all the moving pieces on the exterior of the locomotive when the wheels get to their “bind” position and nothing seemed to be bent or out of place. They all have movement as they should and aren’t locked up either which makes me believe it has to be something internal. 

It’s never that easy sadly! Lol!

Madgrty posted:

@josef was it pretty straight forward taking it apart? Remove the large screws on the frame and carefully lift the shell and disconnect wiring to lights or was it a little more complex? I’m just worried about the small parts. Little springs? How long is the wiring to the boiler shell, etc. I’ve disassembled the Lionel starter set engines to fix what I had when I was younger but I’ve never fully dove into a scale locomotive yet so I’m not quite sure what to expect.

For me its pretty easy to take apart and no problems with possible loose wiring being pinched when put back. One thing I did notice and not sure what the name for these are, but the handrails going back into the front has very small female plugs which came loose and dropped off. Had to take apart and put back. Also aligning the front handrails back into these plugs is the only thing one needs to be aware of. The next time I took this loco apart to work smoke unit, the whole procedure took less then 1/2 hour.

Just to let you know,  there are NO dumb questions in this - we all get stumped from time to time!

That's  a beautiful locomotive you have there and I hope you find an easy solution.

Here are some pics that might help. I recall there are only 4 screws, 2 near the back corners, and 2 at the front. The pilot truck can stay in place. The internals are quite simple as there are no electronics in the conventional version, which is what I think you have, correct? All inter wiring has connectors as you can see.

These are one of K-Lines best offerings IMO, great engine. I have since converted mine to PS-2 and it is one of my favorite runners. Sees lots of track time. 

Rod

Rod Stewart posted:

These are one of K-Lines best offerings IMO, great engine. I have since converted mine to PS-2 and it is one of my favorite runners. Sees lots of track time. 

Rod

Yes it is the conventional version, although I do believe it has some type of rail-sounds system in it. It attempts to start chuffing but cuts off rather quick. Im currently not sure if that’s due to it not moving or if that’s another issue as it doesn’t make any sounds at idle. I’ll figure that out after I get it running smooth again! And I agree that K-Line did a wonderful job on this Hudson. I’d like to eventually convert mine over to a updated system with some fancy bells and whistles (I’m becoming a HUGE sucker for fan driven smoke units) but I’ll stick to learning the basics for now. 

Thanks for the pictures and info everyone! I thought there would be a lot more under there! I’ll put it under today and hopefully will chime back in with a once again running locomotive!

Just a thought, the smoke unit is a plunger style operated by an eccentric off the front set of drivers. If the plunger is seized up, from not being run in a while, that would surely be a problem. 

Rod

Rod Stewart posted:

Just a thought, the smoke unit is a plunger style operated by an eccentric off the front set of drivers. If the plunger is seized up, from not being run in a while, that would surely be a problem. 

Rod

Good thinking. Had that happen to an engine with the plunger type puffer. Ran jerky, but that was so long ago, but your post brought it back.

I’ll keep an eye out for that, could very well be a possibility as it sat for a while! Thanks!

MADGRTY,

   I have the same engine, converted it over to ERR TMCC and RS.  A great engine, the most detailed I have seen.  Looking at the pictures you posted, it appears the right side eccentric crank rod may be interfering with the main rod.  Perhaps it is the angle of the pic, or shadows, but check them all closely.  I also have the scale K Line Berk, St. Fe, and I had one bend on me while running, came to immediate stop.  Took a little while to see what was wrong, it was so slight, but did bind up the running gears.  And when I saw the screw had loosened and back out...…..!!

Jesse   TCA

Well after getting the locomotive apart, everything looks alright. Motor was tight, plunger was free of sticking, I checked the pistons and rods again and that all still seems fine. I’m starting to wonder if it’s somewhere in the drive axles causing the issues. Now that it’s apart and I can turn the wheels by hand, it feels like the middle wheel set is where the resistance is 

The center wheelset is doing all the work. Any resistence due to rods binding or in the smoke lever will be felt when you try and turn the center drivers.

Remove the screws from the eccentrics and pull the rods off the center drivers.

Then turn the individual wheelsets. Also move the main rod by hand and make sure its not binding on the guides.

Pete

One other thing you might try. Clean all the old grease out,and look for something binding the gears, also check for crud under smoke cam.

Maybe try putting the motor back in and run it with the shell off. This might turn up something.

I have this model and love it. Just an observation, your picture from above make it look as though the gauge of the middle driver is considerably tighter to the frame than the other drivers. That might be your bind. I'm assuming you took off the rods so it would freewheel.

Good Luck !

Just curious - when it "binds", does the headlamp remain on? Does it get dim? Any chance you've measured the current draw before and after the "bind"? If you are indeed experiencing mechanical binding, I would expect the  headlamp to get slightly dimmer, the current draw would suddenly increase, and the motor might make an audible humming sound. 

If, on the other hand, your problem is electrical in nature, there could be a couple of things that happen depending on where the electrical fault is occurring: 1) the headlight goes out completely as the bind occurs, or 2) the headlight remains bright and unchanged, but the motor is completely silent, and not mechanically bound up anywhere. 

The reason I brought this up is that an intermittent electrical connection could be a possible reason your chuff sound quits abruptly. So can a mechanical bind, but I don't think the electrical issue has been eliminated yet.

If none of the scenarios above are occurring, I would return to my hunt for a mechanical issue.

George

I ended up falling asleep before getting any of the drive rods disconnected, as far as the electrical side of it goes the motor would hum a little louder when it binds up but I would assume that is only because it’s load increased. Since I can feel it in the wheelset with the motor out of the way I believe it is somewhere in the axles or drive rods, I’ll find out today after I separate the drive rods from the wheels so I can get a feel there

So did this engine run OK when you last put it away in storage? Or is this the first time it has been run? If it ran OK previously, then obviously something has changed. Did it get accidentally dropped such that an axle could be bent? You said that with the motor removed the drivers still bind, so the motor is not likely the offender.

When you get the rods off, if the center drivers are still sticking, maybe something is binding the worm driven gear inside its casing. Rotate slowly and examine each gear valley for something foreign. Or perhaps something has been picked up off the track and is jamming between one of the drivers and the frame. Maybe something is wrapped around an axle at one of the bronze bushings. Watch carefully as you rotate each set of drivers to see that no axle is bent, or a wheel is wobbling. Try pushing it back and forth on a piece of track and see if there is any noticeable unevenness. It should obviously be very smooth.

If all wheels turn freely with the rods off, then you obviously have a main rod or side rod binding somewhere. Try reassembling each one, one at a time to see where the binding is coming from. If you find a tight rod on its bushing bolt, perhaps the driver quartering is not perfect. A tiny bit of reaming the hole in the rod with a rat tail file should relieve it. Check the crossheads for ease of motion on their slides. For most of us trying to re-quarter the drivers is not a doable option.

Rod

I personally have never run the engine before. I bought it and it sat for a while until I got around to setting things up to do some test runs and maintenence here. Fingers crossed that it does not need to be re-quartered! I’ll be home in a little and will be able to disassemble it the rest of the way. 

Is there any way to measure the driver quartering? 

She’s running smooth again! One of the simulated bolt on brakes was dragging (and effectively doing its job on the traction tire). I’m assuming the previous owner replaced the traction tires at some point and didn’t space the brakes away from the wheel when he bolted them back on. Such a simple fix. I was thinking of mechanical hardware being the issue the whole time! 

Now if I could just get the red marker lights on the tender to work again

Glad to hear that! Ya gotta like easy fixes. Hope she runs well from here on. 

Rod

I like the easy fixes. It never fails I always completely overlook it and mess with everything else first though. 😂

I would like to try converting it over to TMCC with railsounds and a e-fan smoker eventually. It really is a beautiful locomotive. Just could use some updating!

You should be able to upgrade it using ERR components. Lots of folks here do that with great results. grj would likely be able to do that for you. They are a great locomotive. Only issue I have read is the motors can overheat and burn out if they are pulling long consists for extended periods. Never had a problem with mine though. Enjoy!

Rod

I've done a number of K-Line locomotives, including several Hudsons.  With the MTH fan driven smoke and cruise control, they're really nice pieces.

Great to hear you found the issue and corrected.  I really like mine, it is very detailed and a great runner.  With the upgrade I did with ERR CC and RS, it is all the better.  Yes, as grj states, the MTH smoke unit is a very good addition, I use the older PS1 type from MTH I have/had and they fit in fine, smoke like.. well... MTH do.

Jesse   TCA

Now, if I can just find a Weaver St Fe Blue Goose for upgrade with ERR CC and RS...…    Will be an excellent "finishing touch" to my Santa Fe roster.

Jesse   TCA

Good to hear it was something so simple.